Time trial crank arm length 172.5 vs. 175



On Jun 24, 1:14 pm, Robert Chung <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 9:55 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:[email protected]...
> > On Jun 24, 7:41 am, Donald Munro <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Phil Holman wrote:
> > >> > The consensus was that foot speed is the factor subject to
> > >> > optimization
> > >> > and this can be done with a wide range of crank lengths by changing
> > >> > gear.
>
> > >> I though the consensus was that foot speed is a smelly red fish.
> > >There's a difference between cadence and "foot speed" -- but it's not
> > >clear to me that foot speed is "the factor subject to optimization."
>
> > I'm going from memory from discussions dating back to around 2000.
> > Optimal cadence increases with increased power output. Although higher
> > cadence is less efficient, a higher effective TT speed is obtained.
> > IIRC, the muscle shortening velocity was a factor determining effective
> > speed. If crank arm length increased (decreased) then a lower (higher)
> > cadence was more effective to maintain the same muscle shortening
> > velocity (foot speed).
>
> > Even so, there was quite a wide range of cadences/crank lengths, around
> > what was determined to be optimal, where performance was unaffected.
>
> > In other words. The OP will probably not see any difference in
> > performance with either crank length.
>
> > While there are riders who swear that longer crank arm length is better
> > for TTing, no tests support that hypothesis.
>
> I was unclear. I was focusing on the definite article "the" in "the
> factor subject to optimization." I don't think there's one factor
> subject to optimization.
>
> Martin's research suggests that crank length (within a broad range)
> has little effect on power production, so from a power point of view
> you can pretty much choose what you like (though whether it has an
> effect on, say, efficiency or fatigue hasn't been tested to my
> knowledge).
>
> But the OP's question was about TT'ing. In that case, good TT
> performance isn't just about power, it's about power/CdA. For some
> (many) riders, their road and TT positions are different enough that
> the thigh-torso angle would be compromised if they used the same
> cranks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Like mine, for example. To get even remotely aero, I had to go to
shorter cranks. An unintended plus (for me, anyway) I have a pretty
good spin and prefer higher cadences, so a shorter crank in a slightly
lower gear at higher cadence worked out much better than a longer
crank in a higher gear at slower cadence.
 
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:dfac8a1b-3a87-4d13-93a1-610c3d9fee45@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Whether or not a particular height is optimal is one thing, but I can
> tell you unequivocably that I can tell a difference between 1 or 2 mm
> changes in my saddle height, not only in 'feel' but also whether or
> not I will have knee pain following a ride on too low or too high a
> saddle. If I were to move my saddle from my preferred position by 5mm
> either way, I'd develop knee pain within a mile unless I were just
> noodling along at about 100 watts worth of power to the pedals.

You cannot detect 1 or 2 mm since that is about 0.1% of the distance from
the saddle to the pedal. The human body has a difficult time detecting
anything smaller than 2% variations successfully.
 
In article
<b6835c45-319a-4347-9f53-e329f80c1765@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jun 24, 2:13 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > In previous threads, some posters have claimed exquisite sensitivity
> > to 172.5 mm versus 175 mm (or versus 170 mm) cranks, saying that the
> > longer crank makes their knees hurt.
>
> 165's compared to 172.5's in my case, and your sarcasm is misplaced.
> Or, let's just say I personally know better than to listen to your
> advice or opinion on this subject <g>.
>
> > You could experiment by having someone swap a few cranks and seeing if
> > you notice the difference.
>
> Done... But, freely admitting that once I put the 165's on the road
> bike, done only to "go specific" in my "training" for track racing
> (where 165's are the usual fare, if not as universally chosen as they
> perhaps once were), and my almost-always ("always", but I won't claim
> perfection here!) sore-in-a-certain-way knees weren't sore in that
> very unpleasant manner after one intense ride, and never developed
> that particular pain again (maybe two or three "reminders" in eight or
> nine years hence, but never the same deal), I wasn't in the least
> tempted to slap the ol' 172.5's back on just to see if I could make
> the long-gimpy knee joints hurt again.
>
> Forgive me, I would have dosed a volunteer subject with ulcer-causing
> bacteria (H. pylori I think they call it) while the issue was in
> doubt, rather than myself, too <g>. I guess I'm just not one of those
> "anything for science" type of guys.
>
> Speaking of science, Andrew Coggan, Shaun Wallace, James Martin would
> be a few names to google the group for. Medals, championships,
> exercise physiology doctorates (published research) there.
>
> <http://www.bases.org.uk/newsite/cyclingsig.asp> for one quick grab I
> (confessing) didn't read but seemed like it might be OK.
>
> Mr. Wallace posted an interesting story here some years ago IRT an ill-
> chosen (as it turned out) change (IMS, 2.5mm difference) in crank
> length as it affected his performance in a velodrome race. --D-y

