Newbie question: replacing wheelset



R

Rajah

Guest
I'd like to replace my wheelset of my Trek 1000.

I see a lot of specs in the catalogs for manufactured wheelsets, like:
* 26.5mm wide
* 700c
* alloy hub with 36, 14 gauge, Wheelsmith stainless steel spokes in a
3x pattern.
* 8/9 speed Shimano cassette compatible.
* 132.5mm rear axle spacing to fit both 130 and 135mm spaced frames.
* Front spacing is standard 100mm.
* Drilled for schrader valves.

I have an 8 speed cassette. Will any width do? Will any spoke pattern
do? Are these standard front and rear spacing? I see a lot of 700c, so
I'm guessing that the size is also standard.

Thanks for the advice.
 
Rajah wrote:
> I'd like to replace my wheelset of my Trek 1000.
>
> I see a lot of specs in the catalogs for manufactured wheelsets, like:
> * 26.5mm wide
> * 700c
> * alloy hub with 36, 14 gauge, Wheelsmith stainless steel spokes in a
> 3x pattern.
> * 8/9 speed Shimano cassette compatible.
> * 132.5mm rear axle spacing to fit both 130 and 135mm spaced frames.
> * Front spacing is standard 100mm.
> * Drilled for schrader valves.
>
> I have an 8 speed cassette. Will any width do? Will any spoke pattern
> do? Are these standard front and rear spacing? I see a lot of 700c, so
> I'm guessing that the size is also standard.
>
> Thanks for the advice.

You're presumably looking for cheap wheels? The ones you describe
sound really generic (no-name hub, wide rim, and silly spacing).
They'll work okay on your Trek 1000, but they sound like they might be
of very low quality... do you have a link? Why do you need new wheels,
and how do you ride?

-Vee
 
"Rajah" wrote:

> I'd like to replace my wheelset of my Trek 1000.
>
> I see a lot of specs in the catalogs for manufactured wheelsets, like:
> * 26.5mm wide
> * 700c
> * alloy hub with 36, 14 gauge, Wheelsmith stainless steel spokes in a
> 3x pattern.
> * 8/9 speed Shimano cassette compatible.
> * 132.5mm rear axle spacing to fit both 130 and 135mm spaced frames.
> * Front spacing is standard 100mm.
> * Drilled for schrader valves.
>
> I have an 8 speed cassette. Will any width do? Will any spoke pattern
> do? Are these standard front and rear spacing? I see a lot of 700c, so
> I'm guessing that the size is also standard.

Your Trek 1000 almost certainly has 130 mm rear spacing and 100 mm front
spacing. I'd recommend 32 or 36 spoke wheels and 3X lacing. Rim width should
be compatible with your tires. See:
http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width

Butted spokes make a more durable wheel than plain gauge. Rims with sockets
(sometimes called double eyelets) are less likely to allow a spoke to "pull
through." Above all, the quality of the build is what matters.

For more info see:
http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#materials

Art Harris
 
You'd probably get better answers if you mentioned why you want to
replace these wheels.

Rajah wrote:
> I'd like to replace my wheelset of my Trek 1000.
>
> I see a lot of specs in the catalogs for manufactured wheelsets, like:
> * 26.5mm wide
> * 700c
> * alloy hub with 36, 14 gauge, Wheelsmith stainless steel spokes in a
> 3x pattern.
> * 8/9 speed Shimano cassette compatible.
> * 132.5mm rear axle spacing to fit both 130 and 135mm spaced frames.
> * Front spacing is standard 100mm.
> * Drilled for schrader valves.
>
> I have an 8 speed cassette. Will any width do? Will any spoke pattern
> do? Are these standard front and rear spacing? I see a lot of 700c, so
> I'm guessing that the size is also standard.
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
 
Rajah,

What do you need or hope to acomplish by replacing the wheels?

