other uses for cardamom?



"Mark Thorson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "-L." wrote:
> >
> BTW, what I bought at the Pakistani food store under the name of "cardamom" was much different
> from a jar of some spice my mom bought when I was a kid, which I'm pretty sure was also sold as
> "cardamom". However, the stuff I bought were long green seed pods (about 20 mm x 5 mm x 2 mm) with
> a thin brittle skin containing spherical seeds like mustard. What my mom bought were roughly
> spherical off-white seed pods, about 10 mm in diameter, that were thick and soft, containing small
> dark seeds in the center. Is it possible that there's more than one spice called cardamom?

Yes, there are two types of cardamom, the "large" cardamom(badi elaichi in Hindi) and the "small"
cardamom(choti elaichi). I think the small variety is the true cardamom and is usually used in
sweets and such. The larger ones are spicy and used whole in dishes like biryani, pilaf, etc.

That said, whole cardamom can be stored forever(almost!) in the freezer.

- Kamala
 
il Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:01:16 GMT, smithfarms pure kona ha scritto:

> FYI The cardamom plants in my yard are ready to be harvested right now. The pods grow along shoots
> at the base of the plant and you pick each one off. The cardamom plant's flower looks like a
> ginger flower and the plant is indeed from the ginger (at least ornamental) family.
[snip]

What kind of climate do they need?

--
Cheers, Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]
 
smithfarms pure kona <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:57:42 -0800, [email protected] (Dan Abel) wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (-L.) wrote:
> >
> >> So, I bought a buttload of cardamom for a dessert I made last week (rava kassari). I'm thinking
> >> I won't be using a whole lot of this stuff over the next year or so, unless I can conjure up
> >> some good recipes. I don't want it to go to waste - it was pretty expensive. Any suggestions?
> >
> >
> >For a little change in the morning, I occasionally add some, along
> with a
> >stick of cinnamon, to my drip coffee maker.
>
> FYI The cardamom plants in my yard are ready to be harvested right now. The pods grow along shoots
> at the base of the plant and you pick each one off. The cardamom plant's flower looks like a
> ginger flower and the plant is indeed from the ginger (at least ornamental) family.
>
> I plan to dehydrate the "crop".
>
> aloha, Thunder http://www.smithfarms.com Farmers & Sellers of 100% Kona Coffee & other Great Stuff

Yeah, well, easy for you to say when you live in HI!! A little more difficult to do here in
the PNW...;)

Thanks to all for the responses!

-L.
 
"Kamala Ganesh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<KF%Rb.176329$xy6.835697@attbi_s02>...
> "Mark Thorson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > "-L." wrote:
> > >
> > BTW, what I bought at the Pakistani food store under the name of "cardamom" was much different
> > from a jar of some spice my mom bought when I was a kid, which I'm pretty sure was also sold as
> > "cardamom". However, the stuff I bought were long green seed pods (about 20 mm x 5 mm x 2 mm)
> > with a thin brittle skin containing spherical seeds like mustard. What my mom bought were
> > roughly spherical off-white seed pods, about 10 mm in diameter, that were thick and soft,
> > containing small dark seeds in the center. Is it possible that there's more than one spice
> > called cardamom?
>
> Yes, there are two types of cardamom, the "large" cardamom(badi elaichi in Hindi) and the "small"
> cardamom(choti elaichi). I think the small variety is the true cardamom and is usually used in
> sweets and such. The larger ones are spicy and used whole in dishes like biryani, pilaf, etc.
>
> That said, whole cardamom can be stored forever(almost!) in the freezer.
>
> - Kamala

Isn't the "large" cardamon, badi elaichi, also called "black" cardamom, and has a larger and black
or dark brown pod? I think that the grren-podded and white-podded cardamom Mark described are
actually the same thing -- what you call "small" or "true" cardamom -- and that the difference is
that the white ones have been bleached from their natural green color (purportedly at the expense of
some flavor, too). Also, I think the white cardamom tends to be used more by middle easterners,
whereas green is usually used by Indians.

Gernot Katzer's Spice Pages do make reference to two smaller, rounder varieties of cardamom, and
also mention that green pods are more fragrant than "yellow or white bleached ones." <http://www-
ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/Elet_car.html>

By the way, I notice that the Spice Pages give the Hebrew word backward (written from left to right)
or else transliterates it backward -- the transliteration he gives is "hel" but the Hebrew text
reads "leh." As if anyone else cares.

