Tour de France - is it unAmerican?

[Kevan Smith]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:48:34 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> from Balsa Pacific Aero Ltd.
Engineering & Bicycle Mongery wrote:

>Sat, 26 Jul 2003 17:38:10 -0500, <[email protected]>, Kevan Smith
><[email protected]/\/\> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:37:31 GMT, "Michael" <[email protected]> from wrote:
>>
>>>He does have a point. I can't think of another American sport where you help your opponent when
>>>he or she is down so it will be a fair competition.
>>
>>Ultimate. Not that many people have heard of it, but there ya go.
>
>"There are only 3 real sports: bull-fighting, car racing and mountain climbing. All the others are
>mere games." — Hemingway

Ha! What a maroon!

--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace MMM-MM!! So THIS is BIO-NEBULATION!
6:56:05 PM 26 July 2003

 

[Slider2699]

"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Excerpts from King Kaufman's column in Salon -
>
> I think the Tour de France leaves Americans cold because it is almost perfectly antithetical to
> the American character.
>

This guy is totally wrong. Athletes in American sports used to exhibit the same spirit of fair play
and sportsmanship. There was a time when a linebacker helped the QB up after a sack. Now the
linebacker celebrates while the QB is down. Basketball players used to score without the "in your
face" actions of today's players. I find the TdF to be uplifting, a reminder of the beauty of sport.
It's a shame that American sports have been reduced to the unpleasant spectacle the author admires.

 

[Robert Hampton]

Slider2699 wrote:
> "Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Excerpts from King Kaufman's column in Salon -
>>
>>I think the Tour de France leaves Americans cold because it is almost perfectly antithetical to
>>the American character.
>
> This guy is totally wrong. Athletes in American sports used to exhibit the same spirit of fair
> play and sportsmanship. There was a time when a linebacker helped the QB up after a sack. Now the
> linebacker celebrates while the QB is down. Basketball players used to score without the "in your
> face" actions of today's players. I find the TdF to be uplifting, a reminder of the beauty of
> sport. It's a shame that American sports have been reduced to the unpleasant spectacle the author
> admires.

Helping your opponent up after a sack is one thing and many still do it. The tight end slowing down
when his pursuer trips and falls will never happen. There's a big difference.

--
Robert Hampton Genesis POS http://www.genesispos.com
(866) 942-8813 Voice
(867) 942-8872 Fax

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:51:39 +0000, Steve wrote:

> I don't think I'm a bad guy. I think I'm in the absolute dead-center mainstream of American
> thought here. This is the national character speaking.

********. Don't try to speak for me.

> I think that down in our bones, most of us can't fathom this business of gentlemanliness and
>sportsmanship.

That would be your problem.

> It just doesn't speak to us.

And you do not speak for us.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass. _`\(,_ | What are you on?"
--Lance Armstrong (_)/ (_) |

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:27:32 +0000, Pat wrote:

> Henry, it's just his opinion: he is only saying how HE personally would react.

No, he's not. He is saying that his kick-'em-in-the-nuts-when-they're-down attitude is "American",
which I find repugnant.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve _`\(,_ | death. And some that die
deserve life. Can you give it to (_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in
judgement. -- J. R. R. Tolkein

 

[Bernie]

Michael wrote:

> "Joe Potter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Steve wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Excerpts from King Kaufman's column in Salon -
> > >
> > > I think the Tour de France leaves Americans cold because it is almost perfectly antithetical
> > > to the American character. ...
> > >
> >
> > He has a point. No women or children died of "collateral damage" in the whole damn race. So,
> > what good is it?
> >
> > All this wasted energy, when they could be off killing poor little brown kids in far-away lands
> > on the theory that someday in the far future they *might* find a way to hurt "real Americans".
> >
>
> He does have a point. I can't think of another American sport where you help your opponent when he
> or she is down so it will be a fair competition.
>
> M.

