Training Week Ending March 12, 2006



"Black Metal Martha" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No running this week due to a pulled ligament while skiing last week.
> It was my last afternoon in the Utah mountains. I had skied the steeps,
> bumbs and nasties at Alta and Solitaire Friday and Saturday and decided
> to take it easy Sunday at Brighton. So, I skied to the blues (medium
> skilled tuns) when a boarder ran into me. Damn!!!
>
> Luckily, my knee will be back to normal in a couple of weeks, so it
> wasn't terrible damage. It just might put an end to my ski season,
> though and slows my running progress down by a few weeks. Oh well....
>
> Martha

That really sucks. As a boarder might say... Bummer man. Are you going to
sue the ripper?

-Tony
 
Phil M. wrote:

> Dot wrote:
>
>>Just FYI: Leadville is 100% runnable (except for stream crossings) - at
>>least by Matt Carpenter (check his race report, including goals for
>>2005).
>
>
> OK. Checking my message from my neighbor, he actually said "The power
> hiking is great for me because of the Massanutten 100 and the Hardrock
> 100 coming up." So not Leadville. Sorry.

That makes absolute sense and was almost going to suggest either of those.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
Tony S. wrote:

> Some races are more scenic than others, and most trail races I've done
> weren't worth taking pictures. The VT 50 was scenic in a country way, but I
> don't think it would have photographed well. The escarpment trail is very
> scenic and I did see someone pause to take a picture. But, so far, when I'm
> racing I haven't brought a camera along or stopped to take pictures.

Question for you picture-taking types. How do you carry your camera?
Ideally I'd like something that wouldn't require unhitching myself from
my backpack.

--
Phil M.
 
Doug Freese wrote:
> "Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Yes, this was a new distance and duration for me - 30 min beyond
>>intended time (about 45 min beyond next longest run). Some muscles
>>started tightening (my weakest ones, obviously), and I just walked
>>enough to loosen them to avoid injury and to get some practice walking
>>on tired legs and eat a clif bar.
>
>
> Isn't this basic over-reaching and what training is all about? We inch
> into the unknown, recover, and do it again moving the discomfort zone.
> If we only had a crystal ball to know how much to train to get a
> predictable result. :)
>

Yep, except it was more like a leap, rather than an inch, compared to my
normal increases. :) It was a good confidence builder. I had planned a
recovery week this week anyway, and last night's run seemed reasonably
normal. Now if I can get the hills in there for that duration and then
some. . . (considering stairs or tm if hills aren't in better condition
by next week - ugh)

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
Phil M. wrote:

> Tony S. wrote:
>
>
>>Some races are more scenic than others, and most trail races I've done
>>weren't worth taking pictures. The VT 50 was scenic in a country way, but I
>>don't think it would have photographed well. The escarpment trail is very
>>scenic and I did see someone pause to take a picture. But, so far, when I'm
>>racing I haven't brought a camera along or stopped to take pictures.
>
>
> Question for you picture-taking types. How do you carry your camera?
> Ideally I'd like something that wouldn't require unhitching myself from
> my backpack.
>

My Cannon S410 has a carrying case that works on some of my belts, but
works better in a separate pouch. My current belt pouches are UD - one
of which I stole from an Extender waist belt and one of which I got
somewhere (likely REI?). The built-in pouch on my Strider holds the
camera plus a little extra although if I'm carrying munchies with me,
I'll usually put the camera in the built-in pouch and put the munchies
and other light goodies in another pouch.

My Cloudwalker has a wider waistbelt, and I can just attach the pouches
with no problems. My Lobo has a narrow waistbelt where the pouches
slide, so I may tie them to the rear with a shoe string (slip knot), and
pull it forward when I need it. There's a sweet spot to the side and
slightly back where I can position it and it doesn't bounce.

On rare occasion I may carry it in Napoleon pocket of a top - some work
better than others - or in my Sporthill xc pockets if I'm running
without any sort of pack.

A biking friend has a smaller camera about the size of a Sucrets case
and generally carries it in a zipped pocket. I saw some of his pictures
from his recent ride to Rainy Pass, and they're really good, esp. for
that size camera.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
Phil M. wrote:

> Question for you picture-taking types. How do you carry your camera?
> Ideally I'd like something that wouldn't require unhitching myself from
> my backpack.