-bwg
 
On 29 Jan 2004 17:57:20 +1300, "Loki" <[email protected]> wrote:

>il Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:01:16 GMT, smithfarms pure kona ha scritto:
>
>> FYI The cardamom plants in my yard are ready to be harvested right now. The pods grow along
>> shoots at the base of the plant and you
pick
>> each one off. The cardamom plant's flower looks like a ginger
flower
>> and the plant is indeed from the ginger (at least ornamental)
family.
>[snip]
>
>What kind of climate do they need?

They grow here in South Kona, Hawaii at the 1800 foot altitude. Sub tropical is what they like.
Lowest cold temp of the year is about 50 and never gets to 90 on hot summer days. If you can grow
white ginger etc. you ought to be able to grow cardamom.

aloha, Thunder http://www.smithfarms.com Farmers & Sellers of 100% Kona Coffee & other Great Stuff
 
On 2004-01-29, Barry Grau <[email protected]> wrote:

> Isn't the "large" cardamon, badi elaichi, also called "black" cardamom, and has a larger and black
> or dark brown pod? I think that the grren-podded and white-podded cardamom Mark described are
> actually the same thing -- what you call "small" or "true" cardamom -- and that the difference is
> that the white ones have been bleached from their natural green color (purportedly at the expense
> of some flavor, too). Also, I think the white cardamom tends to be used more by middle easterners,
> whereas green is usually used by Indians.

That's what how our local Indian store owner refers to it, black cardamom and just cardamom (for the
green). The green is what most Westerners are familiar with. Black cardamom is not just bigger. It
has a comepletly different flavor from the green. While I love green cardamom, I very much dislike
black cardamom. I use cardamom in coffee and rice dishes. My favorite cardamom treat is cardamom
baklava. Cardamom is divine in honey.

nb
 
Howsabout some chai tea? That spice blend contains cardamom. Yummy! -Jen Half the people you know
are below average. -Steven Wright
 
After my afternoon glass of dago red I'm reading "other uses for condoms"

Drinking and bi-focals don't mix.

