Odd interaction with a road rager



"Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote
> On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 21:22:39 GMT, "Pete"
<ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com>
> wrote:
>
> > blah, blah, blah
>
> >[not that this will have any effect on your misconceptions]
>
> No misconceptions.
>

Nor any rebuttal. Just mindless drivel.

Pete
 
"Zoot Katz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It's a diversion so the electorate doesn't begin to ask the hard
> questions. Keep up the stream of blather so nobody thinks about the
> 1000+ dead US troops in this latest illegal war.
Except that it isn't illegal.
 
Pete wrote:

>
>
> Would you belittle vast majority of military personnel
> (Active/Guard/Reserve) at the time that did not see time in SouthEast Asia?
> (Probably)

My family includes a multi-wounded, combat decorated, Viet Nam 'copter
duty vet.

He was not the lucky one in the family. His duty left him some deep
scars. He doesn't talk about it much, and when he does, it's a very
quiet, serious conversation.

His take on the Guard duty Bush did:

"****. It was standing room only to get in the Guard in those days.
The guys that made it were the ones with connections. It was all about
money and connections."

And later in the conversation, he said "How do you think the guy got
into Yale?"

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
 
Frank Krygowski wrote:
> Pete wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Would you belittle vast majority of military personnel
>> (Active/Guard/Reserve) at the time that did not see time in
>> SouthEast Asia? (Probably)
>
> My family includes a multi-wounded, combat decorated, Viet Nam 'copter
> duty vet.
>
> He was not the lucky one in the family. His duty left him some deep
> scars. He doesn't talk about it much, and when he does, it's a very
> quiet, serious conversation.
>
> His take on the Guard duty Bush did:
>
> "****. It was standing room only to get in the Guard in those days.
> The guys that made it were the ones with connections. It was all
> about money and connections."
>
> And later in the conversation, he said "How do you think the guy got
> into Yale?"

Well, he earned the right to his opinion, at least. Don't forget that Bush
was (I believe) 3 years behind Kerry. The war and draft were much different
in, say, 1968 and '71. Who's to say what Kerry would have done later, as
HIS views on the war obviously changed dramatically by then. (Also, he
*did* enlist in the Naval Reserve I believe, which also wasn't a slam dunk
to go to VN and/or see combat. He had connections, too.)

I've got a feeling if Bush knew he'd run for President some day, he'd have
found a way to go to VN for 4 months, too -- and also with a film crew to
document it -- but probably wouldn't have betrayed the POWs /still back
there/ upon his return. (John McCain said as much in 1973, but he won't
repeat it now in order to be "VNC".)

Bill "it's Kerry's 30+ years AFTER Viet Nam that warrant scrutiny" S.
 
"S o r n i" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Bill "it's Kerry's 30+ years AFTER Viet Nam that warrant scrutiny" S.

Exactly.
"What have you done for me lately?"

Pete
 
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 22:42:56 GMT, "Pete" <ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com>
wrote:


>Nor any rebuttal. Just mindless drivel.


End of the day?

Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war zone.
 
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 06:25:17 GMT, "Pete" <ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com>
wrote:

>
>"S o r n i" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> Bill "it's Kerry's 30+ years AFTER Viet Nam that warrant scrutiny" S.
>
>Exactly.
>"What have you done for me lately?"

End of the day?

Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war zone.
 
Mark Jones wrote:
>
> "Zoot Katz" <[email protected]> wrote
> > 1000+ dead US troops in this latest illegal war.

> Except that it isn't illegal.

