That's torn it! -- Torn lettuce?



Just to add my $0.02 on this, I have also HEARD (read, "don't
yell at ME if you don't agree with this; I just report the stuff, I
don't make it up...) that in addition to the "browning" notion,
lettuce is for some reason particularly good at picking up a
"metallic" taste from knives. (In fact, I distinctly recall seeing this
listed as an advantage of the Kyocera ceramic knives in some of
their promotional material.) I've never really tested it, formally,
but I do have the notion that I can detect such a taste in cut
lettuce and not in torn. I tear. If you wanna chop/slice/cut/
mandoline/whatever, knock yerself out - won't hurt my feelings
one little bit.

Bob M.
 
One time on Usenet, "Seamus" <[email protected]> said:
> Default User wrote:
> > Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> > > Supposedly, tearing lettuce reduces oxidation of the edges and
> > > retards wilting.

> > That's more or less what Alton Brown said. Tearing causes the pieces to
> > separate between cells, cutting shears through cells -- leading to more
> > leakage.

> > For the most part, what I do depends on the texture I want for the
> > final result, cut for shreds torn for larger pieces.

> Specifically the oxidation of phenols. Same stuff that makes an apple
> turn brown.

I wish I could get Miguel (DH) to realize this, but he thinks it's an
urban legend...


--
Jani in WA (S'mee)
~ mom, VidGamer, novice cook ~
 
S'mee in WA wrote:
> One time on Usenet, "Seamus" <[email protected]> said:
> > Default User wrote:
> > > Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> > > > Supposedly, tearing lettuce reduces oxidation of the edges and
> > > > retards wilting.
>
> > > That's more or less what Alton Brown said. Tearing causes the pieces to
> > > separate between cells, cutting shears through cells -- leading to more
> > > leakage.
>
> > > For the most part, what I do depends on the texture I want for the
> > > final result, cut for shreds torn for larger pieces.
>
> > Specifically the oxidation of phenols. Same stuff that makes an apple
> > turn brown.
>
> I wish I could get Miguel (DH) to realize this, but he thinks it's an
> urban legend...
>

Google phenol food brown and rub DH's nose in it :).
>
> --
> Jani in WA (S'mee)
> ~ mom, VidGamer, novice cook ~
 
sf wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:44:26 GMT, Phred wrote:
>
> > G'day mates,
> >
> > My "traditional" salad (i.e. the only one I ever make for myself)
> > consists of chopped lettuce (strips about... lemme see, better
> > translate... 3/8" to 1/2" wide by 1/2" to 1" long, cut with a knife)
> > and the other usual ingredients for a tossed salad (chopped tomato and
> > onion, grated carrot, diced spuds, sometimes chopped hard boiled eggs,
> > and so on). So when someone says to use "torn lettuce" I'm left
> > wondering how much it should be torn.
>
> I tear Bibb/Butter lettuce, but I chop Romaine.

With an oriental dressing I like romaine finely shredded, for a
sieze-her I use the smaller inner leaves whole, for tossed with a
creamy dressing I tear the green off the ribs, the ribs make a nice
cooks treat with whatever dip is going, clam is my fav. I grow my own
romaine... yoose would be amazed at how huge they grow... 18" wide and
3' tall is normal, I kid you not. Romain is one of the easiest
lettuces to grow... the trick is to start teh plants early in a cold
frame and put them in teh ground as soon as therre's no chance of a
hard frost... lettuce does not like hot weather, two days over 80ºF it
starts to bolt.

Sheldon
 
"Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> (Phred) wrote:
> (snip)
>>
>> I realise it probably doesn't matter a tinker's damn how much it's
>> torn within wide limits; but, just in case there *is* something of an
>> expectation among diners of a "torn lettuce" standard, I thought I'd
>> better ask here. (And I checked the FAQ, Vic, but it has neither
>> "torn" nor "lettuce" on the page. ;-)
>>
>> Cheers, Phred.
>
> The theory about tearing vs cutting is that a metal knife will cause the
> sliced edges to brown, whereas tearing it will not cause browning. FWIW.
> --
> -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 9-19-05

Right as usual, Barb, at least IMHO. I use a plastic knife for cutting
lettuce. It's a stupid tool but I believe in it.

Felice
 
On 21 Sep 2005 01:02:02 -0500, Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> It's also got a
> pleasant texture and a delicate sweetness and fragrance which are often
> overlooked by LETTUCE SNOBS LIKE YOU! :)


LOL! I can live with that. I really do hate head lettuce and love
"anything" else ("Spring Blend" is one of my favorites). Of course,
I'm old enough to remember when something other than head lettuce
wasn't a choice for most people, if they didn't have a home garden.
My family ate "butter" lettuce ONLY because a farm that sold it to
high priced Chicago restaurants was in our area. My family was
friends with that family and I remember going to their farm to
purchase lettuce on a weekly basis - during the growing season.

My mother's father lived across the state and gardened every summer.
He raised several kinds of lettuce every summer and none of them was
head lettuce.
 
