Power Meters Don't Actually Measure Power: Part I

[integrate]

I bet that got your attention didn't it? Well, its true and here's why: your nervous system will only allow you to exhibit the amount of power that your joint stability allows. So they should actually be called "stability meters." While the cycling world, rooted deep in tradition, has yet to draw a definitive correlation between gym work and generating more power in the saddle, the only place to create joint stability and structural integrity is off the bike. There's a reason for this, and you'll get it in Part II.

Can you cheat the system through sprint workouts, intervals, etc? Yes to an extent, but if you want to fast track laying down more power, optimize your neuromuscular coordination (the way your muscles work together to move your bones) and you will drive your power, I mean stability output, through the roof. This is why you aren't measuring watts on a power meter, you're measuring joint integrity.

Another way to look at this is by asking what an activity's perceived threat to your skeletal system? The higher the perceived threat from a lack of joint stability, muscle imbalances, etc the less power your nervous system will allow your body to produce.

Long story short, this technique dropped :40 off my time up Blandor Way to Olive Tree Rd in only four days. Yes, turning on as much muscle as possible can produce results that quickly.

"If muscle length is altered as a result of a postural misalignment, then tension development will be reduced and the muscle will be unable to generate proper force," Mike Clarke DPT, MS, PES, CES and Scott Lucett MS, PES, CES, NASM-CPT (NASM Essentials of Corrective ExerciseTraining). The good news is that cycling is a single plane activity that is very prone to deactivating the glutes, causing the above mentioned muscular misalignment as your legs move in a fixed range of motion.

And running is bad for you? Real quick, its not. Its the way someone runs that is bad for them.

Ok, off the soap box, on with the article. Awesome, right? Not really, because if the glutes are supposed to extend the hip to drive power, and they don't function correctly, the hamstrings and hip flexors become overactive and movement compensations will take place and injuries will occur. Insert functional training: a cyclists best friend. In part two, I will get into what functional training is and why we need it.

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Al Painter, NASM-CPT, PES, CES is the President and Founder of INTEGRATE Performance Fitness. He has also been named the Bay Area's Best Personal Trainer (CitySports Magazine) as well as a People's Choice Award Winner (Palo Alto Daily News).

 

[tonyzackery]

So whatcha sellin'?

Power meters measure force.

 

[integrate]

They measure force output as an end result of muscles moving bones. But, the alignment of your joints and their structural integrity is what allows that end result to occur. There is a lot more that goes on before the foot pushes the pedal down.

 

[maydog]

Quick, get a patent! Beat cycleops, garmin and polar to the punch.

So you are saying to be more powerful we should get stronger ligaments? Perhaps bracing the joint will make me more powerful?

What a bunch of hooey - power output relies on many systems working together. You left out the cardiovascular, endocrine, central nervous and pulmonary systems - those are big ones. Even at a peak power output you are not generating forces that would threaten joints - it is not powerlifting. Your notion is a flawed, non scientific, way to view power - power is force and angular velocity. Being able to generate oodles of force will not necessarily make one powerful.

Most bicycling is performed way below the peak - sustainable power is more important. Bicycling constrains the joints to move in safe, predictable patterns. Bicycle fit will determine the positioning and alignment of the joints - you cannot train for that.

Perhaps no one has drawn a definitive correlation between gym work and power output because there isn't one.

By the way, your nervous system will allow to generate much more power than joint stability allows. There is no neural mechanism to limit output other than pain - which is more of a teacher than a limiter. Sports medicine doctors, physical therapists and surgeons can tell you how power output can exceed skeletal limits - they make a living from it.

Take me for example. Tore my patellar tendon jumping in a basketball game in high school. Jumping requires loads of power - why didn't my nervous system limit my output to prevent this? Also dislocated my shoulder and could do so repeatedly by throwing a ball - according to your theory, I should not have been able to throw hard enough to dislocate it after the inital injury.

Since we are making up theories: power meters should be called respiration meters, because generating power requires oxygen and everyone knows the harder you breathe the more powerful you will become.

 

[Bigpikle]

 

[sitzmark]

Can't agree with you on self-regulated power output. If that was true i wouldn't have torn my achilles when pushing off to chase down a drop shot on the tennis court. My mind said "chase", my achilles said "I quit". No warning, no pre-tear pain, just zingggggg..

The mechanical power meters don't measure "power"directly - that's true. As TZ noted, power meters measure force in the form of material deflection and electrical conductance. Power or work is extrapolated from a correlation with kinetic energy standards.. Sometimes the deflection force is generated primarily by skeleto-muscle action and sometimes it is heavily influenced by gravity, like when a cyclist stands to power the pedals. That power meters don't directly measure muscular power is not earth shattering news.

So...... ?