I have serious Constitutional problems with the way Congress
deferred their authority to declare war, but that's on them,
not on Bush. (I've got plenty of other reasons to hate Bush,
almost many as Kerry has given us to hate him)

I'll let Representative Paul explain:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul57.html
 
S o r n i wrote:
>
> I've got a feeling if Bush knew he'd run for President some day, he'd have
> found a way to go to VN for 4 months, too -- and also with a film crew to
> document it

No film crew, just his own little movie camera. He was rich and
self promoting even back then. I think the Purple Hearts were
planned from the beginning to get him out ASAP. (remember the M*A*S*H
episode where Frank Burns put himself in for a PH when he broke
an egg and got a piece of shell in his eye?) Bob Dole has one PH,
awarded long before I was born. He can show you the damage on his
body if he wants (he's practically lost the use of a limb) Kerry
has three PHs, but can't show you a single scar. At least two were
for wounds that could be compared to cutting yourself while shaving.

Kerry's wartime service is best summed up as:
He didn't want to serve, he didn't serve any longer than he had to,
and he did his job to the best of his ability for as long as he
was stuck in it. That probably applies to nearly any kid that was
dragged into the mess in Vietnam back then. He just happened to be
better at not serving than most every "normal" kid, and not as good
at it as Bush or Gore. (as far as Clinton is concerned, if we don't
give college deferrments to Rhodes Scholars, who should we give them
to? Calling that creep a draft dodger is one of the few things said
about him that is a low blow.)
Mitch.
 
Pete wrote:
>
> "What have you done for me lately?"

Kerry?
Cashed paychecks for a job he's refused to perform for
the last two years. Oughta be arrested for embezzlement.
Only shows up in DC if there's a chance to vote to disarm
the populace, and throws a hissy fit if they don't redo
the Senate schedule to vote on gun control the day he
graces them with his presence.
Mitch.
 
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 07:50:37 -0400, Mitch Haley <[email protected]> wrote:

>S o r n i wrote:
>>
>> I've got a feeling if Bush knew he'd run for President some day, he'd have
>> found a way to go to VN for 4 months, too -- and also with a film crew to
>> document it
>
>No film crew, just his own little movie camera. He was rich and
>self promoting even back then.

Glad you realise some of shrub's failings too.

>Kerry's wartime service is best summed up as:
>
> Blah blah blah

End of the day?

Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war zone.
 
Mitch Haley wrote:
> Pete wrote:
>
>>"What have you done for me lately?"
>
>
> Kerry?
> Cashed paychecks for a job he's refused to perform for
> the last two years.

To be fair, shouldn't you also mention Bush's time on "vacation"?

Then add the time Bush has spent out campaigning for reelection (as
opposed to doing executive office work.)

Then throw in time spent on politics while he was _supposed_ to be
flying jets to protect Texas from invasion...




--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
 
Mitch Haley wrote:
> Pete wrote:
>
>>"What have you done for me lately?"
>
>
> Kerry?
> Cashed paychecks for a job he's refused to perform for
> the last two years.

To be fair, shouldn't you also mention Bush's time on "vacation"?

Then add the time Bush has spent out campaigning for reelection (as
opposed to doing executive office work.)

Then throw in time spent on politics while he was _supposed_ to be
flying jets to protect Texas from invasion...




--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
 
Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> Mitch Haley wrote:
> > Pete wrote:
> >
> >>"What have you done for me lately?"
> >
> >
> > Kerry?
> > Cashed paychecks for a job he's refused to perform for
> > the last two years.
>
> To be fair, shouldn't you also mention Bush's time on "vacation"?

I don't see where he's taken more than any other President, more
than FDR during WWII, less than FDR's pre-war days (but FDR liked to
go to the hot springs for his bad legs), probably a little less than
the postwar average. He's spent less time on international travel than
most anybody else in the jet age, but I don't know whether that's
a plus or a minus. At least he hasn't puked on any Prime Ministers
lately.

> Then add the time Bush has spent out campaigning for reelection (as
> opposed to doing executive office work.)

No more than Clinton in '96. You can't begin to compare it to
Kerry showing up 10-15 times a year to vote in the Senate.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn Bush worked more hours in
the last year than I have in the last two. I wish he'd gone
on vacation more, he's the most productive socialist this
country has seen since FDR, and FDR didn't do it in four years.


