Starting crit's

[Brendo]

I'm looking to start racing at the local club, but I am wondering
what would be a suitable base of km's a week? After looking at
the bike more than riding for the last 8 months (around 250km in
all) I have given the trainer a good workout for around 45km last
week, as well as about 30km on the road (although around 15 of
those were with my son, who's 6. They were 15km trundles really)

Obviously the more km's I do the better I will get (within
reason) but I'm looking to get around 90kms this week and up to
130-150 over the next month or so.

The C grade crits are for 30min + 1, so I figure at 30kmh they'll
cover 15km. Any recommendations regarding the best way to train
for them?

 

[Nick Payne]

C grade crit will average a lot closer to 40kph than 30kph.

Most clubs run crit skills sessions every so often. Try to get to one of
those.

"Brendo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm looking to start racing at the local club, but I am wondering what
> would be a suitable base of km's a week? After looking at the bike more
> than riding for the last 8 months (around 250km in all) I have given the
> trainer a good workout for around 45km last week, as well as about 30km on
> the road (although around 15 of those were with my son, who's 6. They were
> 15km trundles really)
>
> Obviously the more km's I do the better I will get (within reason) but I'm
> looking to get around 90kms this week and up to 130-150 over the next
> month or so.
>
> The C grade crits are for 30min + 1, so I figure at 30kmh they'll cover
> 15km. Any recommendations regarding the best way to train for them?

 

[ritcho]

I'm looking to start racing at the local club, but I am wondering
what would be a suitable base of km's a week? After looking at
the bike more than riding for the last 8 months (around 250km in
all) I have given the trainer a good workout for around 45km last
week, as well as about 30km on the road (although around 15 of
those were with my son, who's 6. They were 15km trundles really)

Obviously the more km's I do the better I will get (within
reason) but I'm looking to get around 90kms this week and up to
130-150 over the next month or so.

The C grade crits are for 30min + 1, so I figure at 30kmh they'll
cover 15km. Any recommendations regarding the best way to train
for them?

I reckon you should start in the lowest grade available, as soon as possible. The best way to find out how prepared you are is to have a go - it doesn't cost too much and there is no dishonour at being dropped (I speak from experience!)

Good luck

Ritch

 

[Brendo]

ritcho wrote:
> Brendo Wrote:
>
>>I'm looking to start racing at the local club, but I am wondering
>>what would be a suitable base of km's a week? After looking at
>>the bike more than riding for the last 8 months (around 250km in
>>all) I have given the trainer a good workout for around 45km last
>>week, as well as about 30km on the road (although around 15 of
>>those were with my son, who's 6. They were 15km trundles really)
>>
>>Obviously the more km's I do the better I will get (within
>>reason) but I'm looking to get around 90kms this week and up to
>>130-150 over the next month or so.
>>
>>The C grade crits are for 30min + 1, so I figure at 30kmh they'll
>>cover 15km. Any recommendations regarding the best way to train
>>for them?
>
>
> I reckon you should start in the lowest grade available, as soon as
> possible. The best way to find out how prepared you are is to have a go
> - it doesn't cost too much and there is no dishonour at being dropped (I
> speak from experience!)
>
> Good luck
>
> Ritch
>
>
The local club has around 30 riders, and C is the lowest. Last
week it was 5 older guys, around 60-65. They still look like they
ride a lot, and I still think it would be a struggle to keep up
for 30 minutes!!

 

[parawolf]

The local club has around 30 riders, and C is the lowest. Last
week it was 5 older guys, around 60-65. They still look like they
ride a lot, and I still think it would be a struggle to keep up
for 30 minutes!!

Crit's are not about average speed. They are about surges, corner speed, attacks, bridges of gaps and the final sprint.

Except at some of the lower grades when it is just round and round the course we go until the final sprint.

To put a little data around it, the average speed for the last D-Grade crit I did at St Kilda CC, the Average speed was 38km/h for 39 minutes.

Max speed was 47.1km/h (for me anyway) and the slowest corner speed was 32.9km/h. So you can see just there; that there is variation.

