Question - Mavic Open Pro CD rim 32 hole - rear

[kwalters]

Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
use my existing spokes.

Thanks. Ken

And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
time.

 

[[email protected]]

On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> use my existing spokes.
>
> Thanks. Ken
>
> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> time.

you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes. the open pro is
excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
at the rim from tire psi (100-110)

 

[Colin Campbell]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>> use my existing spokes.
>>
>> Thanks. Ken
>>
>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>> time.
>
> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes. the open pro is
> excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
> I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
> at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>
I had a beautiful pair of Open Pro blue anodized rims on my bike. I had
a spoke break, and "semi-trued" the wheel so I could get to the bike
shop. The owner congratulated me on my work, but said there was a crack
at one spoke hole.

By then, Mavic had stopped making the blue rims, so I got talked into a
silver one. Soon, spokes were popping, and after about the third try at
fixing the problem, we looked really closely at the rim. No fewer than
ten of the spoke holes showed cracks!

I ended up with a Velocity Areo blue rim in the rear - not an exact
match in color, but close enough, and no problems. The Mavic rim
soldiers on in front....

By the way, I was a 190 lb rider at the time; I'm now a sub-180 lb rider.

 

[Johnny Sunset]

On Jun 26, 5:11 pm, raam? wrote:
> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, Ken Walters wrote:
>
> > Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> > and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> > would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> > use my existing spokes.
>
> > Thanks. Ken
>
> > And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> > expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> > time.
>
> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes....

JB appears to disagree and his arguments for re-using spokes also
appear rational: <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[jim beam]

Colin Campbell wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>> use my existing spokes.
>>>
>>> Thanks. Ken
>>>
>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>> time.
>>
>> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes. the open pro is
>> excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
>> I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
>> at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>>
> I had a beautiful pair of Open Pro blue anodized rims on my bike. I had
> a spoke break, and "semi-trued" the wheel so I could get to the bike
> shop. The owner congratulated me on my work, but said there was a crack
> at one spoke hole.
>
> By then, Mavic had stopped making the blue rims, so I got talked into a
> silver one. Soon, spokes were popping, and after about the third try at
> fixing the problem, we looked really closely at the rim. No fewer than
> ten of the spoke holes showed cracks!
>
> I ended up with a Velocity Areo blue rim in the rear - not an exact
> match in color, but close enough, and no problems. The Mavic rim
> soldiers on in front....
>
> By the way, I was a 190 lb rider at the time; I'm now a sub-180 lb rider.

and the question to both of you is, what was your spoke tension? did
you use a tensiometer?

 

[jim beam]

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 26, 5:11 pm, raam? wrote:
>> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, Ken Walters wrote:
>>
>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>> use my existing spokes.
>>> Thanks. Ken
>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>> time.
>> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes....
>
> JB appears to disagree and his arguments for re-using spokes also
> appear rational: <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html>.
>
for stainless spokes, since they have no endurance limit, it's not
rational at all. it may be practical if you're out in the wilds. it
may be cheap if you're doing it yourself. but as engineering advice, it
makes as much sense as re-using toilet paper.

 

[Johnny Sunset]

On Jun 26, 10:40 pm, "jim beam"? wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> > On Jun 26, 5:11 pm, raam? wrote:
> >> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, Ken Walters wrote:
>
> >>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> >>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> >>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> >>> use my existing spokes.
> >>> Thanks. Ken
> >>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> >>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> >>> time.
> >> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes....
>
> > JB appears to disagree and his arguments for re-using spokes also
> > appear rational: <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html>.
>
> for stainless spokes, since they have no endurance limit, it's not
> rational at all. it may be practical if you're out in the wilds. it
> may be cheap if you're doing it yourself. but as engineering advice, it
> makes as much sense as re-using toilet paper.

Well, the spokes in question have already outlasted one rim. If they
last at least as long as the replacement rim (an excellent possibility
if rim brakes are used and the bike is sometimes ridden in the rain,
and a good possibility anyhow, the savings in time and money would be
worth it, compared to replacing the spokes.

Even if a spoke or two broke over the life of the replacement rim, the
bike could likely still be ridden well enough to get home.

