Trent Dalton's article in last Saturday's CM Q Weekend Magazine

[Donga]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on 31 Oct 2006 11:17:36 -0800
> Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > TimC wrote:
> >> Implying anyone is **** because they can't ride 24km/h after a few
> >> months is s surefire way of making them tell you to ******** as they
> >> get back into their car.
> >
> > Naaaah, if they are that thin-skinned, they are just looking for an
> > excuse. They either want to ride for good reasons, or they don't.
>
> So, you want people to learn to push through the first difficulties
> and ride a bike, or you want them to say "bike riders are pricks and
> full of themselves"?
>
> Zebee

Mmm, you've lost me.

 

[Tamyka Bell]

Bleve wrote:
>
> Tamyka Bell wrote:
> > Duracell Bunny wrote:
> > >
> > > asterope wrote:
> > > > Tamyka Bell Wrote:
> > > >> LotteBum wrote:
> > > >>> Pain, Trains & Automobiles
> > > >>>
> > > >>> By: -Trent Dalton-
> > > >> That was awesome. Long, but awesome. Shame he's too soft to
> > > >> keep riding...
> > > >>
> > > >> T
> > > > You know, if he just gave it a good 2 weeks of commuting 32kms a day,
> > > > it wouldnt even take him 80 minutes IN TOTAL per day of travel time.
> > > >
> > > > a good article... i hope he does go through with buying himself a
> > > > pushie.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I remember when I started riding again in March this year - a little 12km ride
> > > and I was worn out. Did 18km the next day though, and soon it stopped hurting.
> > >
> > > I must say a regular 16km commute, as long as you have change facilities, would
> > > be quite pleasant if you can pick your travel times
> >
> > That's what I've got! But 16km just feels too short. I mean,
> > is it really worth breaking a sweat for such a short ride?
>
> 16km is mighty hard if you do it in E3 or higher. Intervals Tam ...

I ride Lytton Rd. With the trucks. Intervals or bust, baby!
(Although the second half of the commute is an easy
cruise...)

T

 

[BT Humble]

LotteBum wrote:
> Did anyone read this?
>
> Basically, he did a comparison between commuting by train, bus, car and
> bike in Brisbane. I think he did a brilliant job and I've e-mailed him
> thanking him for the good press. He reckons he's going to buy a bike
> soon.
>
> I'm trying to find a transcript - will post once I have it.

I thought it was pretty good, a shame that he seemed so discouraged due
to his lack of fitness though. Trying to do a 17km commute starting
fom nothing can be pretty daunting.

I sent him a congratulations-and-encouragement e-mail, here's hoping he
perseveres with it and writes a "cycling to work and loving it (well,
the commute anyway)" article in a few months.


BTH

 

[Tamyka Bell]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:05:29 +1100
> asterope <[email protected]> wrote:
> > You know, if he just gave it a good 2 weeks of commuting 32kms a day,
> > it wouldnt even take him 80 minutes IN TOTAL per day of travel time.
>
> yes it would.
>
> It takes a lot longer than that to get the fitness. YOu get better
> and it's easier, but it takes months not weeks to drastically drop the
> times.
>
> 32km is a fair way. No idea if it's got much in the way of hills, i
> do 20 and I'm better than I was but halve the time? no way.

It's only 16km each way. He could start out doing the
two-way commute over two days. That's how I started out (but
mine was 26km, quite hilly and at the time I hadn't trained
for 6 months and had only been cycling for 1 year before
that break).

He needs to toughen up. No excuse for 80 min! No excuse for
hurting after 2km! He has identified that he's unfit and
needs to work on it, and now he has the perfect opportunity.

Tam

 

[Tamyka Bell]

DaveB wrote:
>
> Bleve wrote:
> > 16km is mighty hard if you do it in E3 or higher. Intervals Tam ...
> >
>
> Gasp, my commute is 16km and I had a last minute meeting reschedule that
> gave me almost enough time to ride home and dial in from home. But that
> almost was if I absolutely hammered myself all the way home. Got home
> with one minute to spare, dialled in, and discovered it was to be
> rescheduled again. 16km was definitely not too short, but then again Tam
> runs further than my long ride.
>
> DaveB

That's nothing to be ashamed of dude - the guys in my
cycling club rarely do 100 miles!

T

 

[Tamyka Bell]

Donga wrote:
>
> Patrick Keogh wrote:
> > Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> >
> > >> It takes a lot longer than that to get the fitness. YOu get better
> > >> and it's easier, but it takes months not weeks to drastically drop the
> > >> times.
> > >>
> >
> > Yes but ... 16Km in 80 minutes is 12Kph. I'm in my fifties, overweight,
> > I ride on average less than once a week, probably around 1500KM per
> > year, and I don't get any other meaningful exercise, but if I averaged
> > less than 24Kph on a slightly up and down city route with a mix of cycle
> > path, roads with traffic lights etc. I'd go see a doctor.
> >
> > I'm sorry I don't know Trent Dalton, but unless he looks like Russ Hinze
> > he can surely do better than 12Kph.
>
> Did he mention what bike he used, and its condition?

Nope just that he hired a bike...