Mr. D., you are a scholar, a philanthropist, and a gentleman.
I would never set CF straight on a matter, preferring to see
him continue as a Mr. Rogers with delusions of Samuel Clemens
dispensing bad advice.

--
Michael Press
 
On Jun 24, 2:05 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:dfac8a1b-3a87-4d13-93a1-610c3d9fee45@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Whether or not a particular height is optimal is one thing, but I can
> > tell you unequivocably that I can tell a difference between 1 or 2 mm
> > changes in my saddle height, not only in 'feel' but also whether or
> > not I will have knee pain following a ride on too low or too high a
> > saddle.  If I were to move my saddle from my preferred position by 5mm
> > either way, I'd develop knee pain within a mile unless I were just
> > noodling along at about 100 watts worth of power to the pedals.
>
> You cannot detect 1 or 2 mm since that is about 0.1% of the distance from
> the saddle to the pedal. The human body has a difficult time detecting
> anything smaller than 2% variations successfully.

Man, I should've known you'd eventually come into this thread and tell
someone they were wrong. But, you haven't got a clue about what
you're talking about.

What often feels like a too-high saddle is nothing more than a case of
tight hamstrings, and after any significant effort on my TT bike I
feel like my road bike saddle is too high. I've learned to leave it
alone until I've ridden enough to warm up/loosen up. Usually the too-
high sensation goes away within about 15-20 minutes. If not, I might
lower the saddle a couple of mm, three mm at the most. But... if I
screw up and leave it there for any length of time at all I'll develop
serious pain under the kneecap. Move the saddle back up to where it
belongs, and knee pain is gone.

Can I get on the bike and tell you if the saddle is 75.3 cm vs 75.5 cm
vs 75.7 cm from the BB? No. But, I can get on almost any bike with
the saddle within a cm or two of my preferred saddle height and tell
you within 10 min of riding how much to raise or lower the saddle to
get it to where I want it, and it won't take a second adjustment to
get it right.

Hell, I've even gotten on a new bike that had the saddle set at my
desired height based on an actual measurement, and by sitting on it
for just a minute or so I can tell you how much to adjust for a saddle
that flexes too much.

Oh, hell... what do I know??? You're right, Tom. Sorry for misleading
everyone.
 
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ad670c75-459b-40c1-ba0c-e1dc0ed30101@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 24, 2:05 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > news:dfac8a1b-3a87-4d13-93a1-610c3d9fee45@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > Whether or not a particular height is optimal is one thing, but I can
> > > tell you unequivocably that I can tell a difference between 1 or 2 mm
> > > changes in my saddle height, not only in 'feel' but also whether or
> > > not I will have knee pain following a ride on too low or too high a
> > > saddle. If I were to move my saddle from my preferred position by 5mm
> > > either way, I'd develop knee pain within a mile unless I were just
> > > noodling along at about 100 watts worth of power to the pedals.
> >
> > You cannot detect 1 or 2 mm since that is about 0.1% of the distance
> > from
> > the saddle to the pedal. The human body has a difficult time detecting
> > anything smaller than 2% variations successfully.
>
> Man, I should've known you'd eventually come into this thread and tell
> someone they were wrong. But, you haven't got a clue about what
> you're talking about.

Followed by:

> Can I get on the bike and tell you if the saddle is 75.3 cm vs 75.5 cm
> vs 75.7 cm from the BB? No. But, I can get on almost any bike with
> the saddle within a cm or two of my preferred saddle height and tell
> you within 10 min of riding how much to raise or lower the saddle to
> get it to where I want it, and it won't take a second adjustment to
> get it right.

Psst - a centimeter or two is around 2%, I hate to point this out to you but
you're agreeing with me. Yet it bothers you that I say almost exactly what
you just said.

> Hell, I've even gotten on a new bike that had the saddle set at my
> desired height based on an actual measurement, and by sitting on it
> for just a minute or so I can tell you how much to adjust for a saddle
> that flexes too much.