On 20 Sep 2005 23:22:33 -0700, -L. wrote:

>
> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> > Most replies have ignored what I thought was the point of Phred's post: If
> > you tear the lettuce, how large are the torn pieces? My answer is that I
> > tear the lettuce into pieces which I think can be easily eaten with a salad
> > fork. That works out to no dimension being larger than about two-and-a-half
> > inches or smaller than one inch. But that's just me.
> >
> > Bob
>
> I'm with ya on the no smaller than 1 inch size. I HATE it when people
> chop their food into miniscule pieces. My MIL does this with
> everything, my sister and nieceas do it with fruit salad and potato
> salad. Ick! Give me big pieces! If I want them smaller, I will cut
> them myself!
>
LOL! My bad experiences are with pieces that require a knife to
conform them into something you can eat... either that or you get
dressing all over your face when you try to jam it in.
 
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:39:16 -0400, Nancy Young wrote:

> It also looks a hell of a lot better, in my opinion.

It's HEAD lettuce. Bah! Cut it already, don't try to be upscale,
becaue it's HEAD lettuce.
 
On 21 Sep 2005 17:09:46 +0200, Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> One of my favorite simple salads is a wedge or thick cross section of
> iceberg lettuce with a good chunky blue cheese or homemade 1000 island
> dressing on it.


Good God, Wayne. Do you eat this in your "vintage" kitchen? My
kitchen is OLD, but I'm not trying to pretend it isn't.
 
On 21 Sep 2005 14:31:40 -0700, Sheldon wrote:

>
> sf wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:44:26 GMT, Phred wrote:
> >
> > > G'day mates,
> > >
> > > My "traditional" salad (i.e. the only one I ever make for myself)
> > > consists of chopped lettuce (strips about... lemme see, better
> > > translate... 3/8" to 1/2" wide by 1/2" to 1" long, cut with a knife)
> > > and the other usual ingredients for a tossed salad (chopped tomato and
> > > onion, grated carrot, diced spuds, sometimes chopped hard boiled eggs,
> > > and so on). So when someone says to use "torn lettuce" I'm left
> > > wondering how much it should be torn.
> >
> > I tear Bibb/Butter lettuce, but I chop Romaine.
>
> With an oriental dressing I like romaine finely shredded, for a
> sieze-her I use the smaller inner leaves whole, for tossed with a
> creamy dressing I tear the green off the ribs, the ribs make a nice
> cooks treat with whatever dip is going, clam is my fav. I grow my own
> romaine... yoose would be amazed at how huge they grow... 18" wide and
> 3' tall is normal, I kid you not. Romain is one of the easiest
> lettuces to grow... the trick is to start teh plants early in a cold
> frame and put them in teh ground as soon as therre's no chance of a
> hard frost... lettuce does not like hot weather, two days over 80ºF it
> starts to bolt.
>
You sound like a real gardener. My grandfather did that sort of thing
and my brother does it now.

<sniffle>
sf
feeling nostalgic
 
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:23:44 -0500, notbob wrote:

> On 2005-09-21, Wayne Boatwright <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Supposedly, tearing lettuce reduces oxidation of the edges and retards
> > wilting.
>
> Horse pucky! While "tearing" gives illusion the salad is the latest
> trendy organic/free range/whatever greens, the fact is most salads are
> crisped in ice water and dried just prior to serving. Any salad green
> can be cut, shot, or mandolined and preserved for 2-3 days in ice
> water with little or no degradation and most wouldn't have a clue.
> This is common practice.
>
Bob, there is some validity to cut edges browning... but I don't keep
"cut" (or torn) lettuce for days, so it doesn't apply to me.
 
On 20 Sep 2005 22:36:24 -0700, aem wrote:

>
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >
> > Supposedly, tearing lettuce reduces oxidation of the edges and retards
> > wilting.
>
> More than 'supposedly' and easily shown by experimentation. Take two
> pieces of lettuce, cut one in half, tear the other in half. Put them
> down on your cutting board and go away. Come back in half an hour and
> look closely at the edges of each piece. The torn edges will be less
> wilted and less discolored than the cut edges.
>
> Whether the difference matters is up to you.
>
> > [snip] Many people find torn lettuce more esthetically pleasing.
>
> I do, but again, it's a personal thing. -aem

Tear not cut? LOL! Oh, my god... you're an iceberg lettuce snob!
 
On 21 Sep 2005 18:05:33 +0200, Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Tue 20 Sep 2005 11:42:30p, cathyxyz wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> to go for "bite-sized". I am sure that really helped :)
>
> I agree with "bite-sized".
>
> >
> > Like your new sig, Wayne, BTW. heh heh
> >
>
> Thanks, Cathy

WAIT.... did you recently steal it from someone? I've seen it a lot
in the past couple of years - not sure if it was you or not.
 
