Stage 16 2000: Armstrong 'bonks'.



whiteboytrash said:
Whilst some posters on this forum want stop buying LeMond bikes because they don't like his comments about Lance..... I prefer to do something positive and because of Agritubel success at this Tour I'm going to go out and buy 487 liters of pesticide.... :)


I thought they made andouillette.
 
sopas said:
How many times did Indurain bonk in his carreer?


What about Merchx?
Bonking or not Bonking, He won that tour de France.

'Nuff said.

Whether he bonked because he had no food or because he had no legs, it doesn't matter, he wasn't there for that stage win.
 
I would have thought that he could have gotten some food from some of his teammates, or maybe they were all left in the dust and couldn't give him any. This is how I remember it: Lance and Marco weren't the best of friends. Pantani got ****** off when it was brought to his attention that Armstrong "gifted" him the stage up Ventoux. Pantani was also ****** of at the way that Lance would Keep attacking after he rode everybody into the dirt. Both were progressively getting more and more mad at each other as the race went on. Pantani eventually realized that he had no chance for victory, so he went on a kamakaze attack on the mountain stage, knowing Lance would follow him because his ego was equally as huge as his own. Pantani never intended to finish the stage, he just wanted to put the hurt on Lance and maybe someone else (Ulrich) could beat him. I can't remember if Pantani even finished the stage, but he didn't finish the tour that year. Lance was mad, probably mostly because he fell for it. He let his ego ride his race for him instead of his brain, which is what he usually does.
 
Bikeridindude said:
I would have thought that he could have gotten some food from some of his teammates, or maybe they were all left in the dust and couldn't give him any. This is how I remember it: Lance and Marco weren't the best of friends. Pantani got ****** off when it was brought to his attention that Armstrong "gifted" him the stage up Ventoux. Pantani was also ****** of at the way that Lance would Keep attacking after he rode everybody into the dirt. Both were progressively getting more and more mad at each other as the race went on. Pantani eventually realized that he had no chance for victory, so he went on a kamakaze attack on the mountain stage, knowing Lance would follow him because his ego was equally as huge as his own. Pantani never intended to finish the stage, he just wanted to put the hurt on Lance and maybe someone else (Ulrich) could beat him. I can't remember if Pantani even finished the stage, but he didn't finish the tour that year. Lance was mad, probably mostly because he fell for it. He let his ego ride his race for him instead of his brain, which is what he usually does.
From watching the stage it seems like he was on his own, and his book (which I read for the first time two days ago, BTW) says he simply did not eat well that morning, and totally bonked and how it was his worst day on a bike.
 
bobke said:
ummm, I have the twelve hour version, I daw itm he missed his musette bag.

Same thing happened famously to Greg Lemond in the TdF on a mountain stage when Hinault took advantage of it...

he bonked. big whoopee.

Oh, lemme guess, his bonk in 2000 will feature in some trial in France in the year 2015 when they re-examine his urines???

Recall for us all please that all his and his teams urines in 2000 were retroactively tested in 2001 for doping by a French federal judiciary.
All clean all negative.
I haven't seen it, I just found him "forgetting" very unusual. Missing a musette bag.. okay, I can understand that... but that's not exactly forgetting.
 
Armstrong might have no tour wins at all if not for Pantani being destroyed by the masonic powers of his own country. Because in 1999, just prior to his Giro exclusion, Marco was lightyears ahead of his form in 1998 (when he won Giro and Tour). Pantani would miss the 1999 Tour de France which was won that year by Lance Armstrong. In 2000 Pantani was half the rider he was in 1998 from the legal and mediacal assault he had to indure for over a year, and still he managed to put Armstrong in difficulty on Mt. Ventoux where they both arrived together at the finish. After which Armstrong declared he had let him have the win. Quite an unsporting comment, even if it was true that Armstrong did not try a sprint for the finish. After which at Courcheval, Pantani left Armstrong in his wake by a minute and a half, winning in solitude. Armstrong could no longer say he let him win. And so tired was Armstrong that at Morzine I believe, he lost time to Ullrich his closest rival on the GC. At Morzine Pantani once again launched an attack, this time from very far away and in total solitude, which once again put Armstrong and his team under stress. The attack failed as we know, and Pantani was never seen again at the Tour. But Armstrong was of course most angry with Marco for upstaging him in the mountains and the damage to his overall lead that he payed in responding to those attacks.
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Irish Indurain said:
I was just watching some highlights of Stage 16 in the Tour de france in 2000 on youtube. Its only some brief clips of the final climb and then an interview with Armstrong afterwards.

In the climb he was dropped by Virenque and Ullrich but in the interview he had some choice words for Marco Pantani, labelling him a "sh*t stirrer". I missed the earlier part of the stage so I was hoping someone would be able to fill me in on what happened. Did Pantani go on some suicidal breakaway on the ascent or something? Or was it just armstrong being sour and looking for an excuse for a poor day in the mountains?

