Roundabout Woes

[kit]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:01:54 +0000, Caher wrote:

> I was already on the roundabout. He came from the south side I had
> already got on from the east. I was signalling to come off at the south.
> He wanted to get off at the west. I was travelling past the west on the
> way to the south. He argued that I should have made my way into the busy
> inside then try to get back out onto the outside to turn off.

It sounds a lot more productive than most such exchanges. On 8/10
roundabouts I would do as he suggested.

> This would be stupid.

I think the theory goes that drivers expect you to behave in a predictable
way (i.e. like them). If you cycle somewhere a car wouldn't drive, they
may fail to look and see you. If you behave in a way that they don't
expect, they will often fail to take this into account. Ergo it's
generally safer to take whichever line a car normally would, even if this
involves crossing a few extra lanes of traffic.

> It's far safer to stay on the outside all the way around signalling as
> I go rather than weaving in and out.

In general in the UK (if you are in the UK?) the highway code specifically
says that you may do this if you wish to. So the driver shouldn't have
taken you to task over it - even though his advice was not all bad (could
he have been a cyclist in disguise?).

I would not be as dogmatic as some of the other posters in saying that you
should never take the left-hand lane. Before now, I've ended up in the
inside lane of the roundabout with two lanes of 40mph traffic on my left.
But I would recommend being very vigilant and assertive: block the whole
lane, whichever one you choose.

Kit

 

[Steve Rumsby]

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:40c07c6f.0@entanet...
> davek wrote:
>
> > You were travelling round the roundabout in an anticlockwise direction?
> >
> > That's *definitely* wrong.
>
> Not here!
>
> http://home.san.rr.com/roundabout/rndabout.jpg
>
> I use it quite a lot. Pick an exit and pray.
>
Where *is* that? Just so I know to avoid it...

Steve.

 

[Vincent Wilcox]

Steve Rumsby wrote:

>
> Where *is* that? Just so I know to avoid it...
>
> Steve.
>
>

Looks like the magic roundabout in that charming town of Swindon, half
price drinks at Ritzys before 9. Although I believe there are others.

 

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:01:54 GMT someone who may be Caher
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>It’s far safer to stay on the outside all the way around
>signalling as I go rather than weaving in and out.

Really. I take it you have not read "Cyclecraft".


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Nick Kew]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Steve Rumsby" <[email protected]> writes:

>> http://home.san.rr.com/roundabout/rndabout.jpg
>>
>> I use it quite a lot. Pick an exit and pray.
>>
> Where *is* that? Just so I know to avoid it...

Two known examples are Swindon and Hemel Hempstead.

I've been round both on a bike, but not recently. When I worked
in Swindon, my commuting route didn't take me that way.

--
Nick Kew

 

[davek]

Zog The Undeniable:
> Not here!
>
> http://home.san.rr.com/roundabout/rndabout.jpg

Sure, that's mad, Ted!

d.

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Caher
('[email protected]') wrote:

> He argued that I should have made my way
> into the busy inside then try to get back out onto the outside to turn
> off.

He was right. Obnoxious, but right.

> This would be stupid. It’s far safer to stay on the outside all
> the way around signalling as I go rather than weaving in and out.

No, really it isn't. If you're on the outside, not moving at traffic
speed, you're asking for just the sort of incident you had (or worse).
If you're in the correct lane for where you're going, and holding your
lane position, no-one *can* swerve round you. If you're turning right,
get across into the right turning lane. Ride at whatever speed feels
comfortable, but hold your position in the middle of the lane you're in
until you reach the right place to leave it.

> If I
> was driving I do not try to overtake someone already on the
> roundabout.

No-one's suggesting you try to overtake, simply use the correct lane for
the exit you're planning to take.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 99% of browsers can't run ActiveX controls. Unfortunately
;; 99% of users are using the 1% of browsers that can...
[seen on /. 08:04:02]

 

[James Hodson]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:01:54 GMT, Caher
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I was already on the roundabout. He came from the south side I had
>already got on from the east. I was signalling to come off at the south.
>He wanted to get off at the west. I was travelling past the west on the
>way to the south. He argued that I should have made my way into the busy
>inside then try to get back out onto the outside to turn off. This would
>be stupid. It’s far safer to stay on the outside all the way around
>signalling as I go rather than weaving in and out. If I was driving I do
>not try to overtake someone already on the roundabout.

If I read this correctly neither of you should have met since both of
you were taking the first available exit.

James

 

[DavidR]

"Richard" <[email protected]> wrote in
> Richard wrote:
>
> > The laning is somewhat immaterial - you were in the correct lane to turn
> > right (unless there were bizarre local road markings stating otherwise).
>
> Clarification: I assumed that "outside" meant "right-hand" as applied to
> a two-lane road, but reading Mssr Martin's nigh-simultaneous reply, I
> realise it could also mean "left-hand" when applied to a roundabout.

On a dual carriageway where the main road goes right and other exits are
minor roads (even on a four arm RB) it is quite reasonable to use the left
hand lane.

