Odd interaction with a road rager

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.soc' started by Ron McKinnon, Aug 31, 2004.

  1. Pete

    Pete Guest

    "Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:46:43 GMT, "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > Mr. Bush volunteered for service in Viet Nam and was turned
    > >down because the F-102 fighter he was flying was becoming obsolescent.

    >
    > I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will cover the factual correctness of

    this
    > new factoid.
    >
    > *VERY* strange that if the chimp ever volunteered for service this is not

    common
    > knowledge, since it would go some way to placating those who think he

    spent the
    > time when he ought to have been in 'nam, in a funk hole back home.


    It IS common knowledge to those who open their eyes, and actually delve into
    the subject.

    1Lt Bush inquired into the PALACE ALERT program. (a voluntary program
    whereby ANG pilots were assigned to SEA for a 3-6 month tour of duty) He was
    told he was not eligible, because he did not have enough flight hours.
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/09-13-99/vo15no19_bush.htm
    http://www.nationalreview.com/babbin/babbin200402190855.asp
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4271922/site/newsweek/

    Pete
     


  2. Pete

    Pete Guest

    "Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:46:43 GMT, "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > Mr. Bush volunteered for service in Viet Nam and was turned
    > >down because the F-102 fighter he was flying was becoming obsolescent.

    >
    > I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will cover the factual correctness of

    this
    > new factoid.
    >
    > *VERY* strange that if the chimp ever volunteered for service this is not

    common
    > knowledge, since it would go some way to placating those who think he

    spent the
    > time when he ought to have been in 'nam, in a funk hole back home.


    It IS common knowledge to those who open their eyes, and actually delve into
    the subject.

    1Lt Bush inquired into the PALACE ALERT program. (a voluntary program
    whereby ANG pilots were assigned to SEA for a 3-6 month tour of duty) He was
    told he was not eligible, because he did not have enough flight hours.
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/09-13-99/vo15no19_bush.htm
    http://www.nationalreview.com/babbin/babbin200402190855.asp
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4271922/site/newsweek/

    Pete
     
  3. Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke Guest

    "Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > End of the day?
    >
    > Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
    > Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war

    zone.

    We heard you the first, second, third and now the fourth time.

    End of your babble?

    Dave
     
  4. Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke Guest

    "Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > End of the day?
    >
    > Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
    > Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war

    zone.

    We heard you the first, second, third and now the fourth time.

    End of your babble?

    Dave
     
  5. Muttley

    Muttley Guest

    On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:47:43 -0700, "Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >
    >Blah, blah, blah



    End of the day?

    Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
    Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war zone.


    (It goes on juat as long as you want it to)
     
  6. Muttley

    Muttley Guest

    On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:45:57 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]_usaf.com>
    wrote:

    >It IS common knowledge to those who open their eyes, and actually delve into
    >the subject.
    >
    >1Lt Bush inquired into the PALACE ALERT program. (a voluntary program
    >whereby ANG pilots were assigned to SEA for a 3-6 month tour of duty)


    I don't want to tell you you're wrong, without any proof whatsoever.

    What I will say is that I find it *very* hard to believe that if this
    information was a matter of public record (which it would be if it existed), the
    chimp's team at the time of the last, closely fought election, wouldn't have
    made just the teeeeniest mention of it - all over every bit of media they could
    get to publish or broadcast it.

    So, let's just say I'm doubtful.



    End of the day?

    Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
    Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war zone.
     
  7. Rick

    Rick Guest

    ....stuff deleted
    >
    > To even _think_ that someone would go into combat and plot to get a
    > minor wound is such absolute nonsense - it doesn't surprise me that it
    > comes from someone who confuses a TV comedy with real life.
    >

    ....more deleted

    By the way, folks, the PBR's (aka. swift boats) posted the highest
    injury and mortality rates of the war. 4 months was a particularly long
    tour of duty on these craft due to the high mortality rates. Here is a
    quote from one commander:

    "McCann said Wednesday that he was shocked by the accusations. He
    couldn't believe the group was talking about the same man he served with
    in Vietnam in 1969; who joined him on missions in the Mekong Delta at a
    time when he said Navy swift-boat forces had an 85 percent chance of
    being killed or wounded."