 

[maydog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_%28person%29#Common_characteristics_of_cranks

 

[tonyzackery]

You want some easy joint stability? Start riding on a relatively low deflecting carbon saddle. That cushy padded saddle you're on now probably costs at least another 40secs up Blandor Way/img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif.
Stabilize your hips, and the rest is gravy - but only the strong can survive (on a carbon saddle/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif).

IME, get your fit right and the carbon saddle disappears underneath you...ymmv.

 

[JoelTGM]

It measures your power output on the bike. Improve your riding position and sure you'll see a higher power output.

 

[integrate]

There's a great book by Paul Chek called "Movement That Matter" and he gets into this concept quite a bit. Can people put out decent power even with an injury? Definitely. Is it optimal force production? No.

Your body will find a way to self regulate. Yes, your body does work as integrated unit to produce force. Yes it does involve neural as well as hormonal systems. I agree with that. To that point, anywhere there are roadblocks to optimal neuralmuscular coordination, you'll always leak power in the weakest part of your kinetic chain.

Joint dysfunction will cause abnormal movement patterns, disrupt force couple/length tension relationships in the muscles and keep your body from performing optimally.

Torn ligaments can occur from a variety of things with pattern overload being one of them. If you move in one range of motion (like riding, seated machines, etc) your body won't be able to adapt to additional demands placed upon it. Those stressors (cyclists playing basketball, volleyball, etc without preparing for it) can cause an injury.

Cycling prepares you very well for riding a bike, but that's it. There isn't any funcitonal carry over to anything else we do as upright humans that is improved by riding a bike.

 

[integrate]

At the time of the injury, did you excessively pronate while walking? This can alter alignment of the tibia, femur and pelvic girdle putting rotational stress on lower extremities which can definitely cause repeated strain on soft tissues under load and be a potential cause of tears/ruptures.

 

[alienator]

Of course power meters don't measure power: they either measure the displacement of a material or changes in road slope and air pressure. From those measurements, power is easily calculated. There are very few direct measurements made in science or engineering. They directly measure a parameter from which power is easily calculated. They also do not measure joint stability. Sorry. Power output can be affected by joint stability, but the power meter doesn't know that. Oh, wait.....you're trying to sell something, aren't you! Why, I see it right there in your signature. How cleverly spammy!

I'll bet the "experiment" you did up Blandor Rd was so poorly constrained that someone credible couldn't draw any specific conclusions from it other than one day you went up Blandor Rd with "40" less of something over the course of that ride.

 

[integrate]

I'm definitely not trying to sell. If anything because I'm in the States and this is based on the other side of the Atlantic (if I read it correctly) and I'm thinking there is a little hurdle for new clients right there. I'm sharing information because actual strength and conditioning information off the bike is hard to come by for the casual cyclist.

The signature was there to take the "who the hell is this guy" aspect of the post (even though that's probably still the main thought people are having!). Even if people think this is the biggest load of hooey they've ever read, at least they know I'm a credeu lntialed trainer (National Academy of Sports Medicine Performance Enhancement Specialist, Corrective Exercise Specialist and Certified Personal Trainer.)

If you liked this, wait until you read the seated machine article. Leg press, ham curls and knee extension and how they will not make you a better cyclists.

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by integrate .

I'm definitely not trying to sell. If anything because I'm in the States and this is based on the other side of the Atlantic (if I read it correctly) and I'm thinking there is a little hurdle for new clients right there. I'm sharing information because actual strength and conditioning information off the bike is hard to come by for the casual cyclist.

The signature was there to take the "who the hell is this guy" aspect of the post (even though that's probably still the main thought people are having!). Even if people think this is the biggest load of hooey they've ever read, at least they know I'm a credeu lntialed trainer (National Academy of Sports Medicine Performance Enhancement Specialist, Corrective Exercise Specialist and Certified Personal Trainer.)

If you liked this, wait until you read the seated machine article. Leg press, ham curls and knee extension and how they will not make you a better cyclists.

Oh, you're trying to sell something alright. I don't know how much credibility your signature gives re: discrete measurements, power meters, and what it takes to set up an experiment. For the record, credibility doesn't count for much at all compared to data, proper experimental technique and experiment setup, and repeatability (by people other than you, most importantly). I think what you're really doing in your sig is trying to sell people with wowzie things that really don't amount to anything that support your claims so far.

So far, you've offered zero support for you claim. Nada. Zero proof. You have however come off reading just like one of those infomercial talking heads. I can't wait until you start talking up the glass froster and potato dicer.

 

[integrate]

Rats, you found out my master scheme: time shares and snuggies! I actually do have data from my team on Strava.com (killer site, if you have a Garmin, you can rank yourself against every other rider who has ridden what you have on/off road). Tons of field tests too. So the words have the science behind them.

At any rate, if you want a time share or a snuggie (I'll even throw in a CHAMWOW!!) I'm your guy. If not, then you'll have to settle for sarcasm and exercise info.

