Pedal Advice

[Gags]

Only one week to go till I get this stinkin' (literally) cast off my arm and
I will finally get to ride the new roadie. When I got it there were SPD
pedals on it which is fine as I have one set of road shoes with SPD cleats
but I am thinking about upgrading the pedals and buying a new pair of shoes
as well.

I was looking at the Exustar shoes from www.torpedo7.com that I think Blah
has got but unfortunately they only stock up to a 47 which is bad news for
me as I need a 48 (in Shimano and Specialized shoes anyway). I currently
have the old style Look pedals on my old roadie and SPDs on my mtbs and
fixie (haven't had any experience with any other pedal systems).

Looking for feedback, general comments, advice on which way to go with new
pedals and shoes......here is the user specification:

I don't want pedals that squeak.
I don't want to spend a fortune (scored the bike for $585 and don't want to
double its price).
Not too concerned with weight.
Don't have any problems with ordering from OS.

Gags

 

[flyingdutch]

'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters...
(PS you can get cleats for beaters for any bolthole pattern too)

PS have you asked Torpedo about the sizings or are you going by the site?
found them to be very good thus far

 

[Donga]

FD:
>'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters...

Yep, you can't beat 'em (I've ditched Looks and SPDs; still using Times
on roadie and they are good but I will switch to beaters when they are
worn out). I have beaters with and without platforms and prefer them
without.

Donga

 

[flyingdutch]

Yep, you can't beat 'em (I've ditched Looks and SPDs; still using Times
on roadie and they are good but I will switch to beaters when they are
worn out). I have beaters with and without platforms and prefer them
without.

Donga

i recently tried JayWoos Quattro's (with Quattro style cleats i may add; had to have them for 3bolt hole pattern...). Admittedly it was only 5 minutes but couldnt quite get the hang of them ? then again i doubt pedals should be judged on 5 minutes sample
Have found stiffer soled new shoes, Diadoras, make the eggbeaters fairly un-noticeable as having a small platform. (PS these shoes ROCK! intend using em on and off road/commuting, etc the little lever-mech i thought may be a gimmick but is certainly a joy to use and great for adjusting on the bike too!)

anyway, let the pedal wars begin

 

[Bleve]

Gags wrote:
> Only one week to go till I get this stinkin' (literally) cast off my arm and
> I will finally get to ride the new roadie. When I got it there were SPD
> pedals on it which is fine as I have one set of road shoes with SPD cleats
> but I am thinking about upgrading the pedals and buying a new pair of shoes
> as well.
>
> I was looking at the Exustar shoes from www.torpedo7.com that I think Blah
> has got but unfortunately they only stock up to a 47 which is bad news for
> me as I need a 48 (in Shimano and Specialized shoes anyway). I currently
> have the old style Look pedals on my old roadie and SPDs on my mtbs and
> fixie (haven't had any experience with any other pedal systems).
>
> Looking for feedback, general comments, advice on which way to go with new
> pedals and shoes......here is the user specification:
>
> I don't want pedals that squeak.
> I don't want to spend a fortune (scored the bike for $585 and don't want to
> double its price).
> Not too concerned with weight.
> Don't have any problems with ordering from OS.

It's going to depend on your intended use. Dutchy etc have already
pitched for eggbeaters, which are a great MTB pedal, but are
questionable for long* road rides due to their small platform size
(pressure = force/area, and pressure means hurt over time!). This can
be partially mittigated with very stiff soles, but they introduce more
expense and aren't always all that comfortable until you spend BIG
BUCKS!

If you're commuting, the convenience of double (or no side, eg
eggbeaters) entry may be a factor, although I commute on SPD-SLs and
this is rarely an issue for me. So Shimano M520's or Eggbelchers or
whatever may be fine. You may also want a shoe that you can walk in -
which pretty-much eliminates all the true "road" pedal/cleat setups
anyway. You *can* walk in shoes with SPD-SL cleats (I've done 5km in
them, not good, but manageable), but look or time cleats you will
destroy by walking on unless you have cleat covers. A set of Shimano
SPD-SL's (105 level) will cost around $100-$125 and shoes to fit,
anywhere from $100 to $500! Given your budget, I'd forget speedplay.

Be aware, also that SPD isn't always SPD. By that, I mean that the SPD
clones (welgo, cannondale etc) don't always work as expected with other
SPD clones or the Shimano genuines. So if you get an SPD or lookalike,
make sure you use the cleats that came with the pedal, not some other
brand unless you test them first and make sure they clip in *and* clip
out properly!

* I used SPD's on my roady until I started doing big miles for the
Warny, and very soon moved to SPD-SL's! Moderate power output over a
long time, and cold weather .. ouch!