What do you mean "another American sport" ? Bicycle racing is an international sport in which
Americans participate. Don't you agree? Bernie

 

[Michael]

"Bernie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Michael wrote:
>
> > "Joe Potter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Steve wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Excerpts from King Kaufman's column in Salon -
> > > >
> > > > I think the Tour de France leaves Americans cold because it is
almost
> > > > perfectly antithetical to the American character. ...
> > > >
> > >
> > > He has a point. No women or children died of "collateral damage" in
the
> > > whole damn race. So, what good is it?
> > >
> > > All this wasted energy, when they could be off killing poor little
brown
> > > kids in far-away lands on the theory that someday in the far future
they
> > > *might* find a way to hurt "real Americans".
> > >
> >
> > He does have a point. I can't think of another American sport where you help your opponent when
> > he or she is down so it will be a fair competition.
> >
> > M.
>
> What do you mean "another American sport" ? Bicycle racing is an international sport in which
> Americans participate. Don't you agree? Bernie

Yes, you are quite correct. The example of a team kicking the ball out of bounds in soccer
(football) when there is an injury to the opposite team is right on point.

M.

 

[Kevan Smith]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:13:22 -0500, Robert Hampton <[email protected]> from Genesis POS wrote:

>Helping your opponent up after a sack is one thing and many still do it. The tight end slowing down
>when his pursuer trips and falls will never happen. There's a big difference.

On the gridiron, that's part of the game. It's neither sporting or unfair. It's just part
of the game.

Baseball has lots of sportsmanship built into the rules. The players are so acclimated to it, that
you hardly notice. For example, examine the whole notion of a dead ball and what is and is not
allowed between plays.

--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace
DIDI ... is that a MARTIAN name, or, are we in ISRAEL?
12:49:10 AM 27 July 2003

 

[Preston Crawfor]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:51:39 +0000, Steve wrote:

> And if you see his wallet while he's down there, take it.
>
> Sportsmanship means helping him up after you've cleaned his clock. Before then, it can be summed
> up in these three words: Don't cheat blatantly.

This is why I hate the culture of this country I live in. If it's not this it's yell at the cyclist
because he's in your way and you're more important. Yell at the cashier because they're not fast
enough and you're in a hurry. Step on anyone you can to get ahead.

Great country we have here.

Preston

 

[Terry Morse]

Steve wrote:

> And when my closest rival hits the deck and has to spend a minute getting untangled from that
> spectator who got in his way, well, sorry pal, but I'm turning on the jets.

You wouldn't last long in the peloton before you were eating chip and seal, mister Salon Writer Guy.
The pack has its own way of dealing with those who break the code.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

 

[Fred]

I'd consider moving, if I were you. I really despise Americans who fail to appreciate what they
have. Go live under a dictatorial regime or a third world economy. I have. It will teach you a
renewed appreciation for what you have. It is not only a great country we have here but the absolute
best. Love it or leave it or change it but don't complain about it.

Fred

"Preston Crawford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:51:39 +0000, Steve wrote:
>
> > And if you see his wallet while he's down there, take it.
> >
> > Sportsmanship means helping him up after you've cleaned his clock. Before then, it can be summed
> > up in these three words: Don't cheat blatantly.
>
> This is why I hate the culture of this country I live in. If it's not this it's yell at the
> cyclist because he's in your way and you're more important. Yell at the cashier because they're
> not fast enough and you're in a hurry. Step on anyone you can to get ahead.
>
> Great country we have here.
>
> Preston

 

[Pat]

x-no-archive:yes

>
> It's not sportsman like to beat up on your opponent when they are down. Even boxing has rules for
> this. I don't know the rules for real
wrestling,
> but I know there's certain parts of each other's body they avoid. Of course, if you opponent is
> out for good, you go ahead and take your win,
but
> winning by default can't be as satisfying as beating a healthy and worthy opponent. I think it is
> sad if it has become American to do whatever possible to make the contest unfair.

Well, you can rest easy, because it has NOT "become American to do whatever possible to make the
contest unfair." Sheesh! One hack writes such a thing and that makes it fact? Get real!

Pat in TX

 

[Pat]

x-no-archive:yes

> > Henry, it's just his opinion: he is only saying how HE personally would react.

>
> No, he's not. He is saying that his
kick-'em-in-the-nuts-when-they're-down
> attitude is "American", which I find repugnant.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>

And what from that article makes you think that those aren't his personal beliefs? He is trying and
convicting an entire nation based on an opinion that he doesn't share? That's not logical. And, yes,
not only is it repugnant, but it is false.

