Riding with courage

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Badger_South, Jul 18, 2004.

  1. Badger_South

    Badger_South Guest

    When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
    get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?

    I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
    should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability. It
    takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
    your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared consensus
    of what that means in the biking lexicon.

    -B
     
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  2. "Badger_South" wrote:
    > When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
    > get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?


    Yes, it means "he's suffering like he's never suffered before."

    Art Harris
     
  3. GW2G

    GW2G Guest

    I know what the commentators mean, but "courage" is one of those cliche phrases
    used all too often in sports. I know they are praising an athlete's ability to
    face adversity and dig deep to find hidden reserves. That is "perseverance".
    I am not disparaging the rider, just the verbage.

    Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not. One lesson
    we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true warrior is and who
    those people are who show true courage.

    Let's admire athletes (riders in this case) for their incredible physical and
    mental abilities. We can look at their feats and be left in awe at talents
    they have the rest of us can only dream about. But we should be careful about
    the labels we use to describe them.
     
  4. Rich Clark

    Rich Clark Guest

    "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
    > get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?



    "I want to be the world's greatest Frenchman." Now that takes courage! <g>

    RichC
     
  5. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Badger_South wrote:
    || When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
    || get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?

    Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage have to do
    with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the front? I'd call that
    determination or a strong desire to win...

    ||
    || I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
    || should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability.

    That doesn't sound too smart, B, if it's really true. Being a little tired
    is not the same as what those TdF guys are doing....imo.

    It
    || takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
    || your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared
    || consensus of what that means in the biking lexicon.

    Yeah, that would be courage, but I don't think that's what's happening in
    the TdF bicycle race.
     
  6. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage have to do
    > with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the front?


    Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
    burning up all his reserves?

    Anyhow, I think Thomas Voeckler has put a lot of heart into
    his riding, and deserves somewhat more recognition than I've
    seen in the media. It's all just Lance, Lance, Lance.


    cheers,
    Tom

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  7. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Tom Keats wrote:
    || In article <[email protected]>,
    || "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
    |||
    ||| Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage
    ||| have to do with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the
    ||| front?
    ||
    || Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
    || burning up all his reserves?

    Good point. Of course, doing that early on might be "not smart" moreso than
    a display of courage.

    ||
    || Anyhow, I think Thomas Voeckler has put a lot of heart into
    || his riding, and deserves somewhat more recognition than I've
    || seen in the media. It's all just Lance, Lance, Lance.

    I agree. However, Lance is very calculating and he doesn't expend any extra
    energy in a race if it doesn't have a very definite payoff. Amazing, if you
    ask me. Compared to him, everyone else seems to behave in a willy-nilly
    fashon (no real game plan). Perhaps it's because only a few of the races
    really hope to win the TdF.
     
  8. That's called Bias... I am sure in France they are only talking about
    Voeckler.

    "Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
    > >
    > > Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage have to

    do
    > > with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the front?

    >
    > Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
    > burning up all his reserves?
    >
    > Anyhow, I think Thomas Voeckler has put a lot of heart into
    > his riding, and deserves somewhat more recognition than I've
    > seen in the media. It's all just Lance, Lance, Lance.
    >
    >
    > cheers,
    > Tom
    >
    > --
    > -- Powered by FreeBSD
    > Above address is just a spam midden.
    > I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  9. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:

    > Tom Keats wrote:
    >|| In article <[email protected]>,
    >|| "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
    >|||
    >||| Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage
    >||| have to do with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the
    >||| front?
    >||
    >|| Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
    >|| burning up all his reserves?
    >
    > Good point. Of course, doing that early on might be "not smart" moreso than
    > a display of courage.


    On re-watching today's stage, the bit about 'courage' was attributed
    to Laurent Fignon, talking about Voeckler's hanging back on the
    ascents and staying out of the red zone, then using his 'courage'
    to get over the hump and down the other side. In which case,
    coming up from behind and cutting through the thick of the pack
    to return toward the front might be pretty courageous.


    cheers,
    Tom

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    Above address is just a spam midden.
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  10. Neil Cherry

    Neil Cherry Guest

    On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:56:02 -0400, Rich Clark wrote:
    >
    > "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
    >> get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?

    >
    >
    > "I want to be the world's greatest Frenchman." Now that takes courage! <g>


    You want to be Jean-Luc Picard?

    --
    Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry [email protected]
    http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only)
    http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
    http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
     
  11. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Tom Keats wrote:
    || In article <[email protected]>,
    || "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
    ||
    ||| Tom Keats wrote:
    ||||| In article <[email protected]>,
    ||||| "Roger Zoul" <rogerz[email protected]> writes:
    ||||||
    |||||| Sounds like the commentator ain't too smart....what does courage
    |||||| have to do with fighting to get from the back of the pack to the
    |||||| front?
    |||||
    ||||| Maybe it has to do with digging deep, potentially prematurely
    ||||| burning up all his reserves?
    |||
    ||| Good point. Of course, doing that early on might be "not smart"
    ||| moreso than a display of courage.
    ||
    || On re-watching today's stage, the bit about 'courage' was attributed
    || to Laurent Fignon, talking about Voeckler's hanging back on the
    || ascents and staying out of the red zone, then using his 'courage'
    || to get over the hump and down the other side. In which case,
    || coming up from behind and cutting through the thick of the pack
    || to return toward the front might be pretty courageous.

    Funny....I watched it and I didn't find it an example of courage. It would
    have more courageous for him to stay toward the front or even try to win.
     
  12. Bax

    Bax Guest

    Very eloquent and thoughtful response.