 

[flyingdutch]

It's going to depend on your intended use. Dutchy etc have already
pitched for eggbeaters, which are a great MTB pedal, but are
questionable for long* road rides due to their small platform size
(pressure = force/area, and pressure means hurt over time!). This can
be partially mittigated with very stiff soles, but they introduce more
expense and aren't always all that comfortable until you spend BIG
BUCKS!

admittedly cant rebutt that as the longest ride I have done on em thus far is 120k. felt fine after that, but 'may' be an issue on ATBIAD or other?

and just to bore you with more pro-belcher tork,
better clearance, weight, serviceability kills anything else...

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 24 Apr 2006 06:15:41 +1000
flyingdutch <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters...
> (PS you can get cleats for beaters for any bolthole pattern too)
>

so... explain to us clueless ones what the differences in pedals are.

What makes one better than another?

Zebee

 

[blah]

Gags wrote:

>
> I don't want pedals that squeak.
> I don't want to spend a fortune (scored the bike for $585 and don't want to
> double its price).
> Not too concerned with weight.
> Don't have any problems with ordering from OS.

Here's my two cents:

Switched to Look Keo carbons after my Ultegra spds just _would_not_
stop creaking. I've found them to be ace in all respects besides off
the bike - the cleat is a bit smaller than the spds and seems much more
slippery on a lot of surfaces (walking isn't why I bought them, though,
but coffee stops and climbing the ten or so tiled steps to my apartment
is difficult). Oh yeh, the cleats seem to be wearing pretty quickly
from walking and planting a foot on the road when stopped. The cleat
plastic seems a bit soft.

The best thing about the Looks is that they've taken measures against
creaking, with a different material (teflon or somewhat) on the cleats'
undersides where they contact the pedal. Whether this works or not,
they haven't creaked yet.

I've got the carbon ones, but there are "lesser" models with
essentially the same design for cheaper - probikekit is heaps below lbs
prices (almost half the price, after delivery), hence my extravagance.

Apart from the above, what can I say? They attach my shoes to the crank
very well and are silent. Clip in and out is easy and I've never pulled
a foot out despite not really tensioning them up much.

Good luck.

 

[Bleve]

flyingdutch wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> >
> > It's going to depend on your intended use. Dutchy etc have already
> > pitched for eggbeaters, which are a great MTB pedal, but are
> > questionable for long* road rides due to their small platform size
> > (pressure = force/area, and pressure means hurt over time!). This can
> > be partially mittigated with very stiff soles, but they introduce more
> > expense and aren't always all that comfortable until you spend BIG
> > BUCKS!
> >
>
> admittedly cant rebutt that as the longest ride I have done on em thus
> far is 120k. felt fine after that, but 'may' be an issue on ATBIAD or
> other?

I think it's more an issue of the power output over time than pure
time. If you do the RTB while crystalcranking you could do it on a
nail and be ok, but if you're trying to pump out some more watts,
remember the equation - P = F/A - increase F, and you increase P.


>
> and just to bore you with more pro-belcher tork,
> better clearance, weight, serviceability kills anything else...

Better clearance than SPD-SL? Not in this parallel universe It's
only an issue in crits anyway, not recreational, commuting or road
racing.

 

[Bleve]

blah wrote:
> Gags wrote:
>
> >
> > I don't want pedals that squeak.
> > I don't want to spend a fortune (scored the bike for $585 and don't want to
> > double its price).
> > Not too concerned with weight.
> > Don't have any problems with ordering from OS.
>
> Here's my two cents:
>
> Switched to Look Keo carbons after my Ultegra spds just _would_not_
> stop creaking.

Were these SPD's, SPD-R or SPD-SL?

I've never had a creak in my SPD-SL's (Ultegra and 105 on the two
roadies)but have seen a few that do, usually as a result of a
spacerplate on shoes that needed a plate.

 

[Bleve]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Mon, 24 Apr 2006 06:15:41 +1000
> flyingdutch <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters, 'beaters...
> > (PS you can get cleats for beaters for any bolthole pattern too)
> >
>
> so... explain to us clueless ones what the differences in pedals are.
>
> What makes one better than another?

What makes a ute better than a ducati? Horses for courses.

Different pedal/cleat combos are better or worse (or, just plain worse!
eg Shimano SPD-R, although trackies may disagree!) for different
applications. There's 2 main distinctions - road and MTB. MTB pedals
need a cleat that you can walk/run in and the most common design is the
Shimano SPD and clones. It's a small metal cleat that is recessed into
the tread of a shoe. Eggbeaters are a clever variant of this where the
pedal is essentially a rod with 4 sides that you can clip into.

Typically these pedals are not deigned for sustained high-power use -
as the cleat and pedal is small, it concentrates a lot of pressure on
your foot causing pain, they also allow a fair amount of roll which
isn't ideal for sprinting.