    My father was in the navy in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. If he was alive,
    he would be calling Bush either AWOL, a deserter, or simply someone
    guilty of dereliction of duty for his absenses during active duty. He
    was able to do this simply because of his father's influence.

    I'm not saying that Kerry is god's gift to humanity, but you cannot
    question his war record. Anyone who crawled into one of those lumps of
    plastic is a hero, IMO.

    Rick
     
  8. Mitch Haley

    Mitch Haley Guest

    Muttley wrote:
    >
    > On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:47:43 -0700, "Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]
    > >
    > >Blah, blah, blah

    >
    > End of the day?
    >
    > Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
    > Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war zone.
    >


    So every person who disagrees with you gets his words changed to "blah, blah, blah"
    and you repeat the same pointless statement over and over again, until the
    rest of the world allows your statement to be the last word on the subject?
    Let me know when you graduate from 2nd grade.

    Mitch.
     
  9. Mitch Haley

    Mitch Haley Guest

    Frank Krygowski wrote:
    >
    > Mitch Haley wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > No film crew, just his own little movie camera. He was rich and
    > > self promoting even back then. I think the Purple Hearts were
    > > planned from the beginning to get him out ASAP. (remember the M*A*S*H
    > > episode where Frank Burns put himself in for a PH when he broke
    > > an egg and got a piece of shell in his eye?) Bob Dole has one PH,
    > > awarded long before I was born. He can show you the damage on his
    > > body if he wants (he's practically lost the use of a limb) Kerry
    > > has three PHs, but can't show you a single scar. At least two were
    > > for wounds that could be compared to cutting yourself while shaving.

    >
    > You know, Mitch, I don't have much of a problem with most of your posts.
    > 'Course, most of them are about bicycles, I think.
    >
    > But what you are doing here is smarmy and dispicable and cowardly. You
    > should be ashamed of your stupidity, if not your blatant bias.
    >


    What bias? I thought it pretty plain that I hate both of the
    Republicrat Party's candidates almost equally. You're as bad
    as Zaumen for accusing me of bias here. I really don't care
    much about their war records, it's Kerry's voting record for
    the last 30 years and Bush's record for the last 4 that disqualify
    them for Commander in Chief.

    Everything I said above has a fair bit of evidence to back it up.
    Two out of three wounds were patched with Band-Aids, one of those
    two also required tweezers to remove a foreign object (possibly
    grenade casing fragment) and I'm pretty sure JFK wouldn't have put
    in for PHs on them if he didn't intend to use the PHs to get out
    of combat. I never claimed he got himself injured on purpose, that
    was your idiotic straw man argument. (some have claimed that PH#1
    was unintentionally self-inflicted, as the fragment could well have
    been splash-back from the grenade launcher he was using)

    I just pointed out the fact that he was overly eager to apply for
    medals for himself. Comparing JFK's scratches to your relatives'
    serious wounds is a despicable insult to your relatives.

    JFK disputed his Army draft, then joined the Naval Reserves after
    the protest failed. I don't see how anybody could claim that he was
    more eager to see combat than GWB was.

    Mitch.
     
  10. Pete

    Pete Guest

    "Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:45:57 GMT, "Pete"

    <[email protected]_usaf.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >It IS common knowledge to those who open their eyes, and actually delve

    into
    > >the subject.
    > >
    > >1Lt Bush inquired into the PALACE ALERT program. (a voluntary program
    > >whereby ANG pilots were assigned to SEA for a 3-6 month tour of duty)

    >
    > I don't want to tell you you're wrong, without any proof whatsoever.


    google for bush + "palace alert"

    There is at least one pilot that specifically remembers he and 1Lt Bush
    talking to their commander about volunteering for the program. And being
    told they were still too junior.

    > What I will say is that I find it *very* hard to believe that if this
    > information was a matter of public record (which it would be if it

    existed), the
    > chimp's team at the time of the last, closely fought election, wouldn't

    have
    > made just the teeeeniest mention of it - all over every bit of media they

    could
    > get to publish or broadcast it.


    I take it you didn't bother to follow the links I posted.
    As for it being a 'matter of public record'...not every conversation you
    have with your commanding officer goes into a log somewhere, to be brought
    out 30 years later. Bush asked, was told he wasn't yet eligible. No
    'official' application, no written request.