Look up articles by Paul Chek, Mike Boyle, Mel Siff, Stuart McGill (awesome spine biomechanics guy) and Eric Cressey. Those are the guys I follow, and they always have killer insights into how to make the body move better.

If you really want to have a "this guy's full of it" moment, check out Alwyn Cosgrove and his articles on why endurance sports can cause you to gain fat.

 

[bgoetz]

I actually think I understand and agree with what the OP is trying to state. I think his theory helps explain why cycling by cycling alone requires so much time to master, and why someone who is a great runner (i.e. has great VO2 capacity and a great LT in the legs) is not necessarily a great cyclist. I think it also explains why I was able to go from a functional weight training background with a very minimal cardio base and excel at cycling. The new generation of cyclist are not built on the road they are built in the gym by strategically strengthening legs and ligaments to take the force that is being applied throughout the pedal stroke.

What comes to mind is the 700whp Honda civics that run the same 1/4 mile time as a RWD car with 3/4 the power to weight because they either can't hook up or bust drive train parts every time that they do. Sure they put down 700whp on a dyno where there is minimal load being applied to the drive train, but functionally they can only put down 3/4 of that before the tires let loose or they break something. A power meter is measuring what the cyclist can put to the pavement, not what the engine is capable of.......

A significant amount of my time in the off-season is and will continue to be spent doing funtional strength training (Yoga, P90x, complex leg lifting, simple leg lifting, core strengthening, etc.)

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by bgoetz .

I actually think I understand and agree with what the OP is trying to state. I think his theory helps explain why cycling by cycling alone requires so much time to master, and why someone who is a great runner (i.e. has great VO2 capacity and a great LT in the legs) is not necessarily a great cyclist. I think it also explains why I was able to go from a functional weight training background with a very minimal cardio base and excel at cycling. The new generation of cyclist are not built on the road they are built in the gym by strategically strengthening legs and ligaments to take the force that is being applied throughout the pedal stroke.

What comes to mind is the 700whp Honda civics that run the same 1/4 mile time as a RWD car with 3/4 the power to weight because they either can't hook up or bust drive train parts every time that they do. Sure they put down 700whp on a dyno where there is minimal load being applied to the drive train, but functionally they can only put down 3/4 of that before the tires let loose or they break something. A power meter is measuring what the cyclist can put to the pavement, not what the engine is capable of.......

A significant amount of my time in the off-season is and will continue to be spent doing funtional strength training (Yoga, P90x, complex leg lifting, simple leg lifting, core strengthening, etc.)

There's nothing at all to support the idea that the new generation of cyclists isn't built on the road, that they are built in the gym. That's a very myopic view.

As far as a power meter goes, it's just a tool. It's stupid to think otherwise. As many people know, power meters can be used to train more effectively, and they can also be used poorly. So what? How does that address the patently stupid statement that "power meters don't actually measure power"? The car analogy just doesn't fit at all. No one ever claimed that a power meter measured what "the engine is capable of." In fact, it be pretty stupid to do so. What knowledgeable people have correctly stated is that a power meter can be an extremely valuable tool in training, a tool that can not only maximize how much of that potential is extracted from that metaphoric engine, it can help increase the potential of that "engine".

The OP hasn't yet burped up his marketing pitch. It will be coming, I'm sure.

 

[tonyzackery]

Not taking this thread on a tangent, but...

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/487989/reason-critical-thought-and-listening

And the utilization of the word "stupid" three times in one paragraph exemplifies this alleged alteration in consciousness, yes? No? I'm just saying...

 

[integrate]

I have burped up the mktg pitch: time shares and snuggies, must have missed it. You don't have to agree with the info, and there mere fact it has met with so much skepticism means people are thinking about it.

Power meters DO measure power, but that measurement is the effectiveness of your neuromuscular coordination and how much muscle your brain is turning on as you move. That's the point of the OP.

 

[integrate]

Originally Posted by alienator .

Of course power meters don't measure power: they either measure the displacement of a material or changes in road slope and air pressure. From those measurements, power is easily calculated. There are very few direct measurements made in science or engineering. They directly measure a parameter from which power is easily calculated. They also do not measure joint stability. Sorry. Power output can be affected by joint stability, but the power meter doesn't know that. Oh, wait.....you're trying to sell something, aren't you! Why, I see it right there in your signature. How cleverly spammy!

I'll bet the "experiment" you did up Blandor Rd was so poorly constrained that someone credible couldn't draw any specific conclusions from it other than one day you went up Blandor Rd with "40" less of something over the course of that ride.

The day I went up, I was on four straight days of 3-4 hours of sleep (new daughter!), a cold, stiff low back and generally feeling like hell. I did some "joint opener" drills at the base of the climb, and when I reached the top, I had PR'd.