And when you're able to detect 2% I would be surprised if you couldn't tell
that the saddle was way off since flexible saddles can bend a centimeter or
two as well.

> Oh, hell... what do I know??? You're right, Tom. Sorry for misleading
> everyone.

You seem to know enough to agree with me while saying that you don't.
 
On Jun 24, 6:38 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:ad670c75-459b-40c1-ba0c-e1dc0ed30101@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 24, 2:05 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > >news:dfac8a1b-3a87-4d13-93a1-610c3d9fee45@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com....
>
> > > > Whether or not a particular height is optimal is one thing, but I can
> > > > tell you unequivocably that I can tell a difference between 1 or 2 mm
> > > > changes in my saddle height, not only in 'feel' but also whether or
> > > > not I will have knee pain following a ride on too low or too high a
> > > > saddle. If I were to move my saddle from my preferred position by 5mm
> > > > either way, I'd develop knee pain within a mile unless I were just
> > > > noodling along at about 100 watts worth of power to the pedals.
>
> > > You cannot detect 1 or 2 mm since that is about 0.1% of the distance
> > > from
> > > the saddle to the pedal. The human body has a difficult time detecting
> > > anything smaller than 2% variations successfully.
>
> > Man, I should've known you'd eventually come into this thread and tell
> > someone they were wrong.  But, you haven't got a clue about what
> > you're talking about.
>
> Followed by:
>
> > Can I get on the bike and tell you if the saddle is 75.3 cm vs 75.5 cm
> > vs 75.7 cm from the BB?  No.  But, I can get on almost any bike with
> > the saddle within a cm or two of my preferred saddle height and tell
> > you within 10 min of riding how much to raise or lower the saddle to
> > get it to where I want it, and it won't take a second adjustment to
> > get it right.
>
> Psst - a centimeter or two is around 2%, I hate to point this out to you but
> you're agreeing with me. Yet it bothers you that I say almost exactly what
> you just said.
>
> > Hell, I've even gotten on a new bike that had the saddle set at my
> > desired height based on an actual measurement, and by sitting on it
> > for just a minute or so I can tell you how much to adjust for a saddle
> > that flexes too much.
>
> And when you're able to detect 2% I would be surprised if you couldn't tell
> that the saddle was way off since flexible saddles can bend a centimeter or
> two as well.
>
> > Oh, hell... what do I know???  You're right, Tom. Sorry for misleading
> > everyone.
>
> You seem to know enough to agree with me while saying that you don't.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dumbass... I didn't say I could only tell if the saddle height was off
by 2cm. I said within a cm or two I can tell you how much to move it
to get it right without measuring first. Beyond a couple of cm out of
norm it's so far off that I can't tell how much to adjust without
measuring first. A couple of mm is within the 2cm limit, and yes... I
can tell if I need to move the seatpost by only 1 or 2 mm. Big
difference in that and agreeing with your dumb ass.
 
Scott wrote:
> On Jun 24, 2:05�pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:dfac8a1b-3a87-4d13-93a1-610c3d9fee45@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>> Whether or not a particular height is optimal is one thing, but I can
>>> tell you unequivocably that I can tell a difference between 1 or 2 mm
>>> changes in my saddle height, not only in 'feel' but also whether or
>>> not I will have knee pain following a ride on too low or too high a
>>> saddle. �If I were to move my saddle from my preferred position by 5mm
>>> either way, I'd develop knee pain within a mile unless I were just
>>> noodling along at about 100 watts worth of power to the pedals.
>> You cannot detect 1 or 2 mm since that is about 0.1% of the distance from
>> the saddle to the pedal. The human body has a difficult time detecting
>> anything smaller than 2% variations successfully.
>
> Man, I should've known you'd eventually come into this thread and tell
> someone they were wrong. But, you haven't got a clue about what
> you're talking about.
>
> What often feels like a too-high saddle is nothing more than a case of
> tight hamstrings, and after any significant effort on my TT bike I
> feel like my road bike saddle is too high. I've learned to leave it
> alone until I've ridden enough to warm up/loosen up. Usually the too-
> high sensation goes away within about 15-20 minutes. If not, I might
> lower the saddle a couple of mm, three mm at the most. But... if I
> screw up and leave it there for any length of time at all I'll develop
> serious pain under the kneecap. Move the saddle back up to where it
> belongs, and knee pain is gone.
>
> Can I get on the bike and tell you if the saddle is 75.3 cm vs 75.5 cm
> vs 75.7 cm from the BB? No. But, I can get on almost any bike with
> the saddle within a cm or two of my preferred saddle height and tell
> you within 10 min of riding how much to raise or lower the saddle to
> get it to where I want it, and it won't take a second adjustment to
> get it right.
>
> Hell, I've even gotten on a new bike that had the saddle set at my
> desired height based on an actual measurement, and by sitting on it
> for just a minute or so I can tell you how much to adjust for a saddle
> that flexes too much.
>
> Oh, hell... what do I know??? You're right, Tom. Sorry for misleading
> everyone.