Amphipod pouch on my waistpack. They come in 2 sizes, offers a little
padding and has a velcro closure that makes getting it in/out a snap.

http://www.amphipod.com/270-275/270.html

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/
 
Tony S. wrote:
> "Black Metal Martha" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > No running this week due to a pulled ligament while skiing last week.
> > It was my last afternoon in the Utah mountains. I had skied the steeps,
> > bumbs and nasties at Alta and Solitaire Friday and Saturday and decided
> > to take it easy Sunday at Brighton. So, I skied to the blues (medium
> > skilled tuns) when a boarder ran into me. Damn!!!
> >
> > Luckily, my knee will be back to normal in a couple of weeks, so it
> > wasn't terrible damage. It just might put an end to my ski season,
> > though and slows my running progress down by a few weeks. Oh well....
> >
> > Martha
>
> That really sucks. As a boarder might say... Bummer man. Are you going to
> sue the ripper?
>
Why? **** happens. She wasn't out of control, just not as careful as
she should have been. Boarders forget they have a blind spot.
Hopefully, she'll be more careful the next time.

Martha
 
"Black Metal Martha" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Tony S. wrote:
> > "Black Metal Martha" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > No running this week due to a pulled ligament while skiing last week.
> > > It was my last afternoon in the Utah mountains. I had skied the
steeps,
> > > bumbs and nasties at Alta and Solitaire Friday and Saturday and
decided
> > > to take it easy Sunday at Brighton. So, I skied to the blues (medium
> > > skilled tuns) when a boarder ran into me. Damn!!!
> > >
> > > Luckily, my knee will be back to normal in a couple of weeks, so it
> > > wasn't terrible damage. It just might put an end to my ski season,
> > > though and slows my running progress down by a few weeks. Oh well....
> > >
> > > Martha
> >
> > That really sucks. As a boarder might say... Bummer man. Are you going
to
> > sue the ripper?
> >
> Why? **** happens. She wasn't out of control, just not as careful as
> she should have been. Boarders forget they have a blind spot.
> Hopefully, she'll be more careful the next time.
>
> Martha

Just checking. I like your attitude.

-Tony
 
On 15 Mar 2006 10:59:10 -0800, "Black Metal Martha"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> She wasn't out of control, just not as careful as
>she should have been

Exactly why she deserves to be sued, it was an avoidable accident if
she'd just paid attention. Do that in a car and you're dead.
 
"Tony S." <[email protected]> wrote

>> Total: 79 miles, 11,600' of climbing.
>
> ok ok, trailrunner made a bid for it, but you're back to being the king of
> the mountains for this group.

Nah, 100 miles that Trailrunner did (including 2 50k's in the hills, I
recall) tops this.

I haven't hit 100 mpw w/mountains since '84. I just might, for grins. But
some of it's gonna be ugly!
 
"Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote

>> > Total: 79 miles, 11,600' of climbing.
>>
>> ok ok, trailrunner made a bid for it, but you're back to being the king
>> of
>> the mountains for this group.
>
> Yeah, and probably 100% running. It makes me sick! ;-)

Actually, I hiked about 60 yards of it... :)
 
"Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Question for you picture-taking types. How do you carry your camera?
> Ideally I'd like something that wouldn't require unhitching myself
> from
> my backpack.

The few times this winter I took my camera I put on my two bottle belt
and put the camera in the empty slot. I have a Canon Elpf and it's very
small

-DF
 
X-No-Archive: yes
Tony S. wrote:
> "Black Metal Martha" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > No running this week due to a pulled ligament while skiing last week.
> > It was my last afternoon in the Utah mountains. I had skied the steeps,
> > bumbs and nasties at Alta and Solitaire Friday and Saturday and decided
> > to take it easy Sunday at Brighton. So, I skied to the blues (medium
> > skilled tuns) when a boarder ran into me. Damn!!!
> >
> > Luckily, my knee will be back to normal in a couple of weeks, so it
> > wasn't terrible damage. It just might put an end to my ski season,
> > though and slows my running progress down by a few weeks. Oh well....
> >
> > Martha
>
> That really sucks. As a boarder might say... Bummer man. Are you going to
> sue the ripper?
>
> -Tony

Umm, no dude, the younger generation is too lazy to sue. Maybe you
should offer to sue on her behalf and take a cut of the moolah.