Javier
 
Rajah wrote:
> I'd like to replace my wheelset of my Trek 1000.
>
> I see a lot of specs in the catalogs for manufactured wheelsets, like:
> * 26.5mm wide
> * 700c
> * alloy hub with 36, 14 gauge, Wheelsmith stainless steel spokes in a
> 3x pattern.
> * 8/9 speed Shimano cassette compatible.
> * 132.5mm rear axle spacing to fit both 130 and 135mm spaced frames.
> * Front spacing is standard 100mm.
> * Drilled for schrader valves.
>
> I have an 8 speed cassette. Will any width do? Will any spoke pattern
> do? Are these standard front and rear spacing? I see a lot of 700c, so
> I'm guessing that the size is also standard.
>
> Thanks for the advice.

Not trying to sell you anything but do you have a good bike shop
nearby, one that won't just try to sell ya something, to talk to? Many
will give lots of free advice, and not just be spring loaded to 'buy a
new Trek' type respnse. Gotta ask what's wrong with the wheels ya got
tho? What problem are you trying to siolve, what question are you
trying to answer?
 
I ride 15 miles twice a week, with an occasional 50 mile ride. All
asphalt surface with an occasional crack or railroad track.

I need to replace the back wheel because I broke some spokes, replaced
them, and they promptly broke again. I had a bike shop replace them,
and the when the mechanic predicted that they would not last too long.

I thought it would make sense to replace the front wheel at the same
time, which is why I'm looking for a wheelset.
 
Back wheel has a distinct wobble to it, that was not fixed after
replacing and retensioning spokes. The mechanic thought it was on its
last legs.

I would like to keep up a little better with the amateur group ("for
the love of it") that I biked with fairly regularly until I tore my
achilles tendon. (I would get dropped about halfway through the 90
minute ride.) I think that upgrading my wheelset may help this for
mechanical and aerodynamic reasons. Of course, upgrading my ticker
would help too, but I prefer to do by working my legs instead of
surgery.
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email protected]>,
Rajah <[email protected]> wrote:
>I ride 15 miles twice a week, with an occasional 50 mile ride. All
>asphalt surface with an occasional crack or railroad track.
>
>I need to replace the back wheel because I broke some spokes, replaced
>them, and they promptly broke again. I had a bike shop replace them,
>and the when the mechanic predicted that they would not last too long.

_ That sounds like a bent rim to me. All you really need to do is
replace the rim. Even cheap hubs last a long long time if
reasonably well maintained, you'd likely go through 2 or 3 rims
before your hubs needed replacing due to wear.


The mechanic should have told you something like

"In order to true up this wheel I had to put uneven tension on
the spokes, they won't last very long. I could replace the rim
and rebuild the wheel for $$, but that's almost the price of a
replacemant wheel."

>
>I thought it would make sense to replace the front wheel at the same
>time, which is why I'm looking for a wheelset.
>

_ I don't see any reason to do that. What you really need is a
new bike shop. A new wheel might turn out to be cheaper than
fixing your old wheel, but the shop should at least present that to
you as an option.

_ Booker C. Bense


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Booker C. Bense wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Rajah <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I ride 15 miles twice a week, with an occasional 50 mile ride. All
> >asphalt surface with an occasional crack or railroad track.
> >
> >I need to replace the back wheel because I broke some spokes, replaced
> >them, and they promptly broke again. I had a bike shop replace them,
> >and the when the mechanic predicted that they would not last too long.
>
> _ That sounds like a bent rim to me. All you really need to do is
> replace the rim. Even cheap hubs last a long long time if
> reasonably well maintained, you'd likely go through 2 or 3 rims
> before your hubs needed replacing due to wear.
>
>
> The mechanic should have told you something like
>
> "In order to true up this wheel I had to put uneven tension on
> the spokes, they won't last very long. I could replace the rim
> and rebuild the wheel for $$, but that's almost the price of a
> replacemant wheel."
>
> >
> >I thought it would make sense to replace the front wheel at the same
> >time, which is why I'm looking for a wheelset.
> >
>
> _ I don't see any reason to do that. What you really need is a
> new bike shop. A new wheel might turn out to be cheaper than
> fixing your old wheel, but the shop should at least present that to
> you as an option.
>
> _ Booker C. Bense
>
>
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I don't see why you're being hard on the shop. All we have is a brief
usenet post that wasn't even about a bike shop in the first place. For
all we know, the shop told him the stuff you just said. And the
problem isn't a bent rim at this point; the spokes are failing.
Replacing the rim won't fix that.

