Polar CS600 Power - First on the Block...

[jcjordan]

Well I have had my unit now for three months and the only problem so far was cause by using rechargeable batteries. I think that due to the fact that they are a little smaller and have smooth bases that they may not have fitted as snug as they needed to when in the power pack.

 

[bamavortex]

A few of my observations on the power/cadence problems:
1) My unit had a period of working fairly well after one day I raised the power "surfboard" by placing two of the rubber spacers under each end of it. This was done thinking my dropout problem was related to the distance from the sensor to the chain being too large (which I now don't think was related to the problem at all). Now when I disconnected the cables to allow me to raise it, I also may have "reset" the unit according to Polar USA support, and that may have been why it then worked well for about a week of riding. (see my previous posting related to "resetting")
2) But after my unit started acting up again, and the unplugging / resetting trick didn't seem to help, I changed the two AAA batteries and to my suprise the cadence and power immediately started working again. But this was short lived, and by the next day it was not working again. That led me to think somehow the AAA batteries were being drained even when not riding the bike. Therefore I tried leaving it unplugged (at the bottom of the battery holder) when I was not riding to see if this helped, but it didn't seem to do anything. The next day, once again, cadence and power were still not working, or would work intermittently. Now I still don't believe the theory that loose battery connections cause these problems since there were days that I have had the power and cadence working fine and at the end of the ride go into my garage and park my bike overnight, not touch of change anything and the next morning have no power or cadence when I get back on it.
3) Two days ago I started getting a "low battery" reading from the receiver unit, even though I've only had the CS600 for two months ( the owner's manual claims 1 year battery life with 7 hour per week use). Yesterday I tried to find the CR2354 battery at several local drug stores, but none had it. I guess I'll try Radio Shack tomorrow. But I wonder if maybe a combination of factors is leading to all of these problems, including the receiver unit battery getting weak relatively fast, the AAA batteries getting drained rapidly somehow, and the cadence sensor intermittently malfunctioning in some way? It is my understanding that if the cadence stops working, then the power can't be calculated and will also read zero.
4) If I get this thing working again somehow, I wonder what would happen if I turn OFF cadence or power on the receiver and ride for a while. Will drop outs still occur in the function that is left ON?

In summary, so far my CS600 seems to be a good HRM (that function always works) with decent bike functions (speed and altitude seem to work fine), but it's design makes for a crappy power meter ( hardly ever works), which also leaves you without cadence most of the time. My old CS200 with cadence, that I paid a lot less money for, did most everything the new 600 actually does. If it wasn't for the fact that I only paid $379 for the CS600 with power (a popular online catalog had it at that price breifly, then changed it to $679 the day after I ordered it!) I'd be pretty mad and want my money back. For now, I'll keep messing with it and see what happens.

 

[jeff262]

Bamavortex..

I feel your pain having worked through issues on this. Note if you are looking for the CR2354 don't bother looking at Radio Shack or local stores for a watch battery. The battery is actually a PC battery made for use as back up. If you have a local electronics supply store they will have them on hand cheap. One note of caution is that there is a small difference in size on one of the cheap models I bought so be careful. Get the Panasonic if they have it. I have not used them for the CS600 but have replaced my 625x a couple of times.

The more I read these threads and after my own recent experience the more suspicious I get about current being a culprit in these problems. The paddle circuitry may have a very small tolerance for a drop in the current and bad battery connections and low batteries may be enough to give it problems. This might also explain why sometimes fresh batteries suddenly make it work or why some rechargeables don't work. It may also explain why it is intermittent in some cases. In my case I had a good voltage across the system and it still didn't work. When I improved the connection between the battery tab and the wire lead in the battery holder it started to work and had done fine for about 12 hours of riding now with no issues. I just wish I had measured the current before and after I did the soldering. If I get the time and energy maybe I will do a small science project to prove my current theory.

Good luck to all us CS600 Beta Testers.........

 

[Ergoman]

For what it's worth, since I relieved stress on the battery holder by using only one tight zip-tie I've had zero problems with power drops. I've also noticed that the carrier for the batteries seems too short and that when some batteries are used (there must be slight variation in battery length), the carrier bends and is a very tight fit into the holder.

The tight fit, the weak springs, thin wiring, and the poor design of the battery holder may all contribute to the malfunctioning. The CS600 is very sensitive to voltage. I built up a NiCad pack to use with it, and the CS600 functions fine so long as the pack's not charged too well. When the pack is fully charged, the CS600 won't work.

The best advice I can give at this point is to make sure that when the batteries are inserted into the holder that they are loose enough so that when you press down on them they will return freely under spring tension. Also, use fresh batteries. I've switched to lithium batteries and they seem to work OK.