Road pedals tend to be bigger, are usually one-sided and have a larger
area. Examples are Look Keo, original Look, Time and Shimano SPD-SL.
There's an exception which the speedplay system, which is double-sided
and quite unique. Google will show you many pictures of all of these
variants. As they're bigger, they offer more support and
reduce/eliminate roll (until they wear out!). They're too big to be
recessed inside shoe tread, so you usually find them on flat-sole shoes
that are only meant to be ridden in.

Within the road shoe family there's various designs that allow more or
less yaw (float) or even no yaw at all (zero float). What makes one
better than another? Surface area, weight (less is more, right!),
stability, reliability and longevity of the cleat. Noise is sometimes
an issue - but in my experience it's rare and usually suggests
something incompatible with the cleat/pedal or worn out components.
As is ground clearance for tight corners at speed - some pedals are
very deep so they reduce your ability to pedal through a corner at high
lean angles. There's also the distance from the ball of the foot to
the pedal axle (which directly affects ground clearance for obvious
reasons!) which is a fit and power use issue. We won't go there save
to mention that GENERALLY it's better to be as close to the pedal axle
as possible. Some pedals also offer more or less adjustment for "q
factor" (wanky term for pedal and/or hip spacing - ie: how wide are
your pedals).

Hope that helps

 

[TimC]

On 2006-04-24, blah (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> Gags wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't want pedals that squeak.
>> I don't want to spend a fortune (scored the bike for $585 and don't want to
>> double its price).
>> Not too concerned with weight.
>> Don't have any problems with ordering from OS.
>
> Here's my two cents:
>
> Switched to Look Keo carbons after my Ultegra spds just _would_not_
> stop creaking. I've found them to be ace in all respects besides off
> the bike - the cleat is a bit smaller than the spds and seems much more
> slippery on a lot of surfaces (walking isn't why I bought them, though,
> but coffee stops and climbing the ten or so tiled steps to my apartment
> is difficult). Oh yeh, the cleats seem to be wearing pretty quickly
> from walking and planting a foot on the road when stopped. The cleat
> plastic seems a bit soft.

Very very soft (I think they're Look Keos). I'm getting 3-4 months
out of mine, and I don't do much walking in them at all (and try to
walk on soft bits when I do have to). I did go the cleat protectors
once, but they are $20 LBS instead of $30 LBS prices for cleats
themselves, and they were lasting about as long, or possibly even not
as long. They *did* make walking a lot better though. No more slippy
slippy down front stairs, eh clumsy TimC?

They creak occasionally. Probably more when worn.

> I've got the carbon ones, but there are "lesser" models with
> essentially the same design for cheaper - probikekit is heaps below lbs
> prices (almost half the price, after delivery), hence my extravagance.

Hmmm. The ones I've seen in the bike shop seem to have similar or
identical packaging to the pair I got off PBK.

> Apart from the above, what can I say? They attach my shoes to the crank
> very well and are silent. Clip in and out is easy and I've never pulled
> a foot out despite not really tensioning them up much.

Hmmm, your luck/skill better than my luck/skill. I've pulled out
reasonably often (once or twice when they aren't worn, even!) Of
course when they're worn, you expect that, and I do tend to keep using
them until there's only a stump left.

I rate the looks pretty poorly. I think my next choice will be the
eggbeater, given that I have hard soled shoes (although it sounds from
dutch's experience, that I wouldn't have trouble with MTB shoes).

--
TimC
"It took people a long time to figure out which machine was [mooing],
and even longer to figure out how. But for some reason it didn't take
them any time at all to figure that I'd done it." -- Paul Tomblin on ASR

 

[Bleve]

TimC wrote:

> Hmmm, your luck/skill better than my luck/skill. I've pulled out
> reasonably often (once or twice when they aren't worn, even!) Of
> course when they're worn, you expect that, and I do tend to keep using
> them until there's only a stump left.

This is one of the advantages of the SPD-SL cleats - they don't start
to wear the important bit out until the little wearpads are worn
through, which means you get a very easy visual clue as to when they're
just about due to be replaced. I get around 6 months or so out of a
pair of cleats and I'm averaging around 12,000km every 6 months at the
moment. Metal cleats don't have this problem, of course.

 

[TimC]

On 2006-04-24, TimC (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On 2006-04-24, blah (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> Switched to Look Keo carbons after my Ultegra spds just _would_not_
>> stop creaking. I've found them to be ace in all respects besides off
>> the bike - the cleat is a bit smaller than the spds and seems much more
>> slippery on a lot of surfaces (walking isn't why I bought them, though,
>> but coffee stops and climbing the ten or so tiled steps to my apartment
>> is difficult). Oh yeh, the cleats seem to be wearing pretty quickly
>> from walking and planting a foot on the road when stopped. The cleat
>> plastic seems a bit soft.
>
> Very very soft (I think they're Look Keos). I'm getting 3-4 months

Nope, Look deltas. Don't know what the functional difference is...