-Vee
 
Booker C. Bense wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Rajah <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I ride 15 miles twice a week, with an occasional 50 mile ride. All
> >asphalt surface with an occasional crack or railroad track.
> >
> >I need to replace the back wheel because I broke some spokes, replaced
> >them, and they promptly broke again. I had a bike shop replace them,
> >and the when the mechanic predicted that they would not last too long.
>
> _ That sounds like a bent rim to me. All you really need to do is
> replace the rim. Even cheap hubs last a long long time if
> reasonably well maintained, you'd likely go through 2 or 3 rims
> before your hubs needed replacing due to wear.
>
>
> The mechanic should have told you something like
>
> "In order to true up this wheel I had to put uneven tension on
> the spokes, they won't last very long. I could replace the rim
> and rebuild the wheel for $$, but that's almost the price of a
> replacemant wheel."

Why just throw the hub away? A good replacement rear wheel for this
gent is one made by a good wheelbuilder, not another machine built
wheel that may or may not be tensioned, trued, rounded, dished and
stress relieved by the bike shop delivering it.

The idea is reliability, not just price.

>
> >
> >I thought it would make sense to replace the front wheel at the same
> >time, which is why I'm looking for a wheelset.
> >
>
> _ I don't see any reason to do that. What you really need is a
> new bike shop. A new wheel might turn out to be cheaper than
> fixing your old wheel, but the shop should at least present that to
> you as an option.
>
> _ Booker C. Bense
>
>
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> Version: 2.6.2
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> =k0/K
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email protected]>,
Vee <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>I don't see why you're being hard on the shop. All we have is a brief
>usenet post that wasn't even about a bike shop in the first place. For
>all we know, the shop told him the stuff you just said. And the
>problem isn't a bent rim at this point; the spokes are failing.
>Replacing the rim won't fix that.

_ I'd be money it would, however when you replace a rim you
generally replace all the spokes[1]. That and the labor will
likely cost more than a replacement wheel, but he might end
up with a wheel that will go thousands of miles without truing.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- well I don't on my own wheels, but I don't know of any
reputable wheelbuilder that will provide a guarantee of their
work unless they replace the spokes when installing a new
rim.

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Booker C. Bense wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Vee <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> I don't see why you're being hard on the shop. All we have is a brief
>>> usenet post that wasn't even about a bike shop in the first place. For
>>> all we know, the shop told him the stuff you just said. And the
>>> problem isn't a bent rim at this point; the spokes are failing.
>>> Replacing the rim won't fix that.
>
> _ I'd be money it would, however when you replace a rim you
> generally replace all the spokes[1]. That and the labor will
> likely cost more than a replacement wheel, but he might end
> up with a wheel that will go thousands of miles without truing.

Isn't the real problem that you need to do (or have the LBS do) a good
job tensioning and stress-relieving whatever wheel you end up with? I
don't think it matters much whether you or the OP pays to get a new
wheel or pays to replace a bunch of spokes. A new mail-order wheel will
work trouble free for a few miles (200-2000?) before the same problem
recurs. The fact that more spokes broke after replacement means the LBS
didn't do a good job on that wheel, and probably doesn't know how to.

Given that situation, I'd recommend getting the latest batch of broken
spokes replaced, get a spoke wrench and maybe a truing stand, get
Jobst's book, and doing it yourself.