 

[JohnMcP]

A quick update: My latest CS600 power sensor kit has now worked flawlessly for around 4 weeks and has been powered first by the old battery unit (from a power kit that failed) and then (after transfer onto the winter bike) by the new one that came with the latest kit. Both seem to have supplied power with no issues.

Polar won't yet tell me why they think my new one will work, whereas my old ones (from the same week of production according to the serial #) failed. All they're saying is that they ran the new one 'extensively' on their test rig (no rain, no road shock!!) before they sent it out.

I'm still asking for an explanation that involves science, rather than luck. if I get one, I'll let you know.

McP

 

[jcjordan]

I have to agree I believe that the majority of the problems originate from the power pack. the reasons for this assumption are:
- drop outs only seem to occur on bumpy roads, battery movement in the pack
- does not like rechargeable batteries, rechargeables tend to be a tad smaller then disposable and dont have the ridged bottom

 

[jeff262]

I can report that after my battery pack fix mentioned in an earlier post my unit has worked with absolutely no issues.

 

[Ergoman]

It's been over a month and 800+ miles since I last had a dropout with the CS600. I think the secret is making sure that the batteries are fresh, can move freely in the holder and make good, solid electrical contact. I'm using Energizer Lithium batteries which seem to be very long lasting and may have contributed to this long spell of troublefree operation.

 

[JohnMcP]

It's been over a month and 800+ miles since I last had a dropout with the CS600. I think the secret is making sure that the batteries are fresh, can move freely in the holder and make good, solid electrical contact. I'm using Energizer Lithium batteries which seem to be very long lasting and may have contributed to this long spell of troublefree operation.

The only word of caution here is that I had a unit which failed (random power/cadence data dropouts) and was replaced without my having to return it. Therefore I have two full kits at present.

The replacement power 'paddle' has been installed first with the 'old' battery pack (with the original batteries supplied by Polar) then transferred onto the winter bike with the 'new' battery pack (again with the batteries supplied by Polar). So far (nearly 30hrs) it has worked flawlessly with both battery packs. Surely if the original battery pack was causing the original unit to fail, it would have the same effect on the second one?

Simple solution to this is Polar to chip in with some kind of response...they tell me they monitor a number of web forums, so let's hope this one's on their list. If they admit that they've still got stuff wrong and tell us what they're doing to put it right (and how they'll look after all of us who've got hold of duff kit) I don't se how we can blame them!

 

[RHR38]

I got my set few days ago. Installation took maybe 2 hours, not that hassle that I thought. Everything worked except power unit, gap between chain and unit was too big so I reinstalled it closer and it started work right away. No drop-offs this far but just two outdoor rides done (totally **** weather right now), but it works in rollers fully too.

Irda-unit does not work that well, takes pretty long to find connection, but when it does then it works fluently. Software looks superb.

 

[mortimer99]

It's been over a month and 800+ miles since I last had a dropout with the CS600. I think the secret is making sure that the batteries are fresh, can move freely in the holder and make good, solid electrical contact. I'm using Energizer Lithium batteries which seem to be very long lasting and may have contributed to this long spell of troublefree operation.

Just to add, make sure the batteries are in the right position in the battery pack. I had put them in with the silver connector facing the wrong way and they worked, but the drop outs increased. I made sure and put them in correctly and no dropouts.

On another note, I run a triple, and I seem to get some weird readings when I am in the biggest gears on the 53. Seems the power readings are a bit high.

Anyone else seen this?

 

[Tom Anhalt]

Just to add, make sure the batteries are in the right position in the battery pack. I had put them in with the silver connector facing the wrong way and they worked, but the drop outs increased. I made sure and put them in correctly and no dropouts.

On another note, I run a triple, and I seem to get some weird readings when I am in the biggest gears on the 53. Seems the power readings are a bit high.

Anyone else seen this?

What's the spacing between the chain and the sensor when in this gearing?

If it's >30mm, then you're going to need to shim your sensor up a little higher if you find yourself using those gears often. This may mean that the chain will rub across the top of the case when on a small chainring and small cogs in the back...especially troublesome with the wide range of chainring diameters associated with a triple. Rubbing on the top of the case won't harm it, but you probably want to avoid that type of gear selection (along with the large chainring - large cog selection you originally referred to) just from an excessive cross-chaining standpoint. Heck, you've got a bunch of gears to choose, USE them and don't crosschain!


What's happening is that as the chain gets further from the sensor, it is less able to "pick up" the vertical chain vibration signal and the processing electronics tend to "lock on" to any other signal available...such as the chain pins passing the sensor (the vibration sensor is just "looking" for changes in inductance close to the coil.) This will typically cause your power readings to appear too high.

