Riding with courage

[Badger_South]

When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?

I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability. It
takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared consensus
of what that means in the biking lexicon.

-B

 

[Arthur Harris]

"Badger_South" wrote:
> When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
> get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?

Yes, it means "he's suffering like he's never suffered before."

Art Harris

 

[GW2G]

I know what the commentators mean, but "courage" is one of those cliche phrases
used all too often in sports. I know they are praising an athlete's ability to
face adversity and dig deep to find hidden reserves. That is "perseverance".
I am not disparaging the rider, just the verbage.

Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not. One lesson
we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true warrior is and who
those people are who show true courage.

Let's admire athletes (riders in this case) for their incredible physical and
mental abilities. We can look at their feats and be left in awe at talents
they have the rest of us can only dream about. But we should be careful about
the labels we use to describe them.

 

[Rich Clark]

"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
> get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?


"I want to be the world's greatest Frenchman." Now that takes courage! <g>

RichC

 

[Roger Zoul]

Badger_South wrote:
|| When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
|| get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?

Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage have to do
with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the front? I'd call that
determination or a strong desire to win...

||
|| I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
|| should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability.

That doesn't sound too smart, B, if it's really true. Being a little tired
is not the same as what those TdF guys are doing....imo.

It
|| takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
|| your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared
|| consensus of what that means in the biking lexicon.

Yeah, that would be courage, but I don't think that's what's happening in
the TdF bicycle race.

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage have to do
> with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the front?

Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
burning up all his reserves?

Anyhow, I think Thomas Voeckler has put a lot of heart into
his riding, and deserves somewhat more recognition than I've
seen in the media. It's all just Lance, Lance, Lance.


cheers,
Tom

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[Roger Zoul]

Tom Keats wrote:
|| In article <[email protected]>,
|| "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
|||
||| Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage
||| have to do with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the
||| front?
||
|| Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
|| burning up all his reserves?

Good point. Of course, doing that early on might be "not smart" moreso than
a display of courage.

||
|| Anyhow, I think Thomas Voeckler has put a lot of heart into
|| his riding, and deserves somewhat more recognition than I've
|| seen in the media. It's all just Lance, Lance, Lance.

I agree. However, Lance is very calculating and he doesn't expend any extra
energy in a race if it doesn't have a very definite payoff. Amazing, if you
ask me. Compared to him, everyone else seems to behave in a *****-nilly
fashon (no real game plan). Perhaps it's because only a few of the races
really hope to win the TdF.

 

[Daniel Crispin]

That's called Bias... I am sure in France they are only talking about
Voeckler.

"Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> > Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage have to
do
> > with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the front?
>
> Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
> burning up all his reserves?
>
> Anyhow, I think Thomas Voeckler has put a lot of heart into
> his riding, and deserves somewhat more recognition than I've
> seen in the media. It's all just Lance, Lance, Lance.
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
> --
> -- Powered by FreeBSD
> Above address is just a spam midden.
> I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:

> Tom Keats wrote:
>|| In article <[email protected]>,
>|| "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
>|||
>||| Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage
>||| have to do with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the
>||| front?
>||
>|| Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
>|| burning up all his reserves?
>
> Good point. Of course, doing that early on might be "not smart" moreso than
> a display of courage.

On re-watching today's stage, the bit about 'courage' was attributed
to Laurent Fignon, talking about Voeckler's hanging back on the
ascents and staying out of the red zone, then using his 'courage'
to get over the hump and down the other side. In which case,
coming up from behind and cutting through the thick of the pack
to return toward the front might be pretty courageous.


cheers,
Tom

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[Neil Cherry]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:56:02 -0400, Rich Clark wrote:
>
> "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
>> get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?
>
>
> "I want to be the world's greatest Frenchman." Now that takes courage! <g>

You want to be Jean-Luc Picard?

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http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
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[Roger Zoul]

Tom Keats wrote:
|| In article <[email protected]>,
|| "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
||
||| Tom Keats wrote:
||||| In article <[email protected]>,
||||| "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
||||||
|||||| Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage
|||||| have to do with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the
|||||| front?
|||||
||||| Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
||||| burning up all his reserves?
|||
||| Good point. Of course, doing that early on might be "not smart"
||| moreso than a display of courage.
||
|| On re-watching today's stage, the bit about 'courage' was attributed
|| to Laurent Fignon, talking about Voeckler's hanging back on the
|| ascents and staying out of the red zone, then using his 'courage'
|| to get over the hump and down the other side. In which case,
|| coming up from behind and cutting through the thick of the pack
|| to return toward the front might be pretty courageous.

Funny....I watched it and I didn't find it an example of courage. It would
have more courageous for him to stay toward the front or even try to win.

 

[Bax]

Very eloquent and thoughtful response.

"GW2G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I know what the commentators mean, but "courage" is one of those cliche
phrases
> used all too often in sports. I know they are praising an athlete's
ability to
> face adversity and dig deep to find hidden reserves. That is
"perseverance".
> I am not disparaging the rider, just the verbage.
>
> Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not. One
lesson
> we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true warrior is and who
> those people are who show true courage.
>
> Let's admire athletes (riders in this case) for their incredible physical
and
> mental abilities. We can look at their feats and be left in awe at
talents
> they have the rest of us can only dream about. But we should be careful
about
> the labels we use to describe them.

