The agony of decision...

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Dave Stallard, Sep 24, 2003.

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  1. I'm looking to buy a high-end road bike for long day rides. What used to be called "sport touring",
    I believe. I want it to be sporty, but comfortable enough so that it doesn't beat me up. Price
    (almost) no object.

    So far, I've test ridden

    Seven Axiom Seven Odonata Serotta Legend Ti Serotta Legend Ti ST (with carbon seat stays) DeRosa Neo
    Primato Fondriest Status some beat me/whip me carbon bike from Time

    I'm riding a Trek 1220 now. I don't like aluminium except when I'm climbing a hill and appreciate
    the lightness; I much prefer the ride of steel. I was thinking I would just go with Ti, but having
    ridden the DeRosa, I'm not so sure. It's amazing how light high-end steel frames are nowadays.

    The Axiom I really liked. The Odonata I expected to like even more, but I think the results were
    biased by the test bike being too long for me (56 cm, whereas I'm 5'10").

    I really like the plushness yet zing of the Serotta Legend ST, but $3,500 for frame and fork -
    sheesh. Plus, I wonder if that zing might get to me after while. The regular Legend was too harsh.
    The Fondriest was a nice bike (another steel one), but perhaps too much of a racer.

    What the hell should I get? Does anybody own any of these and/or have suggestions?

    Dave
     
    Tags:


  2. Dave: If you're into steel, you might also see if you can run down one of the new LeMond Zurichs.
    853 Reynolds "spine" (headtube, downtube, chainstays) with carbon across the top. Had the chance to
    ride one in WI at a demo, and really didn't want to like it, but found myself thinking "This bike
    has a great ride!" My preference, as anybody who reads these newsgroups knows, remains full
    carbon-fiber; you'd have a tough time dragging my 5900 away from me while I'm alive. To me, it rides
    like the most unbelievably-light steel frame available, but still doesn't sound nearly the same (and
    acoustics, I believe, are the biggest contributor to what people think they "feel" from one frame
    material to the other).

    In the end, the right bike is the one you'll ride more, and if one of the bikes you chose has
    something about it that excites you most, that's probably the best way to go. Even if it's
    cosmetics. This assumes, of course, that all can be made to fit comfortably.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "Dave Stallard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm looking to buy a high-end road bike for long day rides. What used to be called "sport
    > touring", I believe. I want it to be sporty, but comfortable enough so that it doesn't beat me up.
    > Price (almost) no object.
    >
    > So far, I've test ridden
    >
    > Seven Axiom Seven Odonata Serotta Legend Ti Serotta Legend Ti ST (with carbon seat stays) DeRosa
    > Neo Primato Fondriest Status some beat me/whip me carbon bike from Time
    >
    > I'm riding a Trek 1220 now. I don't like aluminium except when I'm climbing a hill and appreciate
    > the lightness; I much prefer the ride of steel. I was thinking I would just go with Ti, but having
    > ridden the DeRosa, I'm not so sure. It's amazing how light high-end steel frames are nowadays.
    >
    > The Axiom I really liked. The Odonata I expected to like even more, but I think the results were
    > biased by the test bike being too long for me (56 cm, whereas I'm 5'10").
    >
    > I really like the plushness yet zing of the Serotta Legend ST, but $3,500 for frame and fork -
    > sheesh. Plus, I wonder if that zing might get to me after while. The regular Legend was too harsh.
    > The Fondriest was a nice bike (another steel one), but perhaps too much of a racer.
    >
    > What the hell should I get? Does anybody own any of these and/or have suggestions?
    >
    > Dave
     
  3. Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >
    > Dave: If you're into steel, you might also see if you can run down one of the new LeMond Zurichs.
    > 853 Reynolds "spine" (headtube, downtube, chainstays) with carbon across the top. Had the chance
    > to ride one in WI at a demo, and really didn't want to like it, but found myself thinking "This
    > bike has a great ride!" My preference, as anybody who reads these newsgroups knows, remains full
    > carbon-fiber; you'd have a tough time dragging my 5900 away from me while I'm alive. To me, it
    > rides like the most unbelievably-light steel frame available, but still doesn't sound nearly the
    > same (and acoustics, I believe, are the biggest contributor to what people think they "feel" from
    > one frame material to the other).

