Perhaps someone should tell "BICYCLING" mag's "Style Man" about this...



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On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:18:29 GMT, "Slider2699" <[email protected]> from RoadRunner - Tampa
Bay wrote:

>But people who buy bikes as cheap transportation don't spend money on cycling. Guys on DUI specials
>don't buy Castelli shorts, or fancy Giro helmets. They also don't care about training tips, or
>nutrition tips, or articles on cycling destinations. The people who currently read Bicycling
>do. Hence, the preponderance of monied white people in Bicycling. As I stated before, if you want
> to see minorities in a bicycle-oriented magazine, read "Lowrider Bicycle".

You just don't get it. IF Bicycling started including everyday, inexpensive, commuter- and
regular-person content, then they would attract a broader audience. More readers with a little money
probably equals a smaller amount of readers with a lot of money. But more readers provided with
relevant content does the whole bicycling community good.
--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace Bo Derek ruined my life!
3:54:55 PM 18 July 2003
 
"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:18:29 GMT, "Slider2699" <[email protected]> from RoadRunner - Tampa
> Bay wrote:
>
> >But people who buy bikes as cheap transportation don't spend money on cycling. Guys on DUI
> >specials don't buy Castelli shorts, or fancy Giro helmets. They also don't care about training
> >tips, or nutrition tips, or articles on cycling destinations. The people who currently read
> >Bicycling
> >do. Hence, the preponderance of monied white people in Bicycling. As I stated before, if you want
> > to see minorities in a bicycle-oriented
magazine,
> >read "Lowrider Bicycle".
>
> You just don't get it. IF Bicycling started including everyday,
inexpensive,
> commuter- and regular-person content, then they would attract a broader audience. More readers
> with a little money probably equals a smaller
amount of
> readers with a lot of money. But more readers provided with relevant
content
> does the whole bicycling community good.

No, YOU don't get it. People who ride DUI specials, and poor transportation-oriented bicycle riders
don't look at bicycling as a hobby. They don't want to read about it. They don't care. That's the
same reason you don't see articles in car enthusiast magazines about Ford Taurus wagons, and Geo
Metros. Magazines about hobbies or activities make money from ads which are targeted at the
hobbyist. Hobbyists see these ads and spend money on the products. Someone riding a 10 year old
Murray cruiser isn't going to do that, and that's how magazines make money. Capitalism, and all
that jazz.
 
In article <[email protected]>, "H. Guy"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > >They are aiming for their target demographic. Recreational and competitive cycling are, to use
> > >your term, "Whitey" sports. I've done several charity rides and have never seen an
> > >African-American. Never. The only African-Americans I see riding bikes are riding Wal-Mart
> > >specials.
>
> that's 100% contrary to my experience in d.c. i'd say half of the people i see, regardless of
> race, are on their wal-mart specials. titanium isn't just the white man's (financial) burden. i've
> no doubt that tampa is a different world.
>
> > Imagine what it would do for LBSes if BuyCycling broadened their target market to ALL cyclists
> > instead of a monied, white elite. Imagine what it would do for the sport. At the very least,
> > Bicycling should change its name to Expensive Bicycling or something.
>
> they've leaned that way for at least the last 15 years. it's the unobtanium frame that gets the
> enthusiast drooling, so that's naturally what they feature. but they should feature at least one
> bike a month for the population that can't drop $3K on a bike.

And they do. Look at the prices. They invariably feature a low or mid-range road bike every month
I've checked.

For all the slagging Bicycling gets in this forum (and every time they publish a new ratio for the
relative importance of rotating and non-rotating mass, they earn it), they know their audience well.

It's the difference between the demographics of stereo and TV owners (most of whom are pretty happy
if their right and left speakers are plugged in the correct places) and the readers of _Sound &
Vision_ or (shudder) _The Absolute Sound_. Everyone you know owns a stereo, but precious few treat
their stereo as a hobby, and fewer still care enough to want a magazine about it.