you're not alone, but kunich could never respect that - he's only here
to **** and moan. and in that respect, this forum, unfortunately, feeds
his trolling only too well.
 
On Jun 24, 8:29 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 6:38 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:ad670c75-459b-40c1-ba0c-e1dc0ed30101@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On Jun 24, 2:05 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > > "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:dfac8a1b-3a87-4d13-93a1-610c3d9fee45@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > Whether or not a particular height is optimal is one thing, but I can
> > > > > tell you unequivocably that I can tell a difference between 1 or 2 mm
> > > > > changes in my saddle height, not only in 'feel' but also whether or
> > > > > not I will have knee pain following a ride on too low or too high a
> > > > > saddle. If I were to move my saddle from my preferred position by 5mm
> > > > > either way, I'd develop knee pain within a mile unless I were just
> > > > > noodling along at about 100 watts worth of power to the pedals.
>
> > > > You cannot detect 1 or 2 mm since that is about 0.1% of the distance
> > > > from
> > > > the saddle to the pedal. The human body has a difficult time detecting
> > > > anything smaller than 2% variations successfully.
>
> > > Man, I should've known you'd eventually come into this thread and tell
> > > someone they were wrong. But, you haven't got a clue about what
> > > you're talking about.
>
> > Followed by:
>
> > > Can I get on the bike and tell you if the saddle is 75.3 cm vs 75.5 cm
> > > vs 75.7 cm from the BB? No. But, I can get on almost any bike with
> > > the saddle within a cm or two of my preferred saddle height and tell
> > > you within 10 min of riding how much to raise or lower the saddle to
> > > get it to where I want it, and it won't take a second adjustment to
> > > get it right.
>
> > Psst - a centimeter or two is around 2%, I hate to point this out to you but
> > you're agreeing with me. Yet it bothers you that I say almost exactly what
> > you just said.
>
> > > Hell, I've even gotten on a new bike that had the saddle set at my
> > > desired height based on an actual measurement, and by sitting on it
> > > for just a minute or so I can tell you how much to adjust for a saddle
> > > that flexes too much.
>
> > And when you're able to detect 2% I would be surprised if you couldn't tell
> > that the saddle was way off since flexible saddles can bend a centimeter or
> > two as well.
>
> > > Oh, hell... what do I know??? You're right, Tom. Sorry for misleading
> > > everyone.
>
> > You seem to know enough to agree with me while saying that you don't.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Dumbass... I didn't say I could only tell if the saddle height was off
> by 2cm. I said within a cm or two I can tell you how much to move it
> to get it right without measuring first. Beyond a couple of cm out of
> norm it's so far off that I can't tell how much to adjust without
> measuring first. A couple of mm is within the 2cm limit, and yes... I
> can tell if I need to move the seatpost by only 1 or 2 mm. Big
> difference in that and agreeing with your dumb ass.

If Scott's saddle height is off by 1 mm the entire peloton notices
it.