Hmmm, more contact area. And weight, but I'm not a weight weenie
(yay! new lights!)

--
TimC
I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your
phone 90 degrees and try again. -- MIT's phone switch

 

[Andrew Price]

Gags asks -

> Looking for feedback, general comments, advice on which way to go with new
> pedals and shoes......here is the user specification:

At the risk of being labelled a contrarian and burnt as a heretic, I like
Keywins (old simple but good NZ pedal) as a road pedal.

Light, simple, very flat and not expensive to replace cleats or rebuild them
when they wear.

Souce here : http://www.keywin.com/crm.htm


Reviews here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id=2002/letters/keywin

Pedals and cleats are a very subjective thing - possibly the best advice is
try and find the ones that best suit your feet and riding position because
over time cleat postion and knee/hip comfort are a very big factor in
efficiency and hence enjoyment / performance.

Road shoes are more or less generic - cleat type and postioning do matter.

best, Andrew

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on 23 Apr 2006 20:06:33 -0700
Bleve <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Typically these pedals are not deigned for sustained high-power use -
> as the cleat and pedal is small, it concentrates a lot of pressure on
> your foot causing pain, they also allow a fair amount of roll which
> isn't ideal for sprinting.

OK, all that makes sense. My MTB pedals allow a lot of roll and are
big and flat, plus having cleat only one side and the other usable
with any old shoe.

All excellent features for a big heavy commuter bike! I have pondered
changing for pedals with cleat either side, but I find that I use the
non-cleat side in really tight slow turns when I've unclipped one side
but need a bit of pedalling and don't want to clip in again.

Now, if someone can just design gears with an emergency "first gear.
now!!!" setting.....

Zebee
- caught in too high a gear at a roundabout once too often.

 

[Shane Stanley]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Bleve" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Typically these pedals are not deigned for sustained high-power use -
> as the cleat and pedal is small, it concentrates a lot of pressure on
> your foot causing pain

For some people, perhaps, but for others, pedals like SPDs are fine. I'm
thinking of people like Jobst Brandt touring the alps in his, with
something like a 44/26 as his granny. That would concentrate more than
the mind...

--
Shane Stanley

 

[oely]

TimC wrote:

> Hmmm, your luck/skill better than my luck/skill. I've pulled out
> reasonably often (once or twice when they aren't worn, even!) Of
> course when they're worn, you expect that, and I do tend to keep using
> them until there's only a stump left.

This is one of the advantages of the SPD-SL cleats - they don't start
to wear the important bit out until the little wearpads are worn
through, which means you get a very easy visual clue as to when they're
just about due to be replaced. I get around 6 months or so out of a
pair of cleats and I'm averaging around 12,000km every 6 months at the
moment. Metal cleats don't have this problem, of course.

Why is it that Look cant create a cleat similiar? Something a tad easier to walk/plant your foot down in. Ive got Look 396's, and never had a problem with them, yet to hear the dreaded squeak. Walking wise i dont find it much of an issue in Aus, not that i do much walking in them, but in Europe where your sometimes on these funny cobbled tiled like roads, and older streets etc... i may as well of been on ice when trying to walk in them. My gf strolls off in her SPD-SL cleats and im looking like some new born Deer slipping about trying to keep up.

In France last summer i stopped while riding and tried to buy the cleat covers from some old tiny store but they didnt have any left. While then walking out I slipped, on a really well worn smooth step, feet went out from under me and fell back cracking my head open! Good times were had by all.

 

[Bleve]

oely wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> > TimC wrote:
> >
> > > Hmmm, your luck/skill better than my luck/skill. I've pulled out
> > > reasonably often (once or twice when they aren't worn, even!) Of
> > > course when they're worn, you expect that, and I do tend to keep
> > using
> > > them until there's only a stump left.
> >
> > This is one of the advantages of the SPD-SL cleats - they don't start
> > to wear the important bit out until the little wearpads are worn
> > through, which means you get a very easy visual clue as to when
> > they're
> > just about due to be replaced. I get around 6 months or so out of a
> > pair of cleats and I'm averaging around 12,000km every 6 months at the
> > moment. Metal cleats don't have this problem, of course.
>
> Why is it that Look cant create a cleat similiar?


Patent? "not invented here" syndrome? They don't think it's a
problem?
Write to them and ask, or just get some pedals/cleats that you can walk
in, if it's important to you!

 

[Theo Bekkers]

Bleve wrote:

> Write to them and ask, or just get some pedals/cleats that you can
> walk in, if it's important to you!

Too late, it's been done. I have a pair of Look walking shoes, with the
cleats wholly recessed into the sole. I bought them in ..... around 1989.
When walking in them you're barely aware of the cleats.

Theo