Hope that helps.

 

[mortimer99]

What's the spacing between the chain and the sensor when in this gearing?

If it's >30mm, then you're going to need to shim your sensor up a little higher if you find yourself using those gears often. This may mean that the chain will rub across the top of the case when on a small chainring and small cogs in the back...especially troublesome with the wide range of chainring diameters associated with a triple. Rubbing on the top of the case won't harm it, but you probably want to avoid that type of gear selection (along with the large chainring - large cog selection you originally referred to) just from an excessive cross-chaining standpoint. Heck, you've got a bunch of gears to choose, USE them and don't crosschain!


What's happening is that as the chain gets further from the sensor, it is less able to "pick up" the vertical chain vibration signal and the processing electronics tend to "lock on" to any other signal available...such as the chain pins passing the sensor (the vibration sensor is just "looking" for changes in inductance close to the coil.) This will typically cause your power readings to appear too high.

Hope that helps.

I didn't quite explain it right, I do my best to avoid cross-chaining . I get the higher readings when I am in the large front ring small rear cog. I already have 2 shims to move the chain up, and it currrently rubs in the small ring, middle cog. I will have to measure and see how far away it is.

thanks for the insight.

 

[Tom Anhalt]

I didn't quite explain it right, I do my best to avoid cross-chaining . I get the higher readings when I am in the large front ring small rear cog. I already have 2 shims to move the chain up, and it currrently rubs in the small ring, middle cog. I will have to measure and see how far away it is.

thanks for the insight.

For the same reasons listed above, here's another thing to check: Always make sure that the chain passes directly over the case. In fact, make sure it passes over an ~1.5 wide section centered on the "middle" mark. That's where the inductive sensor resides. I'm thinking that perhaps your sensor is skewed slightly inward relative to the chainline and when you're in your large chainring - small cog combo the chain is too far off to the side. Again, it would end up being a lack of "signal" for the sensor. Hope that helps.

 

[bverdon]

For the same reasons listed above, here's another thing to check: Always make sure that the chain passes directly over the case. In fact, make sure it passes over an ~1.5 wide section centered on the "middle" mark. That's where the inductive sensor resides. I'm thinking that perhaps your sensor is skewed slightly inward relative to the chainline and when you're in your large chainring - small cog combo the chain is too far off to the side. Again, it would end up being a lack of "signal" for the sensor. Hope that helps.

I doubt that is it. I mean...if that were it...by now I think we would all relize that certain gear combos worked...and others did not.

Thanks for the advice though...

 

[Tom Anhalt]

I doubt that is it. I mean...if that were it...by now I think we would all relize that certain gear combos worked...and others did not.

Thanks for the advice though...

Don't forget that with a triple the distance between the outer chainring and the inner chainring is larger than on a double. So, unless everything is lined up right, you're more likely to have the chain "off the side" of the module with a triple setup than with a double.

 

[JustCurious]

Don't forget that with a triple the distance between the outer chainring and the inner chainring is larger than on a double. So, unless everything is lined up right, you're more likely to have the chain "off the side" of the module with a triple setup than with a double.

I've seen that effect with curved chainstays. With the 53 x 11 combo the chain is a bit too far off to the outside of the sensor and you'll read power 20 to 30 watts too high. Don't know that I notice it though with straight chainstays, even with my 'commuter bike' with an XTR group.

 

[shoots]

just to add my $0.02
ive been using my polar unit for 2 months now and the few drop outs we're sorted out by jiggling the connectors....very technical i know other than that ive been very happy with the unit

but i had a drop out that lasted for over an hour riding home so thought maybe it was time for new batteries....inserted new batteries(duracell) and i couldn't get the unit to work...tried relearning sensor and it found it just fine...just no cadence and power readings while riding....Grrrrrrrr

so i've just tried the bending the battery terminals as suggested by bverdon and voila ive got power and cadence readings
i haven't tried it out on the road yet but here's hoping

so i for one vote for the crappy power pack design....but then maybe there's issues with various parts of the design!!!!! who knows

shoots

 

[SteveO2]

Well, I get to add my name to the list of folks experiencing the drop-outs of power and cadence. I just bought my CS600 and power module and installed it yesterday. My test rides showed the same behavior as others have experienced; loss of power/cadence readings even though the CS600 reports it can communicate with the sensor.

I'll be boxing up by CS600 and Power Module and returning it. Will now look into an Ergo or PT now. Pretty bummed though as I'd hoped this solution would work, however I don't feel like being a beta tester for Polar, especially considering the cost of this product.

Good luck to all on this;
SteveO

 

[MarkLove71]

Add me as well. My connection between battery and paddle first got spotty, then dropped out completely. I'm done with Polar.