What I have not told you yet, is coming out of that slow corner, I had to get up to 41.3km/h inside of 15 seconds to stay with the leaders. So I took that corner poorly.

Fast leg speed is handy in crits (good cadence). Practice your intervals to combat the surges that happen. Also get some good endurance in. There is no point having the power training from intervals and sprints practice, but you are unable to surge or sprint after 40 minutes of going around.

Some crits have rises and falls in the course, so some strength (on the bike) training can be handy too. Basically you won't know how race fit you are until you actually start racing.

 

[cfsmtb]

Don't know where Brendo is posting from, but nearby to us the HCC Crits have commenced again for 2007. See below if you're interested.

****

Hawthorn Cycling Club - Summer Criterium Season 2006-2007
http://hawthorncycling.org/news/news.asp#290

Venue: Lower Loop of the Yarra Boulevard KEW. (Mel Ref: 44 G4)
Time: Registration from 5:30 PM. Racing from 6 PM.
Entry fee: $10

Starting at 6:00 pm every Wednesday
1st Nov 2006 – 21st March 2007
Licences are required (no licence, NO race)

 

[DaveB]

cfsmtb wrote:
> Don't know where Brendo is posting from, but nearby to us the HCC Crits
> have commenced again for 2007. See below if you're interested.
>
> ****
>
> Hawthorn Cycling Club - Summer Criterium Season 2006-2007
> http://hawthorncycling.org/news/news.asp#290
>
> Venue: Lower Loop of the Yarra Boulevard KEW. (Mel Ref: 44 G4)
> Time: Registration from 5:30 PM. Racing from 6 PM.
> Entry fee: $10
>
> Starting at 6:00 pm every Wednesday
> 1st Nov 2006 – 21st March 2007
> Licences are required (no licence, NO race)
>
>

Licenses are required? Is that right? FD/Lama/Jono/Carl?? Or can you
still race with HCC membership only?

DaveB

 

[Bleve]

Brendo wrote:
> I'm looking to start racing at the local club, but I am wondering
> what would be a suitable base of km's a week? After looking at
> the bike more than riding for the last 8 months (around 250km in
> all) I have given the trainer a good workout for around 45km last
> week, as well as about 30km on the road (although around 15 of
> those were with my son, who's 6. They were 15km trundles really)


Crits are quite intense, you'll want to do high intensity intervals,
and average speeds will be around 36-43km/h depending on the course and
the grade and quality of the grade. I suggest getting a good book, for
example Joe Friel's 'The cyclists training bible', and/or some
coaching. Ob disclamer, I work as a cycling coach, so that's my
conflict of interest. Often your club will have coaches who work with
club members for no charge.


>
> Obviously the more km's I do the better I will get (within
> reason) but I'm looking to get around 90kms this week and up to
> 130-150 over the next month or so.
>
> The C grade crits are for 30min + 1, so I figure at 30kmh they'll
> cover 15km. Any recommendations regarding the best way to train
> for them?

Have a read through this too :

http://www.aboc.com.au/tips-and-hints/your-first-crit/

 

[Bean Long]

parawolf wrote:
> Brendo Wrote:
>> The local club has around 30 riders, and C is the lowest. Last
>> week it was 5 older guys, around 60-65. They still look like they
>> ride a lot, and I still think it would be a struggle to keep up
>> for 30 minutes!!
>
> Crit's are not about average speed. They are about surges, corner
> speed, attacks, bridges of gaps and the final sprint.

I agree. You need something more like quality interval training rather
than k's under your belt per week. I do about 220 a week with a 35-40 k
intervals session once a week and I still struggle in D. Max speeds
sometimes in the mid 50's and averages between 35 and 40 depending on
the wind. They must have built the new track here in the windiest part
of Canberra! Due to daylight hour constraints (our crits are Wed.
nights) we only get 10-12 min +2 in D, so they are short and fast. My
suggestion is start in your lowest grade (if that's C then go for it).
If you get dropped then you get dropped. The main thing is to do your
best to stick with the bunch. If you lose them then getting back will
severely damage your chances of a win or even staying with them till the
end. Work on your sprinting and be aware of the need to often surge out
of corners and jump to catch attacks (depending on when they come and
from whom). Most clubs will have bunches that go out of a morning for
intervals or rides with occasional sprints etc.