> Then throw in time spent on politics while he was _supposed_ to be
> flying jets to protect Texas from invasion...

I have no idea what he was doing then, do you?
We can guess it's not favorable, based on the disappearing records,
but it's just a guess.

Mitch.
 
Mitch Haley wrote:

>
> No film crew, just his own little movie camera. He was rich and
> self promoting even back then. I think the Purple Hearts were
> planned from the beginning to get him out ASAP. (remember the M*A*S*H
> episode where Frank Burns put himself in for a PH when he broke
> an egg and got a piece of shell in his eye?) Bob Dole has one PH,
> awarded long before I was born. He can show you the damage on his
> body if he wants (he's practically lost the use of a limb) Kerry
> has three PHs, but can't show you a single scar. At least two were
> for wounds that could be compared to cutting yourself while shaving.

You know, Mitch, I don't have much of a problem with most of your posts.
'Course, most of them are about bicycles, I think.

But what you are doing here is smarmy and dispicable and cowardly. You
should be ashamed of your stupidity, if not your blatant bias.

My dad was awarded a purple heart. The boat he was on was surprised by
an attack. One explosion broke both his feet, and he suffered other
damage as well, yet he was running around, working like hell to drag
other guys out of the water to save them. The effects of that attack
were serious in ways I don't want to enumerate - but he couldn't show
you a scar, either, while he was alive.

Our other family combat soldier (I'm trying to save his privacy here) is
much the same. Yeah, he's got at least one purple heart. No, there are
no scars. But his life would have been much different - much better -
if he didn't have to deal with the physical and emotional problems that
came from combat.

To think that only long-visible scars deserve recognition is blatantly
stupid.

To even _think_ that someone would go into combat and plot to get a
minor wound is such absolute nonsense - it doesn't surprise me that it
comes from someone who confuses a TV comedy with real life.

If you tell us how YOU managed to get into combat, plot your own minor
wounds, make it look like you saved other people's lives, and arrange
for your own citations, fine. That's up to you. In fact, you're more
than welcome to try now. I have a student who will soon be leaving for
either Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm sure he'd be happy for you to go in his
place.

But as I see it, you've probably had no combat experience beyond
computer games. You are insulting combat vets - including members of my
family - with assinine innuendo. You are making yourself look like a fool.

No, I take that back. You are demonstrating that you ARE a fool.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
 
On 2004-09-06, Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> But as I see it, you've probably had no combat experience beyond
> computer games. You are insulting combat vets - including members of my
> family - with assinine innuendo. You are making yourself look like a fool.
>
> No, I take that back. You are demonstrating that you ARE a fool.

Good post. The thing that disgusts me most about this is that we're
reliving a war fought how many years ago? My dad had just gotten back from
patrolling the Korean DMZ (he was almost sent to Vietnam, he wanted to go
in fact, but didn't get sent because he went legally blind) a few years
later I was born. I was born late enough that even though I know the
history of all wars, including Vietnam, well. I really don't remember much
about the 70s. It was all just Star Wars to me.

And now we're reliving the Vietnam War for one man, detail by excruciating
detail. And this makes me so angry, not so much because of the
politics of Kerry's service, but because of what this means to
other soldiers. That's where your post is right on. For my part,
though, I'm angry because I got to avoid this the first time around. Now
I'm having to relive it. And my opinion is, if we're going to redo the
Vietnam War all over again, let's redo the whole thing.

Let's investigate Nixon and if he extended the bombing too long for
political purposes. Same with Johnson. Kissinger gets sent to the Hague.
Macnamara gets sent to the Hague. If we're going to pick apart one man's
service with tweezers then let's pick apart the decisions of the officials
who sent them there. Because to do otherwise is unfair and disgusting.

Preston
 
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:46:43 GMT, "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote:


>>The little chimp, bush, whose daddy was pretty well placed at the time, funked
>>out of serving his country. He got off with a cushy number somewhere where he
>>didn't have to go anywhere near a war zone.
>
> Mr. Bush volunteered for service in Viet Nam and was turned
>down because the F-102 fighter he was flying was becoming obsolescent.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will cover the factual correctness of this
new factoid.