Pace mr. beam, but just because Jobst Brandt advocates an idea, does
not a priori make it a bad one.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[jim beam]

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 26, 10:40 pm, "jim beam"? wrote:
>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>> On Jun 26, 5:11 pm, raam? wrote:
>>>> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, Ken Walters wrote:
>>>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>>>> use my existing spokes.
>>>>> Thanks. Ken
>>>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>>>> time.
>>>> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes....
>>> JB appears to disagree and his arguments for re-using spokes also
>>> appear rational: <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html>.
>> for stainless spokes, since they have no endurance limit, it's not
>> rational at all. it may be practical if you're out in the wilds. it
>> may be cheap if you're doing it yourself. but as engineering advice, it
>> makes as much sense as re-using toilet paper.
>
> Well, the spokes in question have already outlasted one rim. If they
> last at least as long as the replacement rim (an excellent possibility
> if rim brakes are used and the bike is sometimes ridden in the rain,
> and a good possibility anyhow, the savings in time and money would be
> worth it, compared to replacing the spokes.
>
> Even if a spoke or two broke over the life of the replacement rim, the
> bike could likely still be ridden well enough to get home.
>
> Pace mr. beam, but just because Jobst Brandt advocates an idea, does
> not a priori make it a bad one.
>
correct, but the logic is wrong. /your/ logic is dead right. /his/
logic is that the spokes have somehow been "cured" of their disease,
which is pure b.s.

 

[[email protected]]

On Jun 26, 11:40 pm, jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
> Colin Campbell wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> >>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> >>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> >>> use my existing spokes.
>
> >>> Thanks. Ken
>
> >>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> >>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> >>> time.
>
> >> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes. the open pro is
> >> excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
> >> I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
> >> at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>
> > I had a beautiful pair of Open Pro blue anodized rims on my bike. I had
> > a spoke break, and "semi-trued" the wheel so I could get to the bike
> > shop. The owner congratulated me on my work, but said there was a crack
> > at one spoke hole.
>
> > By then, Mavic had stopped making the blue rims, so I got talked into a
> > silver one. Soon, spokes were popping, and after about the third try at
> > fixing the problem, we looked really closely at the rim. No fewer than
> > ten of the spoke holes showed cracks!
>
> > I ended up with a Velocity Areo blue rim in the rear - not an exact
> > match in color, but close enough, and no problems. The Mavic rim
> > soldiers on in front....
>
> > By the way, I was a 190 lb rider at the time; I'm now a sub-180 lb rider.
>
> and the question to both of you is, what was your spoke tension? did
> you use a tensiometer?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

don't know, this was before tensionmeters were invented....but I was
handbuilding my wheels thanx to jobst' book, tensioning by feel, dt
double butted spokes- wheels held true till the rim would crack- oh, a
LOT of kms about 2000kms per month - more in the summer, less in winter

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:

> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> use my existing spokes.
>
> Thanks. Ken
>
> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> time.

Mavic rims currently sell for much more than they are
worth. Ask for recommendations on a more robust rim for
far less money, such as a Sun CR-18.

--
Michael Press

 

[Johnny Sunset]

On Jun 26, 11:35 pm, "jim beam" wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> > On Jun 26, 10:40 pm, "jim beam"? wrote:
> >> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >>> On Jun 26, 5:11 pm, raam? wrote:
> >>>> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, Ken Walters wrote:
> >>>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> >>>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> >>>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> >>>>> use my existing spokes.
> >>>>> Thanks. Ken
> >>>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> >>>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> >>>>> time.
> >>>> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes....
> >>> JB appears to disagree and his arguments for re-using spokes also
> >>> appear rational: <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html>.
> >> for stainless spokes, since they have no endurance limit, it's not
> >> rational at all. it may be practical if you're out in the wilds. it
> >> may be cheap if you're doing it yourself. but as engineering advice, it
> >> makes as much sense as re-using toilet paper.
>
> > Well, the spokes in question have already outlasted one rim. If they
> > last at least as long as the replacement rim (an excellent possibility
> > if rim brakes are used and the bike is sometimes ridden in the rain,
> > and a good possibility anyhow, the savings in time and money would be
> > worth it, compared to replacing the spokes.
>
> > Even if a spoke or two broke over the life of the replacement rim, the
> > bike could likely still be ridden well enough to get home.
>
> > Pace mr. beam, but just because Jobst Brandt advocates an idea, does
> > not a priori make it a bad one.
>
> correct, but the logic is wrong. /your/ logic is dead right. /his/
> logic is that the spokes have somehow been "cured" of their disease,
> which is pure b.s.