 

[Tamyka Bell]

Vincent Patrick wrote:
>
> TimC wrote:
>
> > On 2006-10-31, Bleve (aka Bruce)
> > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> >>
> >> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> >>> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:05:29 +1100
> >>> asterope <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> > You know, if he just gave it a good 2 weeks of commuting 32kms a day,
> >>> > it wouldnt even take him 80 minutes IN TOTAL per day of travel time.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> yes it would.
> >>>
> >>> It takes a lot longer than that to get the fitness. YOu get better
> >>> and it's easier, but it takes months not weeks to drastically drop the
> >>> times.
> >>>
> >>> 32km is a fair way. No idea if it's got much in the way of hills, i
> >>> do 20 and I'm better than I was but halve the time? no way.
> >>
> >> Maybe if he wasn't on some great heavy 'bent?
> >> An average roady doing a couple of rides a week cruises at 25-30km/h on
> >> the flat after a couple of months of riding.
> >
> > Yeah, but what commutes are truly flat?
> >
> > I considered it a very good day in Melbourne to get an average of
> > 30km/h -- I only did it about 3 times (vs my 41km/h average a week or
> > two ago, but I wuz cheatin').
> >
> > 12km/h is definitely slow for a first ride, but Patrick is implying
> > that anyone should be able to do 24km/h. I was as almost as fit as I
> > ever was when I had my orange and purple monstrosity. On my mildly up
> > and down route to Hawthorn from Chadstone, I'd usually only be
> > averaging around 24km/h -- and that was with the twice daily 10km/h,
> > every day of the working year.
> >
> > Implying anyone is **** because they can't ride 24km/h after a few
> > months is s surefire way of making them tell you to ******** as they
> > get back into their car.
>
> My commuting experience is like yours, and probably something like Zebee's
> would have been if she were on a road bike. When I first started my 28 km
> per day commuting, my average speed was around 18-20 km/hr. Now after 18
> months I expect around 24-26 km/hr (30 km/hr is absolute tops), but if I'm
> pushing into a good easterly wind, my average speed is down to 21 km/hr.
>
> It is interesting the number of people who have had such similar
> experiences, really. Even the expression that it is hardly worth getting
> togged up for less than a 10 km trip fits with what I have found.
>
> And, while people have been saying that bicycles are great for short trips,
> I actually find it is more convenient to drive the car for very short
> trips. (Now THAT is going to draw some flack!)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Vince

I agree that a bike can be annoying for short trips if you
have to make sure you've got a means to lock it and so on.
For very short trips to purchase lots of groceries etc, I
have my shopping bike which has all that stuff attached that
I don't normally need. If I'm not buying stuff, I prefer to
walk. I really hate cars now. Since getting rid of mine, I
get car sick as soon as I'm in one.

Tam

 

[Bleve]

Vincent Patrick wrote:

> TimC wrote:
>
> > On 2006-10-31, Bleve (aka Bruce)
> > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> >>
> >> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> >>> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:05:29 +1100
> >>> asterope <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> > You know, if he just gave it a good 2 weeks of commuting 32kms a day,
> >>> > it wouldnt even take him 80 minutes IN TOTAL per day of travel time.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> yes it would.
> >>>
> >>> It takes a lot longer than that to get the fitness. YOu get better
> >>> and it's easier, but it takes months not weeks to drastically drop the
> >>> times.
> >>>
> >>> 32km is a fair way. No idea if it's got much in the way of hills, i
> >>> do 20 and I'm better than I was but halve the time? no way.
> >>
> >> Maybe if he wasn't on some great heavy 'bent?
> >> An average roady doing a couple of rides a week cruises at 25-30km/h on
> >> the flat after a couple of months of riding.
> >
> > Yeah, but what commutes are truly flat?
> >
> > I considered it a very good day in Melbourne to get an average of
> > 30km/h -- I only did it about 3 times (vs my 41km/h average a week or
> > two ago, but I wuz cheatin').
> >
> > 12km/h is definitely slow for a first ride, but Patrick is implying
> > that anyone should be able to do 24km/h. I was as almost as fit as I
> > ever was when I had my orange and purple monstrosity. On my mildly up
> > and down route to Hawthorn from Chadstone, I'd usually only be
> > averaging around 24km/h -- and that was with the twice daily 10km/h,
> > every day of the working year.
> >
> > Implying anyone is **** because they can't ride 24km/h after a few
> > months is s surefire way of making them tell you to ******** as they
> > get back into their car.
>
> My commuting experience is like yours, and probably something like Zebee's
> would have been if she were on a road bike. When I first started my 28 km
> per day commuting, my average speed was around 18-20 km/hr. Now after 18
> months I expect around 24-26 km/hr (30 km/hr is absolute tops), but if I'm
> pushing into a good easterly wind, my average speed is down to 21 km/hr.

My road average is around 22-25km/h (end to end). That's quite normal.
My commute is quite hilly. It takes me about 48-50 mins to get to
Southbank from Vermont
(~22km), and about 1:05-1:10 to get home (back up the big hill!).