--
Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

 

[byron27]

parawolf wrote:
> Brendo Wrote:
>> The local club has around 30 riders, and C is the lowest. Last
>> week it was 5 older guys, around 60-65. They still look like they
>> ride a lot, and I still think it would be a struggle to keep up
>> for 30 minutes!!
>
> Crit's are not about average speed. They are about surges, corner
> speed, attacks, bridges of gaps and the final sprint.

I agree. You need something more like quality interval training rather
than k's under your belt per week. I do about 220 a week with a 35-40 k
intervals session once a week and I still struggle in D. Max speeds
sometimes in the mid 50's and averages between 35 and 40 depending on
the wind. They must have built the new track here in the windiest part
of Canberra! Due to daylight hour constraints (our crits are Wed.
nights) we only get 10-12 min +2 in D, so they are short and fast. My
suggestion is start in your lowest grade (if that's C then go for it).
If you get dropped then you get dropped. The main thing is to do your
best to stick with the bunch. If you lose them then getting back will
severely damage your chances of a win or even staying with them till the
end. Work on your sprinting and be aware of the need to often surge out
of corners and jump to catch attacks (depending on when they come and
from whom). Most clubs will have bunches that go out of a morning for
intervals or rides with occasional sprints etc.

--
Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

15 minutes for a crit!!

that would be on from the get go...

 

[TimC]

On 2007-01-18, DaveB (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> cfsmtb wrote:
>> Starting at 6:00 pm every Wednesday
>> 1st Nov 2006 - 21st March 2007
>> Licences are required (no licence, NO race)
>
> Licenses are required? Is that right? FD/Lama/Jono/Carl?? Or can you
> still race with HCC membership only?

From all that I've read, yes licenses are required. It's not going to
be quite the same this year as previous years, I get the feeling.

--
TimC
Disclaimer: Due to feline interference, this post may contain typographical
errors.

 

[Bean Long]

byron27 wrote:

> 15 minutes for a crit!!
>
> that would be on from the get go...

Yeah... they're short by most standards. Surprisingly they don't
necessarily go as fast as I've heard reported for say a 45 min race but
there's always a lot of tactical stuff happening. The short time frame
is due to late arvo races with 8 grades to fit in by dusk.We have a
novice men's grade and a D-grade that race 15 seconds apart (D goes
first). Unfortunately, even with the short race time D catches novice
men with a few laps to go. We use the new purpose built track at Mt
Stromlo (http://www.stromloforestpark.com.au/). People are quite nice
and very rarely do we get break-aways while the guys at the back are
still clipping in!

--
Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

 

[Boostland]

"cfsmtb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Don't know where Brendo is posting from, but nearby to us the HCC Crits
> have commenced again for 2007. See below if you're interested.
>
> ****
>
> Hawthorn Cycling Club - Summer Criterium Season 2006-2007
> http://hawthorncycling.org/news/news.asp#290
>
> Venue: Lower Loop of the Yarra Boulevard KEW. (Mel Ref: 44 G4)
> Time: Registration from 5:30 PM. Racing from 6 PM.
> Entry fee: $10
>
> Starting at 6:00 pm every Wednesday
> 1st Nov 2006 – 21st March 2007
> Licences are required (no licence, NO race)
>
>
> --
> cfsmtb
>

His posting IP traces to Optus Vic

I am going to ride in a crit on Sunday as I have just been relegated back to
B grade from A for the Hunter District club as I have been struggling the
last few races with a hamstring injury, and I only got into A grade due to
my sprinting ability and not my endurance or break away skills ( which I do
not possess ) it is hard to sprint for the entire race ( and no I am not
a sit on the back and sprint at the end type, I do my fair share or more if
I contest the sprint )

When I was in A grade I did not want to race the crit as I don't have the
fitness as yet to be able to keep up with some of the riders we have here, I
was racing with the veterans club instead in their handicap race off
chopping block ( last group to start before scratch ).
I should be able to get a place or win in B grade or at least be a major
player, if I rode A grade I would have been in survival mode hanging at the
back for grim death until I get dropped.