Bret
 
On Jun 24, 9:30 pm, Bret <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 8:29 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 24, 6:38 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > > "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > >news:ad670c75-459b-40c1-ba0c-e1dc0ed30101@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com....
>
> > > > On Jun 24, 2:05 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > > > "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:dfac8a1b-3a87-4d13-93a1-610c3d9fee45@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups..com...
>
> > > > > > Whether or not a particular height is optimal is one thing, butI can
> > > > > > tell you unequivocably that I can tell a difference between 1 or 2 mm
> > > > > > changes in my saddle height, not only in 'feel' but also whether or
> > > > > > not I will have knee pain following a ride on too low or too high a
> > > > > > saddle. If I were to move my saddle from my preferred position by 5mm
> > > > > > either way, I'd develop knee pain within a mile unless I were just
> > > > > > noodling along at about 100 watts worth of power to the pedals.
>
> > > > > You cannot detect 1 or 2 mm since that is about 0.1% of the distance
> > > > > from
> > > > > the saddle to the pedal. The human body has a difficult time detecting
> > > > > anything smaller than 2% variations successfully.
>
> > > > Man, I should've known you'd eventually come into this thread and tell
> > > > someone they were wrong.  But, you haven't got a clue about what
> > > > you're talking about.
>
> > > Followed by:
>
> > > > Can I get on the bike and tell you if the saddle is 75.3 cm vs 75.5cm
> > > > vs 75.7 cm from the BB?  No.  But, I can get on almost any bikewith
> > > > the saddle within a cm or two of my preferred saddle height and tell
> > > > you within 10 min of riding how much to raise or lower the saddle to
> > > > get it to where I want it, and it won't take a second adjustment to
> > > > get it right.
>
> > > Psst - a centimeter or two is around 2%, I hate to point this out to you but
> > > you're agreeing with me. Yet it bothers you that I say almost exactlywhat
> > > you just said.
>
> > > > Hell, I've even gotten on a new bike that had the saddle set at my
> > > > desired height based on an actual measurement, and by sitting on it
> > > > for just a minute or so I can tell you how much to adjust for a saddle
> > > > that flexes too much.
>
> > > And when you're able to detect 2% I would be surprised if you couldn't tell
> > > that the saddle was way off since flexible saddles can bend a centimeter or
> > > two as well.
>
> > > > Oh, hell... what do I know???  You're right, Tom. Sorry for misleading
> > > > everyone.
>
> > > You seem to know enough to agree with me while saying that you don't.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Dumbass... I didn't say I could only tell if the saddle height was off
> > by 2cm.  I said within a cm or two I can tell you how much to move it
> > to get it right without measuring first.  Beyond a couple of cm out of
> > norm it's so far off that I can't tell how much to adjust without
> > measuring first. A couple of mm is within the 2cm limit, and yes... I
> > can tell if I need to move the seatpost by only 1 or 2 mm.  Big
> > difference in that and agreeing with your dumb ass.
>
>  If Scott's saddle height is off by 1 mm the entire peloton notices
> it.
>
> Bret- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey, wait a minute... Have you been staring at my **** again?
 
On Jun 24, 8:48 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 9:30 pm, Bret <[email protected]> wrote:

> >  If Scott's saddle height is off by 1 mm the entire peloton notices
> > it.
>
> Hey, wait a minute... Have you been staring at my **** again?

He wouldn't have to do that if you'd stop asking, "does this saddle
height make my ass look fat?"
 
On Jun 24, 9:48 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 9:30 pm, Bret <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 24, 8:29 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 24, 6:38 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > > > "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:ad670c75-459b-40c1-ba0c-e1dc0ed30101@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > On Jun 24, 2:05 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > > > > "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:dfac8a1b-3a87-4d13-93a1-610c3d9fee45@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > Whether or not a particular height is optimal is one thing, but I can
> > > > > > > tell you unequivocably that I can tell a difference between 1 or 2 mm
> > > > > > > changes in my saddle height, not only in 'feel' but also whether or
> > > > > > > not I will have knee pain following a ride on too low or too high a
> > > > > > > saddle. If I were to move my saddle from my preferred position by 5mm
> > > > > > > either way, I'd develop knee pain within a mile unless I were just
> > > > > > > noodling along at about 100 watts worth of power to the pedals.
>
> > > > > > You cannot detect 1 or 2 mm since that is about 0.1% of the distance
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > the saddle to the pedal. The human body has a difficult time detecting
> > > > > > anything smaller than 2% variations successfully.
>
> > > > > Man, I should've known you'd eventually come into this thread and tell
> > > > > someone they were wrong. But, you haven't got a clue about what
> > > > > you're talking about.
>
> > > > Followed by:
>
> > > > > Can I get on the bike and tell you if the saddle is 75.3 cm vs 75.5 cm
> > > > > vs 75.7 cm from the BB? No. But, I can get on almost any bike with
> > > > > the saddle within a cm or two of my preferred saddle height and tell
> > > > > you within 10 min of riding how much to raise or lower the saddle to
> > > > > get it to where I want it, and it won't take a second adjustment to
> > > > > get it right.
>
> > > > Psst - a centimeter or two is around 2%, I hate to point this out to you but
> > > > you're agreeing with me. Yet it bothers you that I say almost exactly what
> > > > you just said.
>
> > > > > Hell, I've even gotten on a new bike that had the saddle set at my
> > > > > desired height based on an actual measurement, and by sitting on it
> > > > > for just a minute or so I can tell you how much to adjust for a saddle
> > > > > that flexes too much.
>
> > > > And when you're able to detect 2% I would be surprised if you couldn't tell
> > > > that the saddle was way off since flexible saddles can bend a centimeter or
> > > > two as well.
>
> > > > > Oh, hell... what do I know??? You're right, Tom. Sorry for misleading
> > > > > everyone.
>
> > > > You seem to know enough to agree with me while saying that you don't.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Dumbass... I didn't say I could only tell if the saddle height was off
> > > by 2cm. I said within a cm or two I can tell you how much to move it
> > > to get it right without measuring first. Beyond a couple of cm out of
> > > norm it's so far off that I can't tell how much to adjust without
> > > measuring first. A couple of mm is within the 2cm limit, and yes... I
> > > can tell if I need to move the seatpost by only 1 or 2 mm. Big
> > > difference in that and agreeing with your dumb ass.
>
> > If Scott's saddle height is off by 1 mm the entire peloton notices
> > it.
>
> > Bret- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hey, wait a minute... Have you been staring at my **** again?

