Tim McNamara <
[email protected]> writes:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Bill Westphal <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Tim McNamara <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>> > Victor Kan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The ones on the shorts I like are more like 1/8" thick rather than
>> >> 1/4" thick.
>> >
>> > I agree. A thick chamois just bunches up and causes problems. I
>> > have some old Pearl Izumi shorts which have a really thin chamois
>> > and are my most comfortable shorts. New PI's have this weird
>> > variable thickness blue 3D thing that is not very comfortable.
>> >
>> > Who makes good quality shorts with a thin chamois?
>>
>> Boure (boure.com), Voler (volowear.com for non custom design),
>> Castelli (from various retailers). Castelli is way too pricy, but
>> the first 2 are quite reasonable and very high quality. The newer
>> Pearlizumi and Assos have very thick pads. Pearlizumi doesn't have
>> the quality of the others, but the Boure and Voler are just as well
>> made and designed as the Assos, at a fraction of the cost. Also, I
>> prefer unbranded when possible, and those first 2 fit the bill.
>
> Thanks, Bill. I've never tried Voler shorts nor Boure so the
> recommendation is appreciated. Pearl Izumi's overall quality appears to
> have declined over the past few years (I have three "generations" of PI
> shorts to compare) and the chamois is now so diaper-like that it is
> really annoying.
>
> The Voler hype is a bit much, though with "Quantum DSX fabric" and an
> "anatomically sculpted silhouette with the benefits of "Carbon Micro
> Mesh panels provide maximum breathability for comfort, and the exclusive
> anti-bacterial 3-tier molded Ion pad puts padding where needed for
> specific pressure points with minimal material on the sides to conform
> to your movement."
>
> Yikes, I just want some shorts. Presumably the less breathless and
> cheaper Voler shorts (e.g., the Equipe) are less intimidating.
>
I have team-ordered Voler kit with 1.5 years heavy wear/tear, but in
new condition and all I recall is the Ion pad on the bibs & knickers,
but not so sure about all the other great "features", or whether what
I have is one or the other, or the cheap one with the "nice" pad, or
what. I think there was a $10 upcharge for the ion pad, so I checked
that box on a whim. The one you mention is just a little more cost
than the "cheap" stuff, but I guess the only way to compare is buy one
of each and use them for several years, and reflect. I think if you're
going to spend 10,000 hrs in them it's probably to too extravagant to
spend an extra $20 for "anatomically sculpted silhouette" and other
features. I'm guessing that company has to be more on the level with
their product quality than most because I suspect a vast majority of
their customers actually ride bikes, a lot, as opposed to PI customers
in places like Performance Bike, where most customers don't actually
wear the stuff out by use so much as with time, the elastic drying out
after 10 years, or whatnot. I guess it's a good business decision to
make it good enough for 99.9% of the customers, and assume the .1% who
put on miles to wear it out are most likely going to buy high-end (but
inconvenient to purchase and size) stuff with the price held down
through elimination of aggressive marketing. Boure is pretty much a
one-man front end so far as I can tell. Voler mainly takes large
volume team orders, and uses the on-line store to unload overrun. I
think they both rely heavily on word of mouth of serious cyclists, and
reputation, and repeat business. I think they're going for the
"European" quality, and building up a base of customers and
reputation. It's a business model I admire.
> I am always a bit bemused by the sport clothing industry. They develop
> a good design that works well, such as PI's shorts of 6-7 years ago, and
> then keep changing it every year to make it "new and improved" but it
> works less well with each iteration.
Much of that change comes from manufacturing in a new place. The know
it's going to be different, and most likely worse, so they counteract
that force by hyping up the marketing, using lucrative American
business ethics. Ecco shoes moved some manufacturing from Denmark to
Portugal, and it was an entirely different shoe, despite appearance
and model name. I really felt conned by my favorite shoe company, and
that was the end of them.
I had a cheap red PI jersey bleed in delicate cycle Woolite onto very
$$ stuff w/ white, and that was the end of PI for me, forever, even if
I can't bring myself to actually throw it in the trash. I'd assumed
they are going Chinese, and not bothering with quality control, so I
lost all respect. I'd be surprised to know of any high volume
manufacturer not at least dabbling in Chinese, just to keep the prices
down sufficiently to stay in business. Catering to the cost-conscious
PI customer, e.g., comparing to the "house brand". But Japanese used
to equate to "junk", so I guess soon "Made in China" will eventually
be a big selling point. (All high-end name brand hiking boots are
made in China, and are $100-150 and very high quality.)
The Boure is from Durango, Colorado, and Voler, California, but my
legs are too sore to get up to hike to the closet to check where
they're actually made.
Bill Westphal