*VERY* strange that if the chimp ever volunteered for service this is not common
knowledge, since it would go some way to placating those who think he spent the
time when he ought to have been in 'nam, in a funk hole back home.

Still:

End of the day?

Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war zone.
 
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:49:46 GMT, "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote:

>>No, if he was following the correct rules of engagement, I would have called the
>>people who drafted those rules "babykillers".
>
> He performed just like a "good German", right? Nazi soldiers
>used that excuse.

He did what every good serviceman does. He implicitly trusted in the honor of
his country, and the ability of those placed in command over him to issue legal
orders.

He later, outsde the theatre of war, considered the actions that he had
undertaken at the behest of his country, and found the legality of those actions
wanting.

> If he witnessed all those atrocities, he should have
>reported them,

I thought that's what he did :)


Face it:

End of the day?

Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war zone.
 
"Frank Krygowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mitch Haley wrote:
>
> >
> You know, Mitch, I don't have much of a problem with most of your posts.
> 'Course, most of them are about bicycles, I think.
>
> But what you are doing here is smarmy and dispicable and cowardly. You
> should be ashamed of your stupidity, if not your blatant bias.
>
> My dad was awarded a purple heart. The boat he was on was surprised by
> an attack. One explosion broke both his feet, and he suffered other
> damage as well, yet he was running around, working like hell to drag
> other guys out of the water to save them. The effects of that attack
> were serious in ways I don't want to enumerate - but he couldn't show
> you a scar, either, while he was alive.
>
> Our other family combat soldier (I'm trying to save his privacy here) is
> much the same. Yeah, he's got at least one purple heart. No, there are
> no scars. But his life would have been much different - much better -
> if he didn't have to deal with the physical and emotional problems that
> came from combat.
>
> To think that only long-visible scars deserve recognition is blatantly
> stupid.
>
> To even _think_ that someone would go into combat and plot to get a
> minor wound is such absolute nonsense - it doesn't surprise me that it
> comes from someone who confuses a TV comedy with real life.
>
> If you tell us how YOU managed to get into combat, plot your own minor
> wounds, make it look like you saved other people's lives, and arrange
> for your own citations, fine. That's up to you. In fact, you're more
> than welcome to try now. I have a student who will soon be leaving for
> either Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm sure he'd be happy for you to go in his
> place.
>
> But as I see it, you've probably had no combat experience beyond
> computer games. You are insulting combat vets - including members of my
> family - with assinine innuendo. You are making yourself look like a
fool.
>
> No, I take that back. You are demonstrating that you ARE a fool.

Frank, I've personally known at least two former USAF members who purposely
self inflicted wounds to get out of their service contract.
Nothing so sinister as to self inflict to garner a Purple Heart, and pad the
resume, but simply to avoid coming back from Christmas leave. And this was
during peacetime, at nice, safe air bases in England and Louisiana.

One guy shot himself in the foot with a .22 rifle while home on leave, and
ended up pushing a broom in the barracks for a few months before being
kicked out. Don't remember what happened to the other guy.

Were Kerry's wounds plotted or self inflicted? Probably not. Were they very
minor? According to one doctor at the hospital, quite possibly. Were Purple
Hearts advantageous to his planned future political career? Definitely.

In any case, 'what have you done for me lately?' I have serious misgivings
on Bush's actions. I have more misgivings about Kerry, though.

For once, I sincerely agree with fmr Pres Clinton
[paraphrasing]
"Let's shut up about Vietnam experiences, and get on with things NOW"

Pete
 
"Zoot Katz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Both the neo-liberal and neo-conservative imperialist agendas should
> be abhorrent to anyone pretending to have a modicum of human decency.

So should the agenda of the Islamic terrorists, and then some.

Dave
 
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