    "Hey Boss...can I apply for this?"
    "No, you don't have enough flight hours."
    "OK"

    End of story.

    > So, let's just say I'm doubtful.


    Only because you choose to be.

    And in future, please do not denigrate service in the Reserve of National
    Guard. Especially for a fighter pilot during the Cold War. Remember...there
    was still a significant threat from the 'Evil Empire'. Many, many times did
    ADC aircraft (which includes Guard and Reserve) launch to intercept USSR
    bomber and recon aircraft exiting Cuba or going up and down the East Coast.
    The Guard and Reserve at the time were primary suppliers of such intercept
    flights.

    Much as the ANG is a major (primary?) supplier of Homeland Defense flights
    today.

    Pete
     
  11. "Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 16:00:41 GMT, "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>Bush 5 deferments
    > >>Kerry 2 tours of duty

    > >
    > > OK, where did you get THAT drivel? Mr. Bush didn't ask for,
    > >and didn't get any deferments.

    >
    > The little chimp, bush, whose daddy was pretty well placed at the time,

    funked
    > out of serving his country. He got off with a cushy number somewhere where

    he
    > didn't have to go anywhere near a war zone.


    Right bleat, wrong guys. Cheney had the deferments.

    Bush flew the F-102 in the TX Air National Guard. I know that he-man
    warriors like you consider the National Guard a chicken-shit assignment, but
    military aviation, in war and peace, kills people. Chimps don't fly
    fighters, especially F-102 fighters whose fatality rate per hour flown
    remains high among military aircraft.

    The shitstorm about Kerry's service in Vietnam is a distraction, and not the
    most serious thing wrong with him as a candidate. It's his record since his
    four months in Coastal Division 11 that everyone ought to be looking at --
    his votes consistently favored gutting our defense and intelligence assets,
    taking the money thus saved and buying votes to consolidate his power.

    His team (and yours) lost the Cold War -- no thanks to him and those like
    him -- and they have hopes that the country can be brought down by
    terrorism.
     
  12. "S o r n i" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Frank Krygowski wrote:
    > (Also, he
    > *did* enlist in the Naval Reserve I believe, which also wasn't a slam dunk
    > to go to VN and/or see combat. He had connections, too.)


    To be fair about it, Kerry DID volunteer for Swift boats -- which was
    well-known to be an assignment involving combat and its attendant danger.
    Joining the Naval Reserve bought you a year to stay home, during which time
    you went to an abbreviated boot camp. Active duty was active duty, and you
    went where you were sent and did as you were told -- unless you volunteered
    for a combat assignment. In my MOS, an entire A-school class was selected
    for assignment into an MOS that would yield a high probability of 13 months
    pounding the ground with Marines. Reserve or regular, the Navy didn't give
    a damn, they just assigned the whole company.

    >
    > I've got a feeling if Bush knew he'd run for President some day, he'd have
    > found a way to go to VN for 4 months, too -- and also with a film crew to
    > document it -- but probably wouldn't have betrayed the POWs /still back
    > there/ upon his return. (John McCain said as much in 1973, but he won't
    > repeat it now in order to be "VNC".)


    That's an accurate appraisal.
    >
    > Bill "it's Kerry's 30+ years AFTER Viet Nam that warrant scrutiny" S.


    And that's what's being missed. That, and the fact that Kerry doesn't
    believe in America's sovereignty as regards toeing the line of the UN -- an
    anachronistic and hopelessly corrupt organization from whom he'll seek
    permission to defend the American people.

    If he gets in, the world's best hope is that the Russians or the Israelis
    get pissed off enough to nuke the Hajj. Not a very appealing prospect.
    >
    >
     
  13. "Muttley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 22:42:56 GMT, "Pete"

    <[email protected]_usaf.com>
    > wrote:


    > End of the day?
    >
    > Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
    > Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war

    zone.

    Bush: no Bronze Star.
    Tim McVeigh: Bronze Star.

    Like Pete said: "What have you done for us LATELY?"

    Here's a rag. Wipe the purple kool-aid off your upper lip.
     