I usually do 500 to 650 km a week on average including training and racing,
I try to race in every event locally I can, Friday afternoons, Saturday and
Sunday with the veterans club including the velodrome on Wednesday nights.

There is no training like racing if you want to improve, Just show up join
the club get a license and start racing in the lowest grade they will allow
you to start in, you will then get a idea of just how much you will need to
train by how you perform in the race and by talking to the other racers.
Ask them about group rides and see if you can find a group that trains in
the area your in and at the pace you want to be able to train at.

I go on a training ride that is harder than a lot of A grade races as we
have some riders in the group that are ranked A+ at state level and one
rider who placed 4th in the recent Cronulla crits.
The bunch ride starts off reasonably easy with a bit of pace up the first
hill then from Belmont to Swansea and back at speeds of 48 to 55 km, it is
hard swapping turns with those guys at that speed and we drop quite a few
riders off the group, they can turn early and pick us up on the way back.

I usually do around 100 km on the days I do that ride, and as I ride to the
races I get around 100 km on Friday and Saturday, on Sunday I do a few extra
km's after the race so I get around 130 km's in.

 

[DaveB]

TimC wrote:
>> Licenses are required? Is that right? FD/Lama/Jono/Carl?? Or can you
>> still race with HCC membership only?
>
> From all that I've read, yes licenses are required. It's not going to
> be quite the same this year as previous years, I get the feeling.
>

Oh bugger. That would be it for me then. I might have to look at some
time trials ( http://www.atta.asn.au/ ). Most of a crit is a time trial
for me anyway.

DaveB

 

[Bleve]

DaveB wrote:

> cfsmtb wrote:
> > Don't know where Brendo is posting from, but nearby to us the HCC Crits
> > have commenced again for 2007. See below if you're interested.
> >
> > ****
> >
> > Hawthorn Cycling Club - Summer Criterium Season 2006-2007
> > http://hawthorncycling.org/news/news.asp#290
> >
> > Venue: Lower Loop of the Yarra Boulevard KEW. (Mel Ref: 44 G4)
> > Time: Registration from 5:30 PM. Racing from 6 PM.
> > Entry fee: $10
> >
> > Starting at 6:00 pm every Wednesday
> > 1st Nov 2006 - 21st March 2007
> > Licences are required (no licence, NO race)
> >
> >
>
> Licenses are required? Is that right? FD/Lama/Jono/Carl?? Or can you
> still race with HCC membership only?

Technically, you always had to have a licence (full CA) to ride them,
as they weren't club-only races. HCC were taking quite a risk, if
something had gone wrong and someone got badly hurt, they'd have been
in a lot of bother insurance-wise.

You HCC members who were always touting the $25 to race thing .. you
get 20 minutes in the naughty corner

Really though, even a full elite licence is only around $215, which is
dirt cheap compared to most other organised sports. You get access to
DISC, track, road racing, crits ... all for how much? We used to have
to pay around $500 a season (4 months) to play ice hockey and that
didn't include much. Given that with a CA licence you can race
pretty-much anywhere in the world, and certainly almost everywhere in
Australia and un zud, it's worth having.

 

[Boostland]

"Bean Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> byron27 wrote:
>
>> 15 minutes for a crit!!
>>
>> that would be on from the get go...
>
> Yeah... they're short by most standards. Surprisingly they don't
> necessarily go as fast as I've heard reported for say a 45 min race but
> there's always a lot of tactical stuff happening. The short time frame is
> due to late arvo races with 8 grades to fit in by dusk.We have a novice
> men's grade and a D-grade that race 15 seconds apart (D goes first).
> Unfortunately, even with the short race time D catches novice men with a
> few laps to go. We use the new purpose built track at Mt Stromlo
> (http://www.stromloforestpark.com.au/). People are quite nice and very
> rarely do we get break-aways while the guys at the back are still clipping
> in!
>
> --
> Bean
>
> Remove "yourfinger" before replying

Wow looks like a nice track.