    Mike,

    Carbon on the top tube only? That's strange. Most of the carbon/metal bikes I've seen have been
    either carbon everywhere, with metal at the junctions (like Serotta Ottrot, Lemond Tete de
    Course, Merlin Cielo) or carbon on the seat stays only.

    I should try the 5900. It's certainly a popular bike nowadays. I haven't ridden any carbon yet
    except the Time, which I didn't like. I should try Calfee. I'm kind of targeted to custom sizing,
    esp. if I'm going to be spending > 3K.

    So many good bikes, so little storage space. Anybody see the article on Robin Williams' stable of
    bikes? I don't envy him his money so much as I envy him his *garage space*.

    Dave
     
  4. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:59:31 GMT, <[email protected]>, Dave Stallard <[email protected]>
    wrote, in part:

    >I'm looking to buy a high-end road bike for long day rides. What used to be called "sport touring",
    >I believe. I want it to be sporty, but comfortable enough so that it doesn't beat me up. Price
    >(almost) no object.
    >
    >So far, I've test ridden
    >
    >Seven Axiom Seven Odonata Serotta Legend Ti Serotta Legend Ti ST (with carbon seat stays) DeRosa
    >Neo Primato Fondriest Status some beat me/whip me carbon bike from Time
    >
    >I'm riding a Trek 1220 now.:
    \snip
    >What the hell should I get? Does anybody own any of these and/or have suggestions?

    Forget it. You're looking at cookie-cutter bikes. Go custom.

    Find a frame-builder you can talk to and start talking. Get exactly what you want. Buy artisan built
    bikes or they'll disappear.
    --
    zk
     
  5. Zoot Katz wrote:

    > Forget it. You're looking at cookie-cutter bikes. Go custom.
    >
    > Find a frame-builder you can talk to and start talking. Get exactly what you want. Buy artisan
    > built bikes or they'll disappear.

    Well, that's why I'm thinking of Seven. That's an artisan-built bike. Any more artisan and you're
    talking about Richard Sachs or somebody like that. And that would take a long time.

    Serotta is made-to-measure, whatever that means. And DeRosa does custom, but I'm told it's kind of a
    black hole going that route. Still, they make great bikes, no? A storied framemaker.

    But Seven is probably the best all-around custom maker from my standpoint, in terms of
    personalization and good turn-around time.

    Dave
     
  6. On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:59:31 +0000, Dave Stallard wrote:

    > I'm riding a Trek 1220 now. I don't like aluminium except when I'm climbing a hill and appreciate
    > the lightness; I much prefer the ride of steel. I was thinking I would just go with Ti, but having
    > ridden the DeRosa, I'm not so sure. It's amazing how light high-end steel frames are nowadays.

    You are beginning to see the truth, that frame material is not as important as it is made out to be.
    Great bikes can be made out of aluminum, or titanium, or carbon, or steel. Steel is probably the
    hardest to get light yet still be strong, but lots of builders have considerable experience, and
    good steel bikes are comparable with any other material. The same is true of any of these materials.

    Go with what you like. Yeah, maybe they sound different, and maybe that matters. In the price
    range you're considering, you can certainly get a great machine. My own preference would be to be
    a bit conservative, and I would never consider a $3500 frame --- I think you can get a fine bike
    for much less.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all _`\(,_ | mysteries, and all
    knowledge; and though I have all faith, so (_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not
    charity, I am nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]
     
  7. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

  8. Zoot Katz wrote:
    >
    > Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:22:56 GMT, <[email protected]>, Dave Stallard
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >But Seven is probably the best all-around custom maker from my standpoint, in terms of
    > >personalization and good turn-around time.
    > >
    > > Dave
    >
    > Yeah, whatever.
    >
    > You've talked to this guy yet? http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FBeauchemin/Marbikes.htm

    Looked at this initially, but I don't like the only shop near me that has them. I'm sure it's a
    great bike. Yes, I suppose I could contact them directly, but I'd be more comfortable working it
    through an LBS I'm comfortable with. Plus, 7 and Calfee are local to me.

    Dave
     
  9. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:33:29 GMT, <[email protected]>, Dave Stallard <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Plus, 7 and Calfee are local to me.

    There ya go.

    The Marinoni bikes are however an outstanding value. Less hype, more bike
    --
    zk
     
  10. Chris Neary

    Chris Neary Guest

    >Serotta is made-to-measure, whatever that means.

    When we bought my wife's Legend Ti, custom sizing was built into the price.