Pat in TX

 

[Pat]

x-no-archive:yes

> >> He does have a point. I can't think of another American sport where you help your opponent when
> >> he or she is down so it will be a fair competition.
> >
> >Soccer has this tradition, including in the MLS and WUSA.

>
> AFAIK, Soccer isn't really considered an "American" sport until you get into South America.
>
> I've seen basketball players help their opponents back to their feet after they've inadvertently
> knocked them down. But, then again, basketball was a Canadian invention.
>
> Polo, another un-American sport, is based on mutual respect.
>
> Motorsport has its yellow flag that, when held stationary, indicates no overtaking. Yankees are
> big on motorsport but they didn't invent it either. It's French.
> --
> zk

It doesn't matter who invented the sport---if Americans play it then it is an "American sport." You
are nitpicking.

Pat in TX

 

[Pat]

x-no-archive:yes

>
> This is why I hate the culture of this country I live in. If it's not this it's yell at the
> cyclist because he's in your way and you're more important. Yell at the cashier because they're
> not fast enough and you're in a hurry. Step on anyone you can to get ahead.
>
> Great country we have here.
>
> Preston

Preston, you are making the same mistake that the Salon writer did: don't generalize for the entire
country, the entire culture. I don't know where you live, but it is NOT representative of the entire
country. Get a grip, man!

Pat in TX.

 

[Mark Hickey]

"Preston Crawford" <[email protected]> wrote:

>This is why I hate the culture of this country I live in. If it's not this it's yell at the cyclist
>because he's in your way and you're more important. Yell at the cashier because they're not fast
>enough and you're in a hurry. Step on anyone you can to get ahead.
>
>Great country we have here.

Sounds awful. I'm glad I don't live there.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Mark Jones]

"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Preston, you are making the same mistake that the Salon writer did: don't generalize for the
> entire country, the entire culture. I don't know where you live, but it is NOT representative of
> the entire country. Get a grip, man!
Well said this is not the general situation for most parts of the country. Just because some hack
sports writer says something does not make it true.

 

[Luigi De Guzman]

"Fred" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I'd consider moving, if I were you. I really despise Americans who fail to appreciate what they
> have. Go live under a dictatorial regime or a third world economy. I have. It will teach you a
> renewed appreciation for what you have. It is not only a great country we have here but the
> absolute best. Love it or leave it or change it but don't complain about it.
>
> Fred

Queries:

1) Is top-posting American?

2) If you don't complain, how do you change?

3) If going somewhere else doesn't cause you to question where you've been, even a little bit, have
you wasted your time?

-Luigi

**** sum; nil humanorum a me alienum puto

 

[Kevan Smith]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:01:44 GMT, "Preston Crawford" <[email protected]> from
EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:51:39 +0000, Steve wrote:
>
>> And if you see his wallet while he's down there, take it.
>>
>> Sportsmanship means helping him up after you've cleaned his clock. Before then, it can be summed
>> up in these three words: Don't cheat blatantly.
>
>This is why I hate the culture of this country I live in. If it's not this it's yell at the cyclist
>because he's in your way and you're more important. Yell at the cashier because they're not fast
>enough and you're in a hurry. Step on anyone you can to get ahead.

I really enjoy being nice to cashiers, waiters, etc. When I'm out on my bike, I even tell them to
take their time because I'm in no hurry. Often it makes their day, and the smile I get is a real one
instead of the phony, pasted-on one for "customers."

--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace I'm having fun HITCHHIKING to CINCINNATI or
FAR ROCKAWAY!!
1:16:25 PM 27 July 2003

 

[Preston Crawfor]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:48:39 +0000, Fred wrote:

> I'd consider moving, if I were you. I really despise Americans who fail to appreciate what they
> have. Go live under a dictatorial regime or a third world economy. I have. It will teach you a
> renewed appreciation for what you have. It is not only a great country we have here but the
> absolute best. Love it or leave it or change it but don't complain about it.
>
> Fred

So the only choices are dictatorship or EVERY-MAN-FOR-HIMSELF crass darwinistic competition? Then I
take that back. I rather don't like this planet I live on.

I'm sure some countries out there approach life a little differently. At least, that's what King
Kaufman was insinuating.

Preston