Sorry, Im just very curious about this one!
 
ilpirata said:
Armstrong might have no tour wins at all if not for Pantani being destroyed by the masonic powers of his own country. Because in 1999, just prior to his Giro exclusion, Marco was lightyears ahead of his form in 1998 (when he won Giro and Tour). Pantani would miss the 1999 Tour de France which was won that year by Lance Armstrong. In 2000 Pantani was half the rider he was in 1998 from the legal and mediacal assault he had to indure for over a year, and still he managed to put Armstrong in difficulty on Mt. Ventoux where they both arrived together at the finish. After which Armstrong declared he had let him have the win. Quite an unsporting comment, even if it was true that Armstrong did not try a sprint for the finish. After which at Courcheval, Pantani left Armstrong in his wake by a minute and a half, winning in solitude. Armstrong could no longer say he let him win. And so tired was Armstrong that at Morzine I believe, he lost time to Ullrich his closest rival on the GC. At Morzine Pantani once again launched an attack, this time from very far away and in total solitude, which once again put Armstrong and his team under stress. The attack failed as we know, and Pantani was never seen again at the Tour. But Armstrong was of course most angry with Marco for upstaging him in the mountains and the damage to his overall lead that he payed in responding to those attacks.
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Pantani would never had a TDF victory if the Festina scandal never happened. Pantani was a great climber and an exciting rider, but he was not a multiple TDF winner.
 
yours is speculation as admittedly is mine. That is when I say that Armstrong might not have any tdf. What concerns me is with all these doping scandals and business of medicines, and business of antidoping and business interest of sponsors and individuals, is there anything left of the beauty and essence of sport anymore? For me nobody replaces Pantani for sheer excitement and galantry. He always blew people away on climbs even in the youth divisions. So no one can say he was great because he doped. Now when I see big muscular guys climbing like eagles, I get suspicious. So anyway back to your point, I agree with you in that with advances in science, Pantani would be at a disadvantage, because he would always be a small man. So how many more might he have won? Certainly not four. He was reported to have confided to his manager, that if they would really be able to develop controls that detect the addition of hormones and the doping, he would be the first to gain advantage. So what are you saying about Festina scandal? That if the doped team and riders had not been detected, Pantani would surely have lost? Perhaps that is true. A little bit perverted logic I must say, as it in no way detracts from the worthyness of Pantani. Again this is speculation, for I can say maybe who was left in 98 was riding really clean to be on there best behavior. Maybe that was the cleanest tour of any tour since. Methods of juicing have only improved since then, as can be seen by the average speeds.



wolfix said:
Pantani would never had a TDF victory if the Festina scandal never happened. Pantani was a great climber and an exciting rider, but he was not a multiple TDF winner.
 
I want to make the point that Pantani was a great rider. And an exciting one. And I believe he could have won 7 straight Giro's. But I think he was not built to take multiple TDF's. What he gained in the mountains he would have lost in the flats. I believe the TDF climbs do suit a power climber. Pantini was pure goat, the steeper, the more he dominated.

I'm not sure if he doped or not. I am not sure about anyone. And it doesn't matter to me. He was exciting and he was outspoken and controversial. I admire a rider that speaks his mind.
 
Mansmind said:
As anal as Armstrong is about training, him "forgetting to eat" is rather hard to believe.
As hard to believe as the story of him forgetting to drink 8 litres of fluid before/during the Stage 12 ITT in 2003 where Ullrich beat him.
 
wolfix said:
I want to make the point that Pantani was a great rider. And an exciting one. And I believe he could have won 7 straight Giro's. But I think he was not built to take multiple TDF's. What he gained in the mountains he would have lost in the flats. I believe the TDF climbs do suit a power climber. Pantini was pure goat, the steeper, the more he dominated.

I'm not sure if he doped or not. I am not sure about anyone. And it doesn't matter to me. He was exciting and he was outspoken and controversial. I admire a rider that speaks his mind.
I agree with you on this. I think another factor is the TDF is a little reliant on a stronger team, and if I recall right, his team wasn't an exceptional team ( I Could be wrong, it has been 8 years).

The most admirable thing about Pantani to me was the fact that if he wasn't in 1st place, then his GC ranking was of no importance. He would liek to get on teh podium, but his main priority was to win as many of the mountain stages as possble, and to win the overall if the opportunity presents itself. The famous 98 attack from 40ish Kms out is a perfect example, since he knew his only chance to win the Tour was to attempt a kamikaze like attack and hope Ullirch completely blew up.
 
...guess what ? Today they ride over the Joux Plane which is the very place your man Lance bonked ! (do you know what that means in Australia ?)

Irish Indurain said:
I was just watching some highlights of Stage 16 in the Tour de france in 2000 on youtube. Its only some brief clips of the final climb and then an interview with Armstrong afterwards.

In the climb he was dropped by Virenque and Ullrich but in the interview he had some choice words for Marco Pantani, labelling him a "sh*t stirrer". I missed the earlier part of the stage so I was hoping someone would be able to fill me in on what happened. Did Pantani go on some suicidal breakaway on the ascent or something? Or was it just armstrong being sour and looking for an excuse for a poor day in the mountains?

Sorry, Im just very curious about this one!
 
whiteboytrash said:
...guess what ? Today they ride over the Joux Plane which is the very place your man Lance bonked ! (do you know what that means in Australia ?)
What does it mean, trash? Is it a synonym for "champion"?