    She loves her 43cm machine, and I guarantee it looks like no other bike on the road.

    Chris Neary [email protected]

    "Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the
    elements I loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh
     
  11. Mark

    Mark Guest

    "Dave Stallard" wrote
    > Zoot Katz wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > Yeah, whatever.
    > >
    > > You've talked to this guy yet? http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FBeauchemin/Marbikes.htm
    >
    > Looked at this initially, but I don't like the only shop near me that has them. I'm sure it's a
    > great bike. Yes, I suppose I could contact them directly, but I'd be more comfortable working it
    > through an LBS I'm comfortable with. Plus, 7 and Calfee are local to me.
    >
    > Dave

    Like Zoot says, Marinonis are excellent bikes. I've bought 2 from the US rep (Glen DeRuchie) in
    Vermont one in 1988 and one in 2001, very happy both times.
    --
    mark
     
  12. Have you looked into Steelhead Bicycles?

    Your choice of frame materials built to your specifications, and custom made.

    Nice looking bikes.

    http://www.steelheadbicycles.com/

    Kerry
     
  13. Ru

    Ru Guest

    Independent Fabrication? http://64.227.152.248/frames2/

    Crown Jewel, Club Racer, Ti Crown Jewel may be what you want: all are or can be custom built

    "Dave Stallard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm looking to buy a high-end road bike for long day rides. What used to be called "sport
    > touring", I believe. I want it to be sporty, but comfortable enough so that it doesn't beat me up.
    > Price (almost) no object.
    >
    > So far, I've test ridden
    >
    > Seven Axiom Seven Odonata Serotta Legend Ti Serotta Legend Ti ST (with carbon seat stays) DeRosa
    > Neo Primato Fondriest Status some beat me/whip me carbon bike from Time
    >
    > I'm riding a Trek 1220 now. I don't like aluminium except when I'm climbing a hill and appreciate
    > the lightness; I much prefer the ride of steel. I was thinking I would just go with Ti, but having
    > ridden the DeRosa, I'm not so sure. It's amazing how light high-end steel frames are nowadays.
    >
    > The Axiom I really liked. The Odonata I expected to like even more, but I think the results were
    > biased by the test bike being too long for me (56 cm, whereas I'm 5'10").
    >
    > I really like the plushness yet zing of the Serotta Legend ST, but $3,500 for frame and fork -
    > sheesh. Plus, I wonder if that zing might get to me after while. The regular Legend was too harsh.
    > The Fondriest was a nice bike (another steel one), but perhaps too much of a racer.
    >
    > What the hell should I get? Does anybody own any of these and/or have suggestions?
    >
    > Dave
     
  14. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    Dave Stallard <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Plus, 7 and Calfee are local to me.

    Seven are in the Boston MA area and Calfee are in Santa Cruz, CA.

    Kinda makes me wonder what your definition of "local" is.

    Seven make nice fancy bikes, but they, like Waterford, are definitely of the "mass-produced custom"
    variety. They have their habits, tooling, and notions that will limit how "custom" your custom frame
    can be. That's fine if what you want is fundamentally similar to a production frame.

    I contacted both of these makers in the hunt for my own custom frame, and neither of them would make
    a frame whose lengths and tube diameters were in proportion to its height. Waterford were
    accomodating enough to refer me to a builder who could and would do this for me.

    I prefer to work with a builder whose attitude and philosophy are more along the lines of "whatever
    you want".

    Chalo Colina
     
  15. Chalo wrote:
    >
    > Dave Stallard <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Plus, 7 and Calfee are local to me.
    >
    > Seven are in the Boston MA area and Calfee are in Santa Cruz, CA.
    >
    > Kinda makes me wonder what your definition of "local" is.

    Whoops. I got Calfee confused with Parlee. I do that sometimes. ;) Boston is my local area, and
    Seven is quite nearby.

    > Seven make nice fancy bikes, but they, like Waterford, are definitely of the "mass-produced
    > custom" variety. They have their habits, tooling, and notions that will limit how "custom" your
    > custom frame can be. That's fine if what you want is fundamentally similar to a production frame.
    >
    > I contacted both of these makers in the hunt for my own custom frame, and neither of them would
    > make a frame whose lengths and tube diameters were in proportion to its height. Waterford were
    > accomodating enough to refer me to a builder who could and would do this for me.