 

[psycholist]

"Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
> > get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?
>
>
> "I want to be the world's greatest Frenchman." Now that takes courage!
<g>
>
> RichC
>
>

That would make you an oximoron.

Bob C.

 

[psycholist]

"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
> get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?
>
> I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
> should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability. It
> takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
> your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared consensus
> of what that means in the biking lexicon.
>
> -B
>

I've read all the replies you've gotten so far and I don't think they picked
up on what you were really asking.

I recall a century I was on several years ago. I was with five guys and we
were off the front going at a pace I'd never gone before. I kept thinking
to myself, "I can't keep this up for five hours." It kept running through
my mind that I should sit up and wait for a group to come along that was
going more "my pace." But then I'd resist that thought and just fight to
take my pulls. Soon I was realizing how and when to get a little recovery
and that I COULD keep that pace. And it turned out I didn't need to keep it
for 5 hours 'cuz we finishing 102 miles in 4:34. That was an enormous
breakthrough ride for me.

I wouldn't call it "courage." But I'd say I plumbed the depths of my mental
and physical strengths and learned something new about my limits.

Having said that, maybe there is an element of courage in that. I think it
takes a bit of courage for a person to test their limits.

One other thing I learned on that ride that's stuck with me ever since ...
about the time you think you're just gonna die, know that everyone else is
probably feeling the same way. Before I realized that, there were a number
of times that I'd sit up and watch the lead group ride away, only to see
them just linger tantalizingly close in the distance. They'd obviously
backed off a notch. But I was too cooked to close. I learned that, if I
could go just a few clicks farther into the red zone, I'd be with them when
they backed off a notch ... and with them again when they put the hammer
back down. A few extra hard seconds trying to hang on with faster riders
can, in the longer run, save you from having to do a long individual time
trial.

Bob C.

 

[curt]

"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
> get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?

Of course it has meaning to me. They guy is in yellow and wants to defend it
as long as he can. It would be a huge motivator and the fans go crazy over
the yellow.

Curt

 

[Chalo]

[email protected] (GW2G) wrote:

> Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not. One
> lesson we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true warrior
> is and who those people are who show true courage.

Pat Tillman was a murderer, a blinkered toady, a sociopath, a moral
imbecile, a fiduciary fool, a juvenile delinquent, and a *pendejo* of
the first water. When he was fragged by his fellow stormtrooper
thugs, he just got what each and every single one of them deserve.

What he was _not_ was courageous. Tillman and the other lowly goons
who work on behalf of the American aggressor regime to murder and
beleaguer the pitiful, poor, desperately outgunned, but fiercely
courageous partisans of an occupied land are not brave, but rather the
opposite. Like all bullies, they are essentially cowards.

Chalo Colina

 

[R15757]

Bob C. wrote in part:

<< Having said that, maybe there is an element of courage in that. I think it
takes a bit of courage for a person to test their limits. >>

Agree on that. Most riders don't know what they can or can't do because they
don't have the courage to go find out.

Robert

 

[S o r n i]

Chalo wrote:
> [email protected] (GW2G) wrote:
>
>> Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not.
>> One lesson we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true
>> warrior is and who those people are who show true courage.
>
> Pat Tillman was a murderer, a blinkered toady, a sociopath, a moral
> imbecile, a fiduciary fool, a juvenile delinquent, and a *pendejo* of
> the first water. When he was fragged by his fellow stormtrooper
> thugs, he just got what each and every single one of them deserve.
>
> What he was _not_ was courageous. Tillman and the other lowly goons
> who work on behalf of the American aggressor regime to murder and
> beleaguer the pitiful, poor, desperately outgunned, but fiercely
> courageous partisans of an occupied land are not brave, but rather the
> opposite. Like all bullies, they are essentially cowards.

He died so you and other terrorist supporters could spout such vile bile (he
was in Afghanistan, not Iraq, in case you forgot).

My bet is you'd **** your pants if he stood in front of you and twitched an
eye.

You're disgusting.

Bill "new low, even for you" S.

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:09:43 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]>
wrote:

>When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
>get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?
>
>I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
>should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability. It
>takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
>your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared consensus
>of what that means in the biking lexicon.

I can't help but think maybe there's a linguistic angle here, that
there's a shade of meaning for "courage" in French that might cover
precisely what you're on about.

Can any Francophones out there comment?

-Luigi

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On 18 Jul 2004 22:55:32 -0700, [email protected] (Chalo) wrote:

>[email protected] (GW2G) wrote:
>
>> Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not. One
>> lesson we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true warrior
>> is and who those people are who show true courage.
>
>Pat Tillman was a murderer, a blinkered toady, a sociopath, a moral
>imbecile, a fiduciary fool, a juvenile delinquent, and a *pendejo* of
>the first water.
<snip remainder>

I thought this level of invective went out at the end of the Great
Proletarian Cultural Revolution.