I might have to go for a ride there when the next Canberra two day tour is
held.

 

[Boostland]

"Bleve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> DaveB wrote:
>
>> cfsmtb wrote:
>> > Don't know where Brendo is posting from, but nearby to us the HCC Crits
>> > have commenced again for 2007. See below if you're interested.
>> >
>> > ****
>> >
>> > Hawthorn Cycling Club - Summer Criterium Season 2006-2007
>> > http://hawthorncycling.org/news/news.asp#290
>> >
>> > Venue: Lower Loop of the Yarra Boulevard KEW. (Mel Ref: 44 G4)
>> > Time: Registration from 5:30 PM. Racing from 6 PM.
>> > Entry fee: $10
>> >
>> > Starting at 6:00 pm every Wednesday
>> > 1st Nov 2006 - 21st March 2007
>> > Licences are required (no licence, NO race)
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Licenses are required? Is that right? FD/Lama/Jono/Carl?? Or can you
>> still race with HCC membership only?
>
> Technically, you always had to have a licence (full CA) to ride them,
> as they weren't club-only races. HCC were taking quite a risk, if
> something had gone wrong and someone got badly hurt, they'd have been
> in a lot of bother insurance-wise.
>
> You HCC members who were always touting the $25 to race thing .. you
> get 20 minutes in the naughty corner
>
> Really though, even a full elite licence is only around $215, which is
> dirt cheap compared to most other organised sports. You get access to
> DISC, track, road racing, crits ... all for how much? We used to have
> to pay around $500 a season (4 months) to play ice hockey and that
> didn't include much. Given that with a CA licence you can race
> pretty-much anywhere in the world, and certainly almost everywhere in
> Australia and un zud, it's worth having.
>

I was under the impression you needed a international license for UCI
events.

"International Licence

The UCI requires cyclists to have an international licence to compete
overseas. This section provides information on application and insurance
requirements and the downloadable application form."

<
http://www.cycling.org.au/Content/N...ternational_Licence/International_Licence.htm >

 

[Bleve]

Boostland wrote:

> "Bleve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > DaveB wrote:
> >
> >> cfsmtb wrote:
> >> > Don't know where Brendo is posting from, but nearby to us the HCC Crits
> >> > have commenced again for 2007. See below if you're interested.
> >> >
> >> > ****
> >> >
> >> > Hawthorn Cycling Club - Summer Criterium Season 2006-2007
> >> > http://hawthorncycling.org/news/news.asp#290
> >> >
> >> > Venue: Lower Loop of the Yarra Boulevard KEW. (Mel Ref: 44 G4)
> >> > Time: Registration from 5:30 PM. Racing from 6 PM.
> >> > Entry fee: $10
> >> >
> >> > Starting at 6:00 pm every Wednesday
> >> > 1st Nov 2006 - 21st March 2007
> >> > Licences are required (no licence, NO race)
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Licenses are required? Is that right? FD/Lama/Jono/Carl?? Or can you
> >> still race with HCC membership only?
> >
> > Technically, you always had to have a licence (full CA) to ride them,
> > as they weren't club-only races. HCC were taking quite a risk, if
> > something had gone wrong and someone got badly hurt, they'd have been
> > in a lot of bother insurance-wise.
> >
> > You HCC members who were always touting the $25 to race thing .. you
> > get 20 minutes in the naughty corner
> >
> > Really though, even a full elite licence is only around $215, which is
> > dirt cheap compared to most other organised sports. You get access to
> > DISC, track, road racing, crits ... all for how much? We used to have
> > to pay around $500 a season (4 months) to play ice hockey and that
> > didn't include much. Given that with a CA licence you can race
> > pretty-much anywhere in the world, and certainly almost everywhere in
> > Australia and un zud, it's worth having.
> >
>
> I was under the impression you needed a international license for UCI
> events.
>
> "International Licence
>
> The UCI requires cyclists to have an international licence to compete
> overseas. This section provides information on application and insurance
> requirements and the downloadable application form."