No, we can tell by listening.
 
On Jun 24, 8:48 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 9:30 pm, Bret <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Jun 24, 8:29 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Dumbass... I didn't say I could only tell if the saddle height was off
> > > by 2cm.  I said within a cm or two I can tell you how much to move it
> > > to get it right without measuring first.  Beyond a couple of cm outof
> > > norm it's so far off that I can't tell how much to adjust without
> > > measuring first. A couple of mm is within the 2cm limit, and yes... I
> > > can tell if I need to move the seatpost by only 1 or 2 mm.  Big
> > > difference in that and agreeing with your dumb ass.
>
> >  If Scott's saddle height is off by 1 mm the entire peloton notices
> > it.
>
> > Bret
>
> Hey, wait a minute... Have you been staring at my **** again?

When you ride up to people and ask if they've
got an allen wrench, that's the tipoff.

Hey, can you hold my post while I adjust this nut?

Ben
You people have dirty minds.
 
On Jun 25, 6:42 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 11:34 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm big boned.
>
> Size isn't everything.
>
> Sorry.
>
> Someone had to tell him.  --D-y

I'm guessing you're not a 'South Park' fan, or perhaps you'd have
caught the reference to Cartman's constant retort to any time the
other kids call him fat.
 
On Jun 25, 10:54 am, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm guessing you're not a 'South Park' fan, or perhaps you'd have
> caught the reference to Cartman's constant retort to any time the
> other kids call him fat.

So much popular culture, so little time! --D-y
 
In article
<2af33847-8bd4-4398-a42a-d45a833cd2e8@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Scott <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jun 25, 6:42 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Jun 24, 11:34 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm big boned.
> >
> > Size isn't everything.
> >
> > Sorry.
> >
> > Someone had to tell him.  --D-y
>
> I'm guessing you're not a 'South Park' fan, or perhaps you'd have
> caught the reference to Cartman's constant retort to any time the
> other kids call him fat.

Parker and Stone did not make it up.
The excuse was in circulation before South Park.

--
Michael Press
 
On Jun 24, 2:14 pm, Robert Chung <[email protected]> wrote:

> Martin's research suggests that crank length (within a broad range)
> has little effect on power production, so from a power point of view
> you can pretty much choose what you like (though whether it has an
> effect on, say, efficiency or fatigue hasn't been tested to my
> knowledge).

No discernable, independent impact on efficiency either:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

As for fatigue, Jim's done some work in this area that has
implications re. optimal crank length, but since it is unpublished I
really shouldn't discuss it.

Andy Coggan
 
On Jun 25, 2:56 pm, Andy Coggan <[email protected]> wrote:

> As for fatigue, Jim's done some work in this area that has
> implications re. optimal crank length, but since it is unpublished I
> really shouldn't discuss it.

Tease.
 
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