Whether Jobst Brandt's theory of stress relief is correct or "jim
beam's" argument for better quality steel, or a combination of the two
for the improved durability of spokes does not matter much in this
case. Decent quality stainless steel spokes will generally outlast a
rim used with rim brakes. Therefore, I will continue to dissent from
"raam's" comment that "you aren't going to help things re-using old
spokes", assuming the original poster's spokes are reasonable quality.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Johnny Sunset]

On Jun 27, 12:08 am, Michael Press wrote:
> ...
> Mavic rims currently sell for much more than they are
> worth. Ask for recommendations on a more robust rim for
> far less money, such as a Sun CR-18.

butbutbut, the Sun CR-18 is so plain!

(I should know, I have a bike in my bedroom with a Sun CR-18 rim.)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Gary Young]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:35:48 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> On Jun 26, 10:40 pm, "jim beam"? wrote:
>>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>>> On Jun 26, 5:11 pm, raam? wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, Ken Walters wrote:
>>>>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>>>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>>>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>>>>> use my existing spokes.
>>>>>> Thanks. Ken
>>>>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>>>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>>>>> time.
>>>>> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes....
>>>> JB appears to disagree and his arguments for re-using spokes also
>>>> appear rational: <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html>.
>>> for stainless spokes, since they have no endurance limit, it's not
>>> rational at all. it may be practical if you're out in the wilds. it
>>> may be cheap if you're doing it yourself. but as engineering advice, it
>>> makes as much sense as re-using toilet paper.

Nonsense. If the time to fatigue is sufficiently long, then it's perfectly
rational to reuse spokes. The fact that some of us have been able to reuse
spokes with no problems shows that the time to fatigue is sufficiently
long.


>>
>> Well, the spokes in question have already outlasted one rim. If they
>> last at least as long as the replacement rim (an excellent possibility
>> if rim brakes are used and the bike is sometimes ridden in the rain,
>> and a good possibility anyhow, the savings in time and money would be
>> worth it, compared to replacing the spokes.
>>
>> Even if a spoke or two broke over the life of the replacement rim, the
>> bike could likely still be ridden well enough to get home.
>>
>> Pace mr. beam, but just because Jobst Brandt advocates an idea, does
>> not a priori make it a bad one.
>>
> correct, but the logic is wrong. /your/ logic is dead right. /his/
> logic is that the spokes have somehow been "cured" of their disease,
> which is pure b.s.

Just to set the record straight, the argument is that the spokes have been
stress-relieved.

 

[Peter Cole]

kwalters wrote:
> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> use my existing spokes.
>
> Thanks. Ken
>
> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> time.
>

Just another data point: I'm 225lb and have had good luck with Open
Pro's (although I think they're overpriced). I too have been forced to
re-rim with Mavic just to save the spokes. I don't think there's any
reason to re-spoke, since spokes should last through many rims. FWIW,
the MA-3 was known to have problems.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jun 26, 3:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> use my existing spokes.
>
> Thanks. Ken
>
> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> time.

Open Pro ERD is 605..MA-3 was 608...MA-3 were a poor design/poor
materials. OpenSport is a much better rim and same ERD..buuilt many w/
o any problems so far.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jun 26, 4:11 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> > and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> > would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> > use my existing spokes.
>
> > Thanks. Ken
>
> > And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> > expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> > time.
>
> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes.


Reusing 'old' spokes is no problem. The weak point of any wheel,
except from a poor build, is the rim..not the spokes. I reuse them all
the time w/o problem.

the open pro is
> excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
> I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
> at the rim from tire psi (100-110)

OpenPro didn't exist 10 years ago, The Open SUP was excellent, the
next Mavic rim, the 'Reflex' was awful, lasted 1 year..Open Pro,
except for noisey eyelets and wedge, is an OK rim. All rims crack at
the sidewall when it gets thin from braking.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jun 26, 3:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> use my existing spokes.
>
> Thanks. Ken
>
> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> time.