Pat
 
On 24 Apr 2006 10:21:14 -0700, "Rajah" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Back wheel has a distinct wobble to it, that was not fixed after
>replacing and retensioning spokes. The mechanic thought it was on its
>last legs.
>
>I would like to keep up a little better with the amateur group ("for
>the love of it") that I biked with fairly regularly until I tore my
>achilles tendon. (I would get dropped about halfway through the 90
>minute ride.) I think that upgrading my wheelset may help this for
>mechanical and aerodynamic reasons. Of course, upgrading my ticker
>would help too, but I prefer to do by working my legs instead of
>surgery.

The rear wheel obviously will need to be replaced if it wasn't
possible to get it trued, but you might want to give it a little tweak
yourself just to see if it's really all that hopeless. If the wheel's
toast, then you're already shopping for a replacement, and it's just a
matter of choosing the one that will work for you. For a variety of
reasons, I'd stay with 32 or 36 spokes. Aerodynamic rims tend to
weigh more than conventional designs, but if your terrain is flat, I
see no reason to avoid them, and they're generally sturdier than
non-aero rims (though there are exceptions). As a second possible
solution, consider just buying a replacement rim (and spokes, if
appropriate) and lacing it up yourself; this isn't rocket science, and
you'll gain the knowledge of how to true a wheel in the process.

OTOH, if you're pretty sure that new Toy Effect will make you enough
faster to be able to avoid getting dropped, well, have at it.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
Pat Lamb wrote:
> Booker C. Bense wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Vee <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>> I don't see why you're being hard on the shop. All we have is a brief
> >>> usenet post that wasn't even about a bike shop in the first place. For
> >>> all we know, the shop told him the stuff you just said. And the
> >>> problem isn't a bent rim at this point; the spokes are failing.
> >>> Replacing the rim won't fix that.
> >
> > _ I'd be money it would, however when you replace a rim you
> > generally replace all the spokes[1]. That and the labor will
> > likely cost more than a replacement wheel, but he might end
> > up with a wheel that will go thousands of miles without truing.
>
> Isn't the real problem that you need to do (or have the LBS do) a good
> job tensioning and stress-relieving whatever wheel you end up with? I
> don't think it matters much whether you or the OP pays to get a new
> wheel or pays to replace a bunch of spokes. A new mail-order wheel will
> work trouble free for a few miles (200-2000?) before the same problem
> recurs. The fact that more spokes broke after replacement means the LBS
> didn't do a good job on that wheel, and probably doesn't know how to.

The fact that more spokes broke after some were replaced tells us his
wheel is kaput, not that the shop did a bad job. Stress-relieving the
wheel at this point probably won't help anything. If he's broken more
than one or two spokes, he'll break more.

> Given that situation, I'd recommend getting the latest batch of broken
> spokes replaced, get a spoke wrench and maybe a truing stand, get
> Jobst's book, and doing it yourself.

Replacing more spokes is very likely futile, unless he replaces every
old spoke on the wheel.

-Vee
 
Booker C. Bense wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Vee <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >I don't see why you're being hard on the shop. All we have is a brief
> >usenet post that wasn't even about a bike shop in the first place. For
> >all we know, the shop told him the stuff you just said. And the
> >problem isn't a bent rim at this point; the spokes are failing.
> >Replacing the rim won't fix that.
>
> _ I'd be money it would, however when you replace a rim you
> generally replace all the spokes[1]. That and the labor will
> likely cost more than a replacement wheel, but he might end
> up with a wheel that will go thousands of miles without truing.
>
> _ Booker C. Bense
>
> [1]- well I don't on my own wheels, but I don't know of any
> reputable wheelbuilder that will provide a guarantee of their
> work unless they replace the spokes when installing a new
> rim.

Now you do-If we built a wheel, new spokes and rim and he goes out and
kills the rim, and wants us to rebuild it, same rim, we reuse the
spokes and guarantee the wheel for the useful life of the rim.....
>
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On 26 Apr 2006 05:21:00 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Booker C. Bense wrote:

>> [1]- well I don't on my own wheels, but I don't know of any
>> reputable wheelbuilder that will provide a guarantee of their
>> work unless they replace the spokes when installing a new
>> rim.
>
>Now you do-If we built a wheel, new spokes and rim and he goes out and
>kills the rim, and wants us to rebuild it, same rim, we reuse the
>spokes and guarantee the wheel for the useful life of the rim.....