Similarly, it can be acceptable to turn left from the right hand lane. These
are much less common though as white paint on the approach increasingly
rules it out. I know a couple in Basingstoke that still have it.

 

[Adrian Boliston]

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:40c07c6f.0@entanet...

> http://home.san.rr.com/roundabout/rndabout.jpg

Someone must have been having a laff when they designed this one!

 

[Jon Senior]

Adrian Boliston [email protected] opined the following...
> "Zog The Undeniable" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:40c07c6f.0@entanet...
>
> > http://home.san.rr.com/roundabout/rndabout.jpg
>
> Someone must have been having a laff when they designed this one!

Actually, this style of roundabout can be remarkably effective. A
similar design (The Magic Roundabout in Swindon) was demonstrated to
work, by parking a bus in the middle and blocking all entrances until a
substantial build-up of traffic had occurred. The traffic was then
released and traffic flow was observed from the bus. It was generally
considered a success.

Jon

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

Steve Rumsby wrote:

> Where *is* that? Just so I know to avoid it...

That particular one is The Magic Roundabout in Swindon, just outside
Swindon Town FC.

 

[Simon Proven]

"Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> As for honking and hooting, about all you can do is ignore it. Hoots
> might be somebody trying to be helpful - once, with me, it was a
> motorist trying to tell my that my briefcase was about to fall off my
> back rack. It's good to learn a bit of animal psychology, for
> example when to look at motorists, and when not to, but that's not
> among the basics that you have to learn immediately.

Generally the problem is that the honkers and shouters are
usually in the wrong, IME. I had one last night who called
me a "c**t" for approaching a mini roundabout in the rh
lane, when the LH lane was marked as left turn only. He
powered into the LH lane, went straight on at speed, and
stopped 50 yards down the road behind a car waiting at a
red light.

Earlier in the same journey I was going round a 4 lane
roundabout in the lane marked for my direction. A vehicle
came from behind. I was in lane 2 of 4. The correct lane
for their direction was either 3 or 4 of 4. They approached
from behind, then passed on my left, approximately half in
lane 1 and half in lane 2, then cut across lane 2 to move
into lane 3 which they then continued around the rest of the
roundabout in.

 

[Al C-F]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:01:54 GMT, Caher
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It’s far safer to stay on the outside all the way around
>signalling as I go rather than weaving in and out.

No. It isn't. Ride the way you would drive, then we'll all know what
to expect.

Try reading Cyclecraft, and ignoring all those bloody stupid cycle
lanes.

>If I was driving I do
>not try to overtake someone already on the roundabout.

Indeed, though overtaking on the right should not cause a problem.
--

Cheers,

Al

 

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:01:35 +0100 someone who may be "Jeremy Parker"
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>The roundabout rules for cyclists in the Highway Code are quite
>amusing really. [snip]
>
>Note that is does NOT say that you WILL be safer, and the previous
>rule has strongly implied that it is not a "correct procedure".

They are trying to cover themselves. The Highway Code is written by
motorists and IIRC several editions ago used to advise cyclists to
go round the outside of a roundabout. Not being able to admit they
were wrong they are changing it slowly in the hope nobody will
notice.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Caher]

Just for clarification. I entered the roundabout from the east. Th
driver entered from the NORTH. I was getting off at the North. He wa
exiting from to the west

It’s just indicative of the attitude in this country to Cyclists that
never noticed whist being an off-roader


-

 

[David Martin]

On 4/6/04 11:06 am, in article [email protected], "Colin
Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Outside is standard usage meaning the RH lane of a dual.
And the LH lane when there are two lanes going around a roundabout. Hence
the request for clarification.

...d

 

[Colin Blackburn]

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:17:00 +0100, David Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On 4/6/04 11:06 am, in article [email protected],
> "Colin
> Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Outside is standard usage meaning the RH lane of a dual.
> And the LH lane when there are two lanes going around a roundabout. Hence
> the request for clarification.

Yes, and the OP stated they stayed in the outside lane on their "approach"
to the roundabout. That seemed very clear to me, when I posted this last
Thursday, but subsequent posts suggest many other possibilities including
the direction of rotation.

Colin

 

[James Hodson]

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:15:51 GMT, Caher
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Just for clarification. I entered the roundabout from the east. The
>driver entered from the NORTH. I was getting off at the North. He was
>exiting from to the west.

Now it makes sense!

James

 

[David Martin]

On 8/6/04 12:25 pm, in article [email protected], "Colin
Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:17:00 +0100, David Martin
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 4/6/04 11:06 am, in article [email protected],
>> "Colin
>> Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Outside is standard usage meaning the RH lane of a dual.
>> And the LH lane when there are two lanes going around a roundabout. Hence
>> the request for clarification.
>
> Yes, and the OP stated they stayed in the outside lane on their "approach"
> to the roundabout. That seemed very clear to me, when I posted this last
> Thursday, but subsequent posts suggest many other possibilities including
> the direction of rotation.


Outside is not the term I would normally use. Offside and nearside would be
much clearer.

...d