Bicycling covers the _Sound & Vision_ end of the market ably. In either market, the target is a
broad group where they want buying advice on equipment that makes sense for middle-class readers
treating the activity as a primary hobby (good and solid, but not insane).

At least in this way cyclists are less scary than audiophiles: we all agree that once your bike
budget reaches $5000, you can probably buy one or two of the best, highest-performance bikes in the
world. There might be a few overachieving Colnago Ferrari editions out there, but they're obviously
rich collector bait.

Audiophiles figure $5000 is a good start. For the speakers. In the home-theatre room.

And while Bicycling says stupid things monthly, be they inadvertant reviews of the tire pressures
and placebo effects of yet another lightweight frame, or the advice in the Style Man column (really,
he could take some lessons from Fabrizio, those glasses are so two years ago), at least a cyclist
who followed most of their advice (train well, eat right, do a century, buy this mid-range bike with
decent components) would end up a better cyclist than if they had no similar info source.

On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in which a salesman is trying to
sell one of the characters a strategy guide for a video game. "No thanks, I have the Internet."

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
>On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in which a salesman is trying to
>sell one of the characters a strategy guide for a video game. "No thanks, I have the Internet."

I'm inclined to disagree. The bicycle isn't the same thing as the stereo, simply because we don't
interact with them on the same level.

I like my Mageneplanars but I love my Schwinn.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email protected]__________
 
x-no-archive:yes

"Eric S. Sande" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in which a salesman is trying to
> >sell one of the characters a strategy guide for a video game. "No thanks, I have the Internet."

>
> I'm inclined to disagree. The bicycle isn't the same thing as the stereo, simply because we don't
> interact with them on the same level.
>
> I like my Mageneplanars but I love my Schwinn.

I agree with Ryan: I know a guy who'd name his child "Bose" if his wife would let him.

Pat in TX
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

...

> On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are you a Niven/Pournelle fan?

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Kevan Smith
<[email protected]/\/\> says...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:18:29 GMT, "Slider2699" <[email protected]> from RoadRunner - Tampa
> Bay wrote:
>
> >But people who buy bikes as cheap transportation don't spend money on cycling. Guys on DUI
> >specials don't buy Castelli shorts, or fancy Giro helmets. They also don't care about training
> >tips, or nutrition tips, or articles on cycling destinations. The people who currently read
> >Bicycling
> >do. Hence, the preponderance of monied white people in Bicycling. As I stated before, if you want
> > to see minorities in a bicycle-oriented magazine, read "Lowrider Bicycle".
>
> You just don't get it. IF Bicycling started including everyday, inexpensive, commuter- and
> regular-person content, then they would attract a broader audience. More readers with a little
> money probably equals a smaller amount of readers with a lot of money. But more readers provided
> with relevant content does the whole bicycling community good.
> --
> http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace Bo Derek ruined my life!
> 3:54:55 PM 18 July 2003
>
For that to happen they would have to hire writers who fit that description. Unfortunately people
who fit that description don't strike me as the type who want a career writing about cycling.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
1. old playboy minus norman
2. o.p. minus beaver
3. lotta people think everyone riding a bike iza retard
4. lota people think clothing.this makes bike plus clothing not a retard.
5. lotta people driving cars don't think, you may have noticed this in your travels
6. a secretary writes this BS on coffebreak. those other ugly dudes are models scraped of the street
7. why are you wasting time reading **** about $300 coffemakers and looking at expensive photos of
bug infested cabins.
 
David Kerber wrote:

>>On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in=20

> Are you a Niven/Pournelle fan?

Oooh, I am! Except for the one I just finished, "Fallen Angels" which=20 is a piece of ****.

Recently discovered Elizabeth Moon, I've been pouring through her=20 Familias Regnant series...