---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon
```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
 
Barry Grau wrote:

> I think that the grren-podded and white-podded cardamom Mark described are actually the same thing
> -- what you call "small" or "true" cardamom -- and that the difference is that the white ones have
> been bleached from their natural green color (purportedly at the expense of some flavor, too).

No way. The green cardamom are long, thin pods. The white cardamom were close to being spherical.
The green cardamom had a very thin skin -- paper thin. The white cardamom had a very thick skin --
about 1/3 the diameter of the pod.
 
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:28:30 GMT, Mark Thorson <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Barry Grau wrote:
>
>> I think that the grren-podded and white-podded cardamom Mark described are actually the same
>> thing -- what you call "small" or "true" cardamom -- and that the difference is that the white
>> ones have been bleached from their natural green color (purportedly at the expense of some
>> flavor, too).
>
>No way. The green cardamom are long, thin pods. The white cardamom were close to being spherical.
>The green cardamom had a very thin skin -- paper thin. The white cardamom had a very thick skin --
>about 1/3 the diameter of the pod.
>
>
I have the spherical. So then what is the "black"?

Aloha, Thunder http://www.smithfarms.com Farmers & Sellers of 100% Kona Coffee & other Great Stuff
 
smithfarms pure kona wrote:
>

> I have the spherical. So then what is the "black"?
>

Much bigger, much tougher, more oily and smokey smelling. I usually use these, whole, in meat
"curries". Might there be pictures at the Penzey's web site? blacksalt
 
il Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:04:43 GMT, smithfarms pure kona ha scritto:

> >What kind of climate do they need?
>
> They grow here in South Kona, Hawaii at the 1800 foot altitude. Sub tropical is what they like.
> Lowest cold temp of the year is about 50 and never gets to 90 on hot summer days. If you can grow
> white ginger etc. you ought to be able to grow cardamom.
>
> aloha, Thunder

Thanks for the info. Right now it's sub tropical, but it should be hot and searing, and then
freezing in winter (temperate) at about sea level. They'd probably need a glasshouse here. Pity.
--
Cheers, Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]
 
[email protected] (Barry Grau) wrote
> "Kamala Ganesh" <[email protected]> wrote

>>> However, the stuff I bought were long green seed pods (about 20 mm x 5 mm x 2 mm) with a thin
>>> brittle skin containing spherical seeds like mustard. What my mom bought were roughly spherical
>>> off-white seed pods, about 10 mm in diameter, that were thick and soft, containing small dark
>>> seeds in the center. Is it possible that there's more than one spice called cardamom?

There are indeed several varieties of (green) cardamom, with capsule length varying from approx 1 cm
to 2 cm. All these are green when fresh, but pale ochre when old. In my mind, the age of the
capsules is the most important quality parameter, but some books insist that the "rounder" Indian
varieties are better than the "elongated" Sri Lanka varieties. In South East Asia, there are closely
related species (not varieties) with very round pods that are considered inferior; unfortunately, I
have not ever tasted them.

> Gernot Katzer's Spice Pages do make reference to two smaller, rounder varieties of cardamom, and
> also mention that green pods are more fragrant than "yellow or white bleached ones."

The loss of green colour of the pods can have two reasons: Either they have been deliberately
bleached (for whatever reason escapes my mind), or they have been stored too long, or under bad
conditions. Cardamom pods must be protected from heat, light and oxygen.

In any case, the loss of colour coincides with a marked loss of flavour.

> By the way, I notice that the Spice Pages give the Hebrew word backward (written from left to
> right) or else transliterates it backward -- the transliteration he gives is "hel" but the Hebrew
> text reads "leh." As if anyone else cares.

Well, as the author i *do* care. I see a _lamed_ left of a _he_, and the name should be hel
(הל). It appears this way with Mozilla 1.3 and Internet Explorer 6; Opera 6.12, I have
to concede, renders the Hebrew words incorrectly. Is this the one you are using, too?

The markup basically is <SPAN lang="he" dir=rtl title="HL">&he;&lamed;</SPAN> (of course I have hex
codes instead of named entities).

Now I don't know Hebrew; I just lernt the alphabet for the purpose of my web site. I cannot draw
much information out of Hebrew web pages. Can you, as a more knowledgeable person, point me to any
page that is predomonantly in English (or any other language based on the Latin script), but has
interspersed Hebrew word correctly rendered on your browser?

Such pages as http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/charset/fontface-harmful.html
http://james.jlcarroll.net/symbolism/onycha.html all have their Hebrew quotes rendered wrongly by my
Opera. If you can find a better example, and it this can be made to run on standard-complying
browsers as well, I'll try to fix the problem.

--
Gernot Katzer Anharmonic Thermochemistry: http://bthec11.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer Everything about
Herbs & Spices: http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl
 
On 2004-01-30, Gernot Katzer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> There are indeed several varieties of (green) cardamom...

Oh fer cry'noutloud! Go out and buy a jar of Morton & Bassett cardamom and smash the pods till you
get some little black seeds and then crush them up to powder and put them in SOMETHING!! Oatmeal!
Hot chocolate! Yer old lady's ******, fer God's sake!! Just do it.

nb ...can't anyone do anything without permission, anymore?
 
[email protected] (Gernot Katzer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Barry Grau) wrote
>
> Well, as the author i *do* care. I see a _lamed_ left of a _he_, and the name should be hel
> (הל). It appears this way with Mozilla 1.3 and Internet Explorer 6; Opera 6.12, I have
> to concede, renders the Hebrew words incorrectly. Is this the one you are using, too?

I am using Opera (6.0).

>
> The markup basically is <SPAN lang="he" dir=rtl title="HL">&he;&lamed;</SPAN> (of course I have
> hex codes instead of named entities).
>
> Now I don't know Hebrew; I just lernt the alphabet for the purpose of my web site. I cannot draw