TBR
 
"Tom B." <[email protected]> wrote

> Using Google Earth, I mapped out a course that climbs 680 ft in 1.75
> mi, then descends slightly for 0.55 mi, then up another 525 ft in 1.5
> mi. The two ups are each about 7.5% grade. Total climbing is about
> 1200 ft in 3.6 mi (7.2 mi round trip). If I can work up to 3 up/down
> repeats on this hill without croaking, I'll be ready for anything
> Grandfather Mountain can throw at me. Too bad it's paved.

Excellent research. As for the paving thing, my experience is that it
doesn't matter on uphills since there's so much less shock. On downs, it's
another story...

Gentle advice from an Old Fart: stretch your calves if you're gonna ramp up
the hillwork. They can get tight, and that increases the pull on the
Achilles, and you know what that means. When I started doing my 10k climb
weeks a few years ago, I had all kinds of Achilles problems. I discovered
that just keeping calves loose with stretching a minute or two daily keeps
the demons away.
 
Dan Stumpus wrote:
> "Tom B." <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Excellent research. As for the paving thing, my experience is that it
> doesn't matter on uphills since there's so much less shock. On downs, it's
> another story...
>
> Gentle advice from an Old Fart: stretch your calves if you're gonna ramp up
> the hillwork. They can get tight, and that increases the pull on the
> Achilles, and you know what that means. When I started doing my 10k climb
> weeks a few years ago, I had all kinds of Achilles problems. I discovered
> that just keeping calves loose with stretching a minute or two daily keeps
> the demons away.

Good idea -- I'll do that. I remember having some calf strain when I
began adding lots of long hills into my long run buildup for
Charlottesville last year.

I'm going to think about a possible alternate course for the hillwork
also. There's another route that climbs up the same ridgeline, but
it's at least 20 minutes more driving to get there, so 1hr20 each way.
That's a long time in the car just for a damn run, but this alternate
route is paved for only the first half-mile, then about 4 miles of
glorious remote gravel road through forest land. Elevation gain is the
same 1200 ft or so.
 
Tom B. wrote:

> I'm going to think about a possible alternate course for the hillwork
> also. There's another route that climbs up the same ridgeline, but
> it's at least 20 minutes more driving to get there, so 1hr20 each way.
> That's a long time in the car just for a damn run, but this alternate
> route is paved for only the first half-mile, then about 4 miles of
> glorious remote gravel road through forest land. Elevation gain is
> the same 1200 ft or so.

I feel your pain. With a trail race looming a month away I feel the
pressure to make it to the real trails in my area. The closest one where I
can do a 20 mile loop is 40 miles away. The other one is the Appalachian
trail, which has a trailhead 70 miles away. The so called trails they've
built near me are nothing more than sidewalks in the woods.

--
Phil M.
 
"Tom B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dan Stumpus wrote:
> > "Tom B." <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > Excellent research. As for the paving thing, my experience is that it
> > doesn't matter on uphills since there's so much less shock. On downs,
it's
> > another story...
> >
> > Gentle advice from an Old Fart: stretch your calves if you're gonna
ramp up
> > the hillwork. They can get tight, and that increases the pull on the
> > Achilles, and you know what that means. When I started doing my 10k
climb
> > weeks a few years ago, I had all kinds of Achilles problems. I
discovered
> > that just keeping calves loose with stretching a minute or two daily
keeps
> > the demons away.
>
> Good idea -- I'll do that. I remember having some calf strain when I
> began adding lots of long hills into my long run buildup for
> Charlottesville last year.
>
> I'm going to think about a possible alternate course for the hillwork
> also. There's another route that climbs up the same ridgeline, but
> it's at least 20 minutes more driving to get there, so 1hr20 each way.
> That's a long time in the car just for a damn run, but this alternate
> route is paved for only the first half-mile, then about 4 miles of
> glorious remote gravel road through forest land. Elevation gain is the
> same 1200 ft or so.

You're barking up the right tree - it'll be worth the extra 20 mins. Just
don't get addicted to the trail part.

I'm lucky in that I can walk right out my door, and a 1/2 mile away there's
a series of paved roads that climb 600' in a little over a mile. I used to
run a 3.5 mile loop up this hill daily years ago. I also have a nice ~10
mile loop with the first 3.5 gradual then it climbs up and down about 1600'
for the rest, all on trails. I have other local choices with steeper and
lesser grades climbing to the same 600'-700' level, mostly on trails.
Unfortunately, for hilly ultras, or for the escarpment trail, these hills
aren't quite big enough, and for those I have to drive 2 hours or so.