I'm a sucker for Baen eBooks, spend far too much time reading 'em on my=20 Cli=E9 NZ90

Sheldon "Hard Science Fiction" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------+
| When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, | social collapse is not far away. It is time
| to go | elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is | that it made it possible to go
| elsewhere. | --Robert A. Heinlein |
+-----------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:00:30 -0300, Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> from
Ramsay's wrote:

>For that to happen they would have to hire writers who fit that description. Unfortunately people
>who fit that description don't strike me as the type who want a career writing about cycling.

Magazine writers generally don't have careers with just one company. Most, in fact, are free lance.
The ones actualy employed tend to hop from one mag to another until they land an editor position.

--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace Don't SANFORIZE me!!
1:52:10 PM 19 July 2003
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> David Kerber wrote:
>
> >>On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in
>
> > Are you a Niven/Pournelle fan?
>
> Oooh, I am! Except for the one I just finished, "Fallen Angels" which is a piece of ****.

I haven't read that one...

> Recently discovered Elizabeth Moon, I've been pouring through her Familias Regnant series...
>
> I'm a sucker for Baen eBooks, spend far too much time reading 'em on my Clié NZ90
>
> Sheldon "Hard Science Fiction" Brown

I figured as much from your reference to "The Gripping Hand". Me, too, though I don't keep up with
current authors much. About once a year I'll go out and buy a few, but spend the rest of the year
re-reading some of the 400 or so in my collection. I just re-read (for the 3rd time, IIRC) "The
Gripping Hand" earlier this year.

....

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
 
In article <[email protected]>, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > David Kerber wrote:
> >
> > >>On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in
> >
> > > Are you a Niven/Pournelle fan?
> >
> > Oooh, I am! Except for the one I just finished, "Fallen Angels" which is a piece of ****.

> > Sheldon "Hard Science Fiction" Brown
>
> I figured as much from your reference to "The Gripping Hand". Me, too, though I don't keep up with
> current authors much. About once a year I'll go out and buy a few, but spend the rest of the year
> re-reading some of the 400 or so in my collection. I just re-read (for the 3rd time, IIRC) "The
> Gripping Hand" earlier this year.

Hey! That was my reference! Argh! Attribution, people. Did somebody top-post?

Someone's eventually going to figure out what the Penny Arcade reference says about me,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Eric S. Sande" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in which a salesman is trying to
> >sell one of the characters a strategy guide for a video game. "No thanks, I have the Internet."
>
> I'm inclined to disagree. The bicycle isn't the same thing as the stereo, simply because we don't
> interact with them on the same level.

Why did you quote that one section of my post? It has naught to do with your point...

> I like my Mageneplanars but I love my Schwinn.

I was making a point about their relative pricing more than the emotional bond you can get with
them. I assure you there are people out there with bicycles and stereos who love their stereos more.
Sick, sick people.

Personally, I tend not to love my Pinarello, and I love it less the more I think about it. Bikes are
bikes. A good one that fits well is a good biek. After too long off the bike, I get a hankering to
ride, but it's to ride a bike that fits well, not necessarily the Pinarello "Pastiche" or the Kona
Kilauea "Beckle".

Also not emotionally attached to my Infinity RS2s,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>David Kerber wrote:
>>>On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in=20
>>Are you a Niven/Pournelle fan?
>Oooh, I am! Except for the one I just finished, "Fallen Angels" which is a piece of ****.

Niven doesn't have Heinlein's excuse of brain cancer, but the effects have been much the same -
everything's been pretty awful recently.

"The Gripping Hand" was "The Moat Around Murcheson's Eye" in the UK.

>Recently discovered Elizabeth Moon, I've been pouring through her Familias Regnant series...

Like Bujold if Bujold was obsessed with horses. :)

At the '95 Worldcon Moon sat with me on a bouncy castle I was looking after and talked to me for a
bit - at the time I had no idea who she was.

>I'm a sucker for Baen eBooks, spend far too much time reading 'em on my
>Clie.

Baen have extracted a phenomenal amount of money from me by giving books away for free. Come to
think of it, a US bike shop has got quite a bit of money out of me by giving advice away for free...
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?
 
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