Great, that's one out of, what, 100s of thousands of shops?

Jasper
 
Rajah wrote:
> I thought it would make sense to replace the front wheel at the same
> time, which is why I'm looking for a wheelset.

The rear wheel goes thru a lot of stress when compared to the front
wheel. You can tell that from the fact the front tires last almost three
times that of the rear ones. Rear is where your pedaling gets converted
into bike movement and also the rear wheel carries about two-thirds of
the weight of the rider - when in seated position.

So, i do not think it would make sense to change a perfect front wheel
just because you are changing the rear wheel. I am not sure whether the
fashion police would agree on mismatching wheels though.

+ravi
 
Rajah wrote:
> I'd like to replace my wheelset of my Trek 1000.
>
> I see a lot of specs in the catalogs for manufactured wheelsets, like:
> * 26.5mm wide

Width of the rim determines the width of the tires you can mount on
them. Wider tires are more comfortable to ride on, but at the cost of
more friction.

> * 700c

This is this the diameter of the rim - which should be the same as the
size of your tire. If you currently have 700c wheels, please replace
them with 700c. Changing to 650c would require tweaking with the brakes
so as to make sure that the brake pads line up with braking surface of
the rims.

> * alloy hub with 36, 14 gauge, Wheelsmith stainless steel spokes in a
> 3x pattern.

hubs are important. A good quality hub can roll smoothly for a long
time. Generally Shimano 105/Ultegra hubs are good. Generic hubs can last
a long time as well, but would require good maintenance.

3x (cross-3) pattern is a found on most reliable/strong wheels. 3x is
not really needed in the front wheel - most of the newer front wheels
comes with radial spokes.

> * 8/9 speed Shimano cassette compatible.

If your current cassette is Shimano 9Sp. make sure the hub is compatible
with. If you are planning for an upgrade to 10Sp later, go for a 9/10
Speed compatible hubs.

> * 132.5mm rear axle spacing to fit both 130 and 135mm spaced frames.

most road bikes have 130mm rear drop out spacing. MTBs have 135 and i
think tandems have 145mm spacing.

> * Front spacing is standard 100mm.

Almost all bikes have 100m front dropout spacing.

> * Drilled for schrader valves.

If you are currently using Presta tubes, then why go for Schrader ??
Most road bikes have presta type valves.

> I have an 8 speed cassette. Will any width do?

It depends on what tire widths you normally use. refer:
http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#width


> Will any spoke pattern do?

I think strength of a wheel is a combination of (rim, spoke, spoke
pattern, hub and the builder). Generally speaking higher the cross, the
more stronger it is. Stronger in terms or rotational stress ?

> Are these standard front and rear spacing?

100mm on front is standard for ever.
130mm is a standard on recent bikes. So, refer your bike's specification
or just measure the rear drop out spacing.

> I see a lot of 700c, so
> I'm guessing that the size is also standard.

there are two sizes that are common now - 700c and 650c. You could still
find some 27" and 26" as well. I would simply look at the specification
of the tires and find what you need.

A comprehensive website is sheldonbrown.com

If you want to build your own wheel, it is pretty straight forward:
http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

+ravi
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
Ravi <[email protected]> wrote:


[...]

> I think strength of a wheel is a combination of (rim, spoke, spoke
> pattern, hub and the builder). Generally speaking higher the cross, the
> more stronger it is. Stronger in terms or rotational stress ?

This is not true. Hub flanges are weaker when the spoke
pulls radially. Some hub flanges will fail with radial
spoking. The cross pattern is chosen so that the spokes
leave the hub flange as near tangentially as possible.
Crossing number increases with the number of spokes,
decreases with increasing hub flange diameter, increases
with increasing wheel diameter.

[...]

--
Michael Press
 
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