That's still a CA licence (or, technically, a CA licence is a UCI
licence)

 

[DaveB]

Bleve wrote:
> Really though, even a full elite licence is only around $215, which is
> dirt cheap compared to most other organised sports. You get access to
> DISC, track, road racing, crits ... all for how much? We used to have
> to pay around $500 a season (4 months) to play ice hockey and that
> didn't include much. Given that with a CA licence you can race
> pretty-much anywhere in the world, and certainly almost everywhere in
> Australia and un zud, it's worth having.
>

If all I did was cycle then I might invest in the CA license. But crits
are something I fit in around triathlons, duathlons, and running races.
I aim for a race of some kind each month (or slightly more). With that
in mind I might do 3 crits in a good year. Excluding the HCC cheap
membership, I could get the day license for $20 (ok that was 3 years ago
so it might have gone up) and could do 9 crits in a year and still be in
front. It's the same reason I don't get a TA license for tris/du's, I
would have to be only doing them to do enough events to justify it.

I reckon we need a multisport license (dream on).

You say technically you always needed a CA license for HCC Crits, but if
it's true, obviously that has never been enforced. Is there any change
this year?

DaveB

 

[Boostland]

"Bleve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Boostland wrote:
>
>> "Bleve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > DaveB wrote:
>> >
>> >> cfsmtb wrote:
>> >> > Don't know where Brendo is posting from, but nearby to us the HCC
>> >> > Crits
>> >> > have commenced again for 2007. See below if you're interested.
>> >> >
>> >> > ****
>> >> >
>> >> > Hawthorn Cycling Club - Summer Criterium Season 2006-2007
>> >> > http://hawthorncycling.org/news/news.asp#290
>> >> >
>> >> > Venue: Lower Loop of the Yarra Boulevard KEW. (Mel Ref: 44 G4)
>> >> > Time: Registration from 5:30 PM. Racing from 6 PM.
>> >> > Entry fee: $10
>> >> >
>> >> > Starting at 6:00 pm every Wednesday
>> >> > 1st Nov 2006 - 21st March 2007
>> >> > Licences are required (no licence, NO race)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Licenses are required? Is that right? FD/Lama/Jono/Carl?? Or can you
>> >> still race with HCC membership only?
>> >
>> > Technically, you always had to have a licence (full CA) to ride them,
>> > as they weren't club-only races. HCC were taking quite a risk, if
>> > something had gone wrong and someone got badly hurt, they'd have been
>> > in a lot of bother insurance-wise.
>> >
>> > You HCC members who were always touting the $25 to race thing .. you
>> > get 20 minutes in the naughty corner
>> >
>> > Really though, even a full elite licence is only around $215, which is
>> > dirt cheap compared to most other organised sports. You get access to
>> > DISC, track, road racing, crits ... all for how much? We used to have
>> > to pay around $500 a season (4 months) to play ice hockey and that
>> > didn't include much. Given that with a CA licence you can race
>> > pretty-much anywhere in the world, and certainly almost everywhere in
>> > Australia and un zud, it's worth having.
>> >
>>
>> I was under the impression you needed a international license for UCI
>> events.
>>
>> "International Licence
>>
>> The UCI requires cyclists to have an international licence to compete
>> overseas. This section provides information on application and insurance
>> requirements and the downloadable application form."
>
> That's still a CA licence (or, technically, a CA licence is a UCI
> licence)
>

My CA licence has printed on the bottom right corner "Australian Domestic
Racing Licence"

And under UCI Code "Domestic"

According to that page I linked to you need both the domestic and the
international licence in order to compete in international events.

I will ask my friend for confirmation, who competed for around 15 years
internationally including world championships ( only recently retiring )
what he had to possess in order to race.