    Who did you wind up going with?

    Dave
     
  16. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    Dave Stallard <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Chalo wrote:
    >
    > > I contacted both of these makers in the hunt for my own custom frame, and neither of them would
    > > make a frame whose lengths and tube diameters were in proportion to its height. Waterford were
    > > accomodating enough to refer me to a builder who could and would do this for me.
    >
    > Who did you wind up going with?

    Dave Bohm of Tucson AZ. Unfortunately, he has taken a mundane job (one with prospects for a steady
    flow of income), so I don't believe he's taking new frame orders at this time. His site is up at
    http://www.bohemianbicycles.com/ , though.

    Chalo Colina
     
  17. larrynipon

    larrynipon New Member

    Joined:
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    If $$ no object, the Lemond Tete De Course. The BEST bike for the $$ is the Trek 5200...hands down!


     
  18. David Storm <[email protected]> wrote:
    : I was also considering a Seven Axiom, a beautiful bike, but faltered at the price. I finally
    : bought a Trek 5500 all Dura-Ace for 1/2 the cost of the Seven. I don't regret the decision for a
    : minute. The bike is a pleasure to ride whether out hammering on the flats or long climbing rides
    : in the mountains. The 5200 is an even better buy.

    Seven Alaris Frame $2000.00 Pick A Fork $ 250.00 Dura Ace Build Kit $1400.00 labour $ 250.00
    ========
    $3900.00

    Trek 5500 MSRP $3900.00

    ?

    the alaris frame is 4 ounces heavier than the axiom and stronger.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  19. David Storm

    David Storm Guest

    "David Reuteler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > David Storm <[email protected]> wrote:
    > : I was also considering a Seven Axiom, a beautiful bike, but faltered at
    the
    > : price. I finally bought a Trek 5500 all Dura-Ace for 1/2 the cost of the Seven.
    I
    > : don't regret the decision for a minute. The bike is a pleasure to ride
    whether
    > : out hammering on the flats or long climbing rides in the mountains. The
    5200 is
    > : an even better buy.
    >
    > Seven Alaris Frame $2000.00 Pick A Fork $ 250.00 Dura Ace Build Kit $1400.00 labour $ 250.00
    > ========
    > $3900.00
    >
    > Trek 5500 MSRP $3900.00

    Nope, I paid $2860 for TREK 5500 in July at my LBS. The 5200 was going for $2200 in bike stores here
    in Sacramento.

    The Seven under discussion was the Axiom, not the Alaris. A friend purchased a Seven Axiom last year
    which caused me to lust after an Axiom originally. I'm not sure how it was outfitted completely but
    frame was customized, with top of line Campy and their fancy wound carbon fiber Seven fork (much
    more than $250). Total price was about $6,000, an incredible bike with superb workmanship if you
    want to spend the $$$$$.
     
  20. David Storm <[email protected]> wrote:
    :> Seven Alaris Frame $2000.00 Pick A Fork $ 250.00 Dura Ace Build Kit $1400.00 labour $ 250.00
    :> ========
    :> $3900.00
    :>
    :> Trek 5500 MSRP $3900.00
    :
    : Nope, I paid $2860 for TREK 5500 in July at my LBS.

    whatever. i actually paid $2000/frame + $200/fork + $1000/group = $3200 for mine (a cyclocross
    straight gauge) which is pretty comparable to a trek 5500.

    : The Seven under discussion was the Axiom, not the Alaris. A friend purchased a Seven Axiom last
    : year which caused me to lust after an Axiom originally. I'm not sure how it was outfitted
    : completely but frame was customized, with top of line Campy and their fancy wound carbon fiber
    : Seven fork (much more than $250).

    the wound-up is $400. campagnolo record adds quite a bit to say the least and i'm sure you're
    talking pretty pricey wheels. look you talk like your only choice from seven was a $6000 bike. since
    you couldn't afford that you decided to buy a $3000 bike instead. great. but you could have bought a
    seven for about the same price as your trek.

    & that is my point.

    : Total price was about $6,000, an incredible bike with superb workmanship if you want to spend
    : the $$$$$.

    yea, i understand that it was an axiom. you're paying $700 to save at most 4 ounces which imho is
    totally insane. the alaris is the identical bike w/ straight gauge tubes.

    the trek 5500 frame is $1650 MSRP vs. $2000 for the alaris.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
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