    "GW2G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I know what the commentators mean, but "courage" is one of those cliche

    phrases
    > used all too often in sports. I know they are praising an athlete's

    ability to
    > face adversity and dig deep to find hidden reserves. That is

    "perseverance".
    > I am not disparaging the rider, just the verbage.
    >
    > Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not. One

    lesson
    > we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true warrior is and who
    > those people are who show true courage.
    >
    > Let's admire athletes (riders in this case) for their incredible physical

    and
    > mental abilities. We can look at their feats and be left in awe at

    talents
    > they have the rest of us can only dream about. But we should be careful

    about
    > the labels we use to describe them.
     
  13. psycholist

    psycholist Guest

    "Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
    > > get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?

    >
    >
    > "I want to be the world's greatest Frenchman." Now that takes courage!

    <g>
    >
    > RichC
    >
    >


    That would make you an oximoron.

    Bob C.
     
  14. psycholist

    psycholist Guest

    "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
    > get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?
    >
    > I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
    > should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability. It
    > takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
    > your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared consensus
    > of what that means in the biking lexicon.
    >
    > -B
    >


    I've read all the replies you've gotten so far and I don't think they picked
    up on what you were really asking.

    I recall a century I was on several years ago. I was with five guys and we
    were off the front going at a pace I'd never gone before. I kept thinking
    to myself, "I can't keep this up for five hours." It kept running through
    my mind that I should sit up and wait for a group to come along that was
    going more "my pace." But then I'd resist that thought and just fight to
    take my pulls. Soon I was realizing how and when to get a little recovery
    and that I COULD keep that pace. And it turned out I didn't need to keep it
    for 5 hours 'cuz we finishing 102 miles in 4:34. That was an enormous
    breakthrough ride for me.

    I wouldn't call it "courage." But I'd say I plumbed the depths of my mental
    and physical strengths and learned something new about my limits.

    Having said that, maybe there is an element of courage in that. I think it
    takes a bit of courage for a person to test their limits.

    One other thing I learned on that ride that's stuck with me ever since ...
    about the time you think you're just gonna die, know that everyone else is
    probably feeling the same way. Before I realized that, there were a number
    of times that I'd sit up and watch the lead group ride away, only to see
    them just linger tantalizingly close in the distance. They'd obviously
    backed off a notch. But I was too cooked to close. I learned that, if I
    could go just a few clicks farther into the red zone, I'd be with them when
    they backed off a notch ... and with them again when they put the hammer
    back down. A few extra hard seconds trying to hang on with faster riders
    can, in the longer run, save you from having to do a long individual time
    trial.

    Bob C.
     
  15. curt

    curt Guest

    "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
    > get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?


    Of course it has meaning to me. They guy is in yellow and wants to defend it
    as long as he can. It would be a huge motivator and the fans go crazy over
    the yellow.

    Curt
     
  16. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    [email protected] (GW2G) wrote:

    > Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not. One
    > lesson we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true warrior
    > is and who those people are who show true courage.


    Pat Tillman was a murderer, a blinkered toady, a sociopath, a moral
    imbecile, a fiduciary fool, a juvenile delinquent, and a *pendejo* of
    the first water. When he was fragged by his fellow stormtrooper
    thugs, he just got what each and every single one of them deserve.

    What he was _not_ was courageous. Tillman and the other lowly goons
    who work on behalf of the American aggressor regime to murder and
    beleaguer the pitiful, poor, desperately outgunned, but fiercely
    courageous partisans of an occupied land are not brave, but rather the
    opposite. Like all bullies, they are essentially cowards.

    Chalo Colina
     
  17. R15757

    R15757 Guest

    Bob C. wrote in part:

    << Having said that, maybe there is an element of courage in that. I think it
    takes a bit of courage for a person to test their limits. >>

    Agree on that. Most riders don't know what they can or can't do because they
    don't have the courage to go find out.

    Robert
     
  18. S o r n i

    S o r n i Guest

    Chalo wrote:
    > [email protected] (GW2G) wrote:
    >
    >> Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not.
    >> One lesson we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true
    >> warrior is and who those people are who show true courage.

    >
    > Pat Tillman was a murderer, a blinkered toady, a sociopath, a moral
    > imbecile, a fiduciary fool, a juvenile delinquent, and a *pendejo* of
    > the first water. When he was fragged by his fellow stormtrooper
    > thugs, he just got what each and every single one of them deserve.
    >
    > What he was _not_ was courageous. Tillman and the other lowly goons
    > who work on behalf of the American aggressor regime to murder and
    > beleaguer the pitiful, poor, desperately outgunned, but fiercely
    > courageous partisans of an occupied land are not brave, but rather the
    > opposite. Like all bullies, they are essentially cowards.


    He died so you and other terrorist supporters could spout such vile bile (he
    was in Afghanistan, not Iraq, in case you forgot).

    My bet is you'd shit your pants if he stood in front of you and twitched an
    eye.

    You're disgusting.

    Bill "new low, even for you" S.
     
  19. On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:09:43 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
    >get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?
    >
    >I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
    >should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability. It
    >takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
    >your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared consensus
    >of what that means in the biking lexicon.


    I can't help but think maybe there's a linguistic angle here, that
    there's a shade of meaning for "courage" in French that might cover
    precisely what you're on about.

    Can any Francophones out there comment?

    -Luigi
     
  20. On 18 Jul 2004 22:55:32 -0700, [email protected] (Chalo) wrote:

    >[email protected] (GW2G) wrote:
    >
    >> Commentators often refer to athletes as "warriors". They are not. One
    >> lesson we learned from the death of Pat Tillman is what a true warrior
    >> is and who those people are who show true courage.

    >
    >Pat Tillman was a murderer, a blinkered toady, a sociopath, a moral
    >imbecile, a fiduciary fool, a juvenile delinquent, and a *pendejo* of
    >the first water.

    <snip remainder>

    I thought this level of invective went out at the end of the Great
    Proletarian Cultural Revolution.
     
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