> It is interesting the number of people who have had such similar
> experiences, really. Even the expression that it is hardly worth getting
> togged up for less than a 10 km trip fits with what I have found.
>
> And, while people have been saying that bicycles are great for short trips,
> I actually find it is more convenient to drive the car for very short
> trips. (Now THAT is going to draw some flack!)

Not necessarily flak, more some suggestions. I now have an old sh1tter
MTB that I use to go to the local stupormarket. I got it for free, I
don't use cleats, knicks etc to ride it. Just jump on and tootle to
the shops, chain it up out the front (no-one's going to nick it!), fill
my backpack, and tootle the 2km back home again.

 

[Bleve]

Tamyka Bell wrote:

> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> >
> > In aus.bicycle on Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:05:29 +1100
> > asterope <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > You know, if he just gave it a good 2 weeks of commuting 32kms a day,
> > > it wouldnt even take him 80 minutes IN TOTAL per day of travel time.
> >
> > yes it would.
> >
> > It takes a lot longer than that to get the fitness. YOu get better
> > and it's easier, but it takes months not weeks to drastically drop the
> > times.
> >
> > 32km is a fair way. No idea if it's got much in the way of hills, i
> > do 20 and I'm better than I was but halve the time? no way.
>
> It's only 16km each way. He could start out doing the
> two-way commute over two days. That's how I started out (but
> mine was 26km, quite hilly and at the time I hadn't trained
> for 6 months and had only been cycling for 1 year before
> that break).

That's how I started too. It works!

 

[Bleve]

blah wrote:

> Resound wrote:
> > > I remember when I started riding again in March this year - a little 12km
> > > ride
> > > and I was worn out. Did 18km the next day though, and soon it stopped
> > > hurting.
> > >
> > > I must say a regular 16km commute, as long as you have change facilities,
> > > would be quite pleasant if you can pick your travel times
> > >
> > Speaking as someone who used to have an 18km commute, it's a treat. My
> > current commute which is slightly under 8km each way is far too short.
>
> My commute is 7 kay if I go straight to work. I've sussed a route that
> takes 27 instead. This includes about four or five laps of the Kew
> Crits course (about a kay around) at the end so I can cut it off if
> running late or extend a little if early. Why 27? That was how far it
> was going from Box Hill to Kew (Melb) via the Boullie when I lived
> there last year. Felt about right to keep it that length, as getting
> all of the gear together (shirts at work, etc) is a pain if the ride's
> not 'worth it'.

I can do a 100km commute, if I go via Frankston

 

[blah]

Bleve wrote:

> > My commute is 7 kay if I go straight to work. I've sussed a route that
> > takes 27 instead. This includes about four or five laps of the Kew
> > Crits course (about a kay around) at the end so I can cut it off if
> > running late or extend a little if early. Why 27? That was how far it
> > was going from Box Hill to Kew (Melb) via the Boullie when I lived
> > there last year. Felt about right to keep it that length, as getting
> > all of the gear together (shirts at work, etc) is a pain if the ride's
> > not 'worth it'.
>
> I can do a 100km commute, if I go via Frankston

Yeh, that was my point, really. Why go straight to work if you have the
time not to? I work on using the hour that I use r*nning and then
getting a ride in to work with the missus in her car when I don't ride
the bike.

 

[Tamyka Bell]

Bleve wrote:
>
> Tamyka Bell wrote:
>
> > Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> > >
> > > In aus.bicycle on Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:05:29 +1100
> > > asterope <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > You know, if he just gave it a good 2 weeks of commuting 32kms a day,
> > > > it wouldnt even take him 80 minutes IN TOTAL per day of travel time.
> > >
> > > yes it would.
> > >
> > > It takes a lot longer than that to get the fitness. YOu get better
> > > and it's easier, but it takes months not weeks to drastically drop the
> > > times.
> > >
> > > 32km is a fair way. No idea if it's got much in the way of hills, i
> > > do 20 and I'm better than I was but halve the time? no way.
> >
> > It's only 16km each way. He could start out doing the
> > two-way commute over two days. That's how I started out (but
> > mine was 26km, quite hilly and at the time I hadn't trained
> > for 6 months and had only been cycling for 1 year before
> > that break).
>
> That's how I started too. It works!

We're still going!

Tam*feels like she is part of the club. not sure which club
though.*

 

[BT Humble]

Tamyka Bell wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> > 32km is a fair way. No idea if it's got much in the way of hills, i
> > do 20 and I'm better than I was but halve the time? no way.
>
> It's only 16km each way. He could start out doing the
> two-way commute over two days. That's how I started out (but
> mine was 26km, quite hilly and at the time I hadn't trained
> for 6 months and had only been cycling for 1 year before
> that break).
>
> He needs to toughen up. No excuse for 80 min! No excuse for
> hurting after 2km! He has identified that he's unfit and
> needs to work on it, and now he has the perfect opportunity.

Which is more likely to work to get this bloke riding to work, a bit of
friendly encouragement or a serve of drill-sergeant-style ridicule?

(And anyone in his situation getting told to "toughen up" will view it
as the latter, I assure you!)


BTH

 

[Tamyka Bell]

BT Humble wrote:
>
> Tamyka Bell wrote:
> > Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> > > 32km is a fair way. No idea if it's