> much information out of Hebrew web pages. Can you, as a more knowledgeable person, point me to any
> page that is predomonantly in English (or any other language based on the Latin script), but has
> interspersed Hebrew word correctly rendered on your browser?
>

Here is one that has Yiddish for travelers. Words are presented in English translation, Hebrew
(Yiddish naturally uses the Hebrew alphabet) and Yiddish transliterated into the Latin alphabet. If
you speak German, you'll probably understand many of the transliterated words.

<http://www.travlang.com/languages/cgi-bin/langchoice.cgi?page=main&lang1=english&lang2=yiddish>

This renders the Hebrew correctly in Opera 6.0, Mozilla 5.0, IE 5.0 and Netscape 7.2.

-bwg

> Such pages as http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/charset/fontface-harmful.html
> http://james.jlcarroll.net/symbolism/onycha.html all have their Hebrew quotes rendered wrongly by
> my Opera. If you can find a better example, and it this can be made to run on standard-complying
> browsers as well, I'll try to fix the problem.
 
On 30 Jan 2004 19:16:33 +1300, "Loki" <[email protected]> wrote:

>il Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:04:43 GMT, smithfarms pure kona ha scritto:
>
>> >What kind of climate do they need?
>>
>> They grow here in South Kona, Hawaii at the 1800 foot altitude.
Sub
>> tropical is what they like. Lowest cold temp of the year is about
50
>> and never gets to 90 on hot summer days. If you can grow white
ginger
>> etc. you ought to be able to grow cardamom.
>>
>> aloha, Thunder
>
>Thanks for the info. Right now it's sub tropical, but it should be hot and searing, and then
>freezing in winter (temperate) at about sea level. They'd probably need a glasshouse here. Pity.

Sorry. We live in a zone deemed subtropical, and I guess you don't. I thought from your name Loki
that you might be from the Pacific.

aloha, Thunder http://www.smithfarms.com Farmers & Sellers of 100% Kona Coffee & other Great Stuff
 
In article <[email protected]>, Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:

> BTW, what I bought at the Pakistani food store under the name of "cardamom" was much different
> from a jar of some spice my mom bought when I was a kid, which I'm pretty sure was also sold as
> "cardamom". However, the stuff I bought were long green seed pods (about 20 mm x 5 mm x 2 mm) with
> a thin brittle skin containing spherical seeds like mustard. What my mom bought were roughly
> spherical off-white seed pods, about 10 mm in diameter, that were thick and soft, containing small
> dark seeds in the center. Is it possible that there's more than one spice called cardamom?

Yes, but it isn't that one. Penzey's sells three different kinds of cardamom: green, white and
black. The black resembles the green but is much larger and has a stronger flavor with a definite
"smoky" aroma. It is also much cheaper, which is why some people use it instead of the green. The
white is even more expensive than the green, is is said to be used in Scandinavia.

--
Dan Abel Sonoma State University AIS [email protected]
 
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Gernot Katzer wrote:

> [email protected] (Barry Grau) wrote

> > By the way, I notice that the Spice Pages give the Hebrew word backward (written from left to
> > right) or else transliterates it backward -- the transliteration he gives is "hel" but the
> > Hebrew text reads "leh." As if anyone else cares.
>
> Well, as the author i *do* care.

Well then, my apologies for striding in with a comment about this, even though off-topic for
the group...

> I see a _lamed_ left of a _he_,

indeed

> and the name should be hel (הל). It appears this way with Mozilla 1.3 and Internet
> Explorer 6;

I don't see anything to complain about with your HTML markup. Theoretically, the dir=rtl attribute
_should_ not be necessary here, since the Hebrew characters have inherent rtl directionality, and
there are no direction-neutral characters to cause ambiguity. But the addition of dir=rtl is often
useful (for confused browsers!), even where in theory it is redundant.

> Opera 6.12, I have to concede, renders the Hebrew words incorrectly.

Indeed, that was also my impression for the 6.xx versions of Opera which I had tried.

However, this prompted me to download their current offering (7.23), and I can report that it
displays your page correctly.

> The markup basically is <SPAN lang="he" dir=rtl title="HL">&he;&lamed;</SPAN> (of course I have
> hex codes instead of named entities).

To get (small amounts of) rtl scripts to be presented "correctly" also on browsers which don't
support rtl, the workaround seems to be to write the text the "wrong way around" (this will then
appear visually to be the correct way around on browsers which don't support rtl), and in addition
use <bdo dir=ltr> to overrule the inherent directionality of the rtl characters for browsers which
would otherwise be trying to reverse the direction. However, I must stress that this is *not* a
recommended technique, since it is likely to cause the strings to be indexed back-to-front by search
engines and the like.

Also I mentioned using this only for "small amounts" of rtl scripts, because otherwise browsers make
a terrible mess of paragraph line flow and alignment. Read about the older convention of "visual iso-8859-
8", for example at Nir Dagan's pages (link from my page cited below)

> Now I don't know Hebrew; I just lernt the alphabet for the purpose of my web site. I cannot draw
> much information out of Hebrew web pages.

I must stress also that I am no reader of Hebrew: my interest is in the technology of character
coding and HTML markup.

> Can you, as a more knowledgeable person, point me to any page that is predomonantly in English (or
> any other language based on the Latin script), but has interspersed Hebrew word correctly rendered
> on your browser?

You can find a few notes about this on my page http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/charset/text-
direction.html

> can find a better example, and it this can be made to run on standard-complying browsers as well,
> I'll try to fix the problem.

I would have to recommend not "fixing the problem" - because you would be basically breaking the
HTML source in order to pander to broken browsers. But if you really wanted to, I have mentioned a
way to do it.

Hope this is useful. If you really want to go into this in detail,
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html would seem a very relevant venue for the discussion, without
disrupting the on-topic matters here on this group ;-)

Gruesse.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom Back