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:36:32 -0500, Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> The theory about tearing vs cutting is that a metal knife will cause the
> sliced edges to brown, whereas tearing it will not cause browning. FWIW.
> --
> -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 9-19-05


Blah! How long do you have to keep that lettuce before it browns?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Wayne Boatwright <[email protected]> wrote:


> One of my favorite simple salads is a wedge or thick cross section of
> iceberg lettuce with a good chunky blue cheese or homemade 1000 island
> dressing on it.


About once a year I do the following:

hard boil an egg or two and chop, but not too fine
finely chop a couple of tablespoons of onion
add a few heaping tablespoons of Best Foods mayo
add about a third as much catsup

mix well and let sit for an hour or so

serve over big wedges of iceberg lettuce, and eat with knife and fork


I think it's about time for this again!
 
Dan wrote:

> About once a year I do the following:
>
> hard boil an egg or two and chop, but not too fine
> finely chop a couple of tablespoons of onion
> add a few heaping tablespoons of Best Foods mayo
> add about a third as much catsup
>
> mix well and let sit for an hour or so
>
> serve over big wedges of iceberg lettuce, and eat with knife and fork

I make an old-fashioned steak dinner about once a year. The salad I have
with it consists of wedges of iceberg lettuce, hard-boiled egg wedges,
halved grape tomatoes, avocado chunks, and one of these two dressings:

Thousand Island Dressing (adapted from Wayne's recipe, amounts are
approximate)

1 cup mayonnaise
1 tablespoon apple cider vinegar
3 tablespoons chili sauce
2 teaspoons lemon juice -- grate some of the zest into it, too
1/2 teaspoon dry mustard powder
1 teaspoon sugar
2 finely chopped green onions, both green and white parts
1 finely minced stalk celery
1 tablespoon sweet relish, or finely chopped sweet pickle
1 tablespoon finely chopped stuffed green olives
1/4 cup finely chopped parsley
2 dashes Worcestershire sauce
4 dashes Tabasco sauce
Salt and freshly ground pepper to taste

Whisk all ingredients together in a small bowl and refrigerate at least
2 hours before serving. (The resting time is important for the mustard to
mellow.)


Basic French Dressing (from _Judy Zeidler's International Deli Cookbook_)

3/4 cup safflower oil
1/3 cup white vinegar or lemon juice
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
2 teaspoons Dijon mustard
2 teaspoons sugar
1/2 teaspoon paprika
1/2 teaspoon dried basil, crumbled
1/2 teaspoon dried tarragon, crumbled
2 cloves garlic, minced

In a 1-pint jar, combine all ingredients. Cover tightly and shake well.
This will keep up to 1 week in the refrigerator. Makes about a cup.


Bob
 
Phred wrote:

<snip>

> I realise it probably doesn't matter a tinker's damn how much it's
> torn within wide limits; but, just in case there *is* something of an
> expectation among diners of a "torn lettuce" standard, I thought I'd
> better ask here. (And I checked the FAQ, Vic, but it has neither
> "torn" nor "lettuce" on the page. ;-)

mainly aesthetics.
Brusing and blah blah - if you're not in hospitality, I doubt you would be
preparing that far in advance ... and personally, I go with whatever looks
better for what i'm serving, on the day. If anyone complains ... thump
them ;)


--
aus.food passes 79:6 !
 
Phred wrote:
>
> Onya, Bob! I should have thought more about it myself -- clearly an
> American recipe would call for pieces small enough to eat with a fork
> without the aid of a knife, so that would set an upper limit. Around
> here, Iceberg is the only type commonly available, so I'm afraid I'll
> have to give the more exclusive salad clubs a miss. ;-)

Where do you live, Phred ?
Nothing wrong with iceberg, it's a very adaptable lettuce. I like it's
'icy' crunch ;)

I tend to use it, and rocket, mainly, depending on recipe, and will only buy
cos if making a proper ceasar.
Baby spinach too, I guess .. hmm... now I think about it ... I love butter
lettuce - but getting the dirt out - ugh !
Lamb's tongue is nice too ... i'm an omnivore, can you tell ? ;)


--
aus.food passes 79:6 !
 
Nancy wrote:

> At home I have the habit of eating my salad with my fingers so it's not
> that big a deal. Yes, another guilty secret.

Apropos of that, did you know that the original Cesar salad was meant to be
eaten with your fingers? The salad wasn't tossed; the dressing was poured on
whole romaine leaves. The diners were supposed to pick up the whole leaf and
eat it.

Bob
 
"Bob Terwilliger" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Nancy wrote:
>
>> At home I have the habit of eating my salad with my fingers so it's not
>> that big a deal. Yes, another guilty secret.
>
> Apropos of that, did you know that the original Cesar salad was meant to
> be
> eaten with your fingers? The salad wasn't tossed; the dressing was poured
> on
> whole romaine leaves. The diners were supposed to pick up the whole leaf
> and
> eat it.

Isn't that funny! No, I did not know that. Sounds pretty good to me,
now that you mention it.

nancy
 
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