-Tony
 
"Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom B. wrote:
>
> > I'm going to think about a possible alternate course for the hillwork
> > also. There's another route that climbs up the same ridgeline, but
> > it's at least 20 minutes more driving to get there, so 1hr20 each way.
> > That's a long time in the car just for a damn run, but this alternate
> > route is paved for only the first half-mile, then about 4 miles of
> > glorious remote gravel road through forest land. Elevation gain is
> > the same 1200 ft or so.
>
> I feel your pain. With a trail race looming a month away I feel the
> pressure to make it to the real trails in my area. The closest one where I
> can do a 20 mile loop is 40 miles away. The other one is the Appalachian
> trail, which has a trailhead 70 miles away. The so called trails they've
> built near me are nothing more than sidewalks in the woods.

I think you said the climb in your race is 5x1600'. That's not dissimilar to
the VT 50 miler, which has 8.5 to 9k. With a month to go how many hill
sessions do you think you can swing? Two maybe. Doug is definitely onto
something with his quad-busting loops. His hill is ~1400' and they were
doing it 4-5 times in a session during peak season. I can attest to the
success of this method, even though I only did it once (in addition to my
other hill work). Virtually *everyone* I saw and passed in the last 10 miles
of the VT 50 had completely shot quads and couldn't run downhill, and some
couldn't run flats either. Mine were also slowing me on downhills, but I was
still running. Doug was unique in his ability to both speed up *and* suffer
no quad issues as far as I could tell, attesting to his training method.
Don't beat yourself up too bad in the final weeks, but take note.

-Tony

> --
> Phil M.
 
"Tony S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pSnSf.4740$hc.3796@trndny03...
> I think you said the climb in your race is 5x1600'. That's not
> dissimilar to
> the VT 50 miler, which has 8.5 to 9k. With a month to go how many hill
> sessions do you think you can swing? Two maybe. Doug is definitely
> onto
> something with his quad-busting loops. His hill is ~1400' and they
> were
> doing it 4-5 times in a session during peak season. I can attest to
> the
> success of this method, even though I only did it once (in addition to
> my
> other hill work). Virtually *everyone* I saw and passed in the last 10
> miles
> of the VT 50 had completely shot quads and couldn't run downhill, and
> some
> couldn't run flats either. Mine were also slowing me on downhills, but
> I was
> still running. Doug was unique in his ability to both speed up *and*
> suffer
> no quad issues as far as I could tell, attesting to his training
> method.

I use just the 1,400 for VT50 because it's specific to the race. I had
some discomfort when I stopped and a little the next day or so. By three
days I feel better but I still take it easy for a week. I know there are
small tears that need to recover. The fact that Jacque also had no quad
problems and scooted along quit well for her first 50 tells me the
training worked for her and Rachel for her 50k. She worked up to 4 laps
for her shorter race. The only reason I finished in front of Jacque is
my experience with the course, my 11th. I know next year I'll be
looking at her elbows and cute ass. ;)

When I train for the VT100 I start in the village and do laps over the
entire 5 mile 2,500 foot. The 100 has much longer climbs and obviously
longer downs and why I do the whole hill in training. Any quad
discomfort comes at about 90 miles. Most people have turned to stone
about 70 miles and walk 90% of last 30 miles(that makes a long time on
your feet). I work up to 4 laps and 10k in about 10 hours. By race day
I'm ready. I always wonder how people who come from flat areas can get
to the finish line under the 30 hour cut-off.

I sent in my app for the VT100 this year. If your looking for some
Escarpment training let me know. There will be at least one other doing
some of the laps getting ready for the Escarpment after I rest a few
weeks after Bull Run. I'm also going back for the 50 in Sept and you
can come and do a few runs to get ready. Do a few more training runs
and start out a little slower an you too can beat the old man before he
collects his first Social Security check. ;)

You are correct, the quads are the first thing to go in a race when ill
prepared. This is why I set up my training around elevation and hours
and miles is secondary. I average 50 miles a week for 50k to 50 miles
and 60 for a 100. Many are doing mega miles for a marathon.

Dan does the elevation, more miles and speed and why he finishes in the
top 10. He's also a kid. Wait till menopause hits him. :)

-DF
 
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