BTW-Just built another set of DT rr 1.1(dbl eyelet) wheels last night
and once more I am very impressed by their quality..well worth the $5
more than OpenPro..wish they made a 36h tho-

 

[[email protected]]

On Jun 27, 8:21 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 26, 4:11 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> > > and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> > > would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> > > use my existing spokes.
>
> > > Thanks. Ken
>
> > > And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> > > expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> > > time.
>
> > you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes.
>
> Reusing 'old' spokes is no problem. The weak point of any wheel,
> except from a poor build, is the rim..not the spokes. I reuse them all
> the time w/o problem.
>
> the open pro is
>
> > excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
> > I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
> > at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>
> OpenPro didn't exist 10 years ago, The Open SUP was excellent, the
> next Mavic rim, the 'Reflex' was awful, lasted 1 year..Open Pro,
> except for noisey eyelets and wedge, is an OK rim. All rims crack at
> the sidewall when it gets thin from braking.

yeah, well, I just bought and used mavic open series rims, never
really noticed the difference in the names- as opposed to selling
them, I just rode them and liked them a lot; certainly for the smooth
braking surface. the point about not re-using old spokes was truing by
hand as opposed to tensionmeter, is that you need the same feel with
all the spokes, when they are used, even with a quick rim swap, I
found the truing process harder and "less true" with grime collected
on the threads for the nipples and finger-tips from spoke plucking-
not to mention the grain and even overall length of a used spoke will
interfere with that feel. Further, I find it difficult to believe that
a used spoke which has it's own unique bend or shape and length
according to it's previous life- will be able to instantly adapt to
the new shape required of a new rim; meaning that I believe the used
spoke will hold much of it's old shape and gradually adapt to the new
shape following which, the wheel will no longer be in balance with all
the forces that held it true- it will require frequent re-truing which
is indicative of a weaker wheel.

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Jun 26, 11:40 pm, jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Colin Campbell wrote:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>>>> use my existing spokes.
>>>>> Thanks. Ken
>>>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>>>> time.
>>>> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes. the open pro is
>>>> excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
>>>> I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
>>>> at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>>> I had a beautiful pair of Open Pro blue anodized rims on my bike. I had
>>> a spoke break, and "semi-trued" the wheel so I could get to the bike
>>> shop. The owner congratulated me on my work, but said there was a crack
>>> at one spoke hole.
>>> By then, Mavic had stopped making the blue rims, so I got talked into a
>>> silver one. Soon, spokes were popping, and after about the third try at
>>> fixing the problem, we looked really closely at the rim. No fewer than
>>> ten of the spoke holes showed cracks!
>>> I ended up with a Velocity Areo blue rim in the rear - not an exact
>>> match in color, but close enough, and no problems. The Mavic rim
>>> soldiers on in front....
>>> By the way, I was a 190 lb rider at the time; I'm now a sub-180 lb rider.
>> and the question to both of you is, what was your spoke tension? did
>> you use a tensiometer?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> don't know, this was before tensionmeters were invented....but I was
> handbuilding my wheels thanx to jobst' book, tensioning by feel, dt
> double butted spokes- wheels held true till the rim would crack- oh, a
> LOT of kms about 2000kms per month - more in the summer, less in winter
>
so why is it that /i/ who builds with a tensiometer, and who weighs
#205-#210, has never had a cracked rim in a normal wheel? the only rim
i've ever cracked is where spoke tension was above 2000N.

 

[[email protected]]

On Jun 27, 8:13 am, Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
> kwalters wrote:
> > Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> > and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> > would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> > use my existing spokes.
>
> > Thanks. Ken
>
> > And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> > expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> > time.
>
> Just another data point: I'm 225lb and have had good luck with Open
> Pro's (although I think they're overpriced). I too have been forced to
> re-rim with Mavic just to save the spokes. I don't think there's any
> reason to re-spoke, since spokes should last through many rims. FWIW,
> the MA-3 was known to have problems.

overpriced ? think of what you are getting for that money, how many
hours and hours of riding is bought with that money ? I don't know
why, but I think us cyclists are about the cheapest folk on the
planet- but really, when you look at cycling from the point of view of
how far you can go and how many hours of enjoyment you can spend for
that little money it's a bargain beyond compare, right up there with
free water. just my opinion.