  14. "Mitch Haley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > I have serious Constitutional problems with the way Congress
    > deferred their authority to declare war, but that's on them,
    > not on Bush.


    How did the ground war in 1991 end after 100 hours?

    What U.N. resolutions were in place demanding that Iraq comply?

    What is the past tense of "cease-fire"?
     
  15. "Frank Krygowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > To be fair, shouldn't you also mention Bush's time on "vacation"?


    Yeah. He gets away from the phone, the reporters, the daily briefings, and
    most of all the "football" that connects him to the NCA.

    After all, all he has to do is leave Washington D.C. and all the pressure
    comes off. Pretty cushy job.

    I wonder how Kerry "radios in" his attendance at the Senate Intelligence
    Committee?
     
  16. "Preston Crawford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 2004-09-06, Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Good post.


    It was. There are a lot of wounds that make no marks but leave a lifetime
    of pain.

    > The thing that disgusts me most about this is that we're
    > reliving a war fought how many years ago?


    Who brought that up? And who stood on the stage of the DNC and said that,
    if we wanted to know about Kerry the man, all we had to do was ask the guys
    who'd served with him? And when they told us, who said, "Hey, no fair!"?

    > And now we're reliving the Vietnam War for one man, detail by excruciating
    > detail. And this makes me so angry, not so much because of the
    > politics of Kerry's service, but because of what this means to
    > other soldiers.


    Again -- who started it? After giving a sanctimonious speech during the
    first Clinton campaign stating that one's service, or non-service, in
    Vietnam should have no bearing on presidential politics all these years
    hence?

    AS it happens, I agree with you and with Kerry's utterances during the first
    Clinton campaign. It's Kerry's consistent anti-US military and anti-US
    intelligence actions since he served so honorably that speak so much louder
    than his words, and, in my estimation, make him an object of scorn. I would
    no more impugn his service than I would Frank's Dad's, or your uncle's.
    It's his actions since Coastal Division 11 that make him unfit to serve.
     
  17. Pete

    Pete Guest

    "Rick" <[email protected]> wrote

    >
    > By the way, folks, the PBR's (aka. swift boats) posted the highest
    > injury and mortality rates of the war. 4 months was a particularly long
    > tour of duty on these craft due to the high mortality rates.


    Actually, I think PBR's and 'Swift Boats' are two different classes
    PBR's are fiberglass, Swift Boats are aluminum

    Swift
    http://boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/2175/sort/1/cat/all/page/1
    http://pcf45.com/

    PBR
    http://www.hnsa.org/ships/pbrmkii-b.htm
    http://www.hnsa.org/ships/pbrmkii.htm

    Pete
     
  18. Mitch Haley wrote:

    > Frank Krygowski wrote:
    >
    >>Mitch Haley wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Kerry?
    >>>Cashed paychecks for a job he's refused to perform for
    >>>the last two years.

    >>
    >>To be fair, shouldn't you also mention Bush's time on "vacation"?

    >
    >
    > I don't see where he's taken more than any other President..


    You may not see that. But, OTOH, if you actually _look_, you may see.


    >>Then add the time Bush has spent out campaigning for reelection (as
    >>opposed to doing executive office work.)

    >
    >
    > No more than Clinton in '96.


    Right - so what _is_ the standard? Do you really figure someone will be
    a major party's official candidate for the presidency, yet spend 40
    hours per week in their day job?

    I think you should compare Kerry with, say, other senators running for
    the presidency, and with governors of large southern states running for
    the presidency.

    Or will you pretend W spent 40 hours per week in Austin in the summer of
    2000?


    --
    --------------------+
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
    replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
     
  19. Hijo de la Changa wrote:

    > ..[Kerry's]
    > votes consistently favored gutting our defense and intelligence assets...


    Oh, please.

    Have you checked into Cheney's record on this?

    --
    --------------------+
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
    replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
     
  20. Muttley

    Muttley Guest

    On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 21:13:22 GMT, "Hijo de la Changa"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Bush: no Bronze Star.
    >Tim McVeigh: Bronze Star.


    End of the day?

    Kerry: Put his life on the line serving his country in a war zone.
    Bush: Stayed home and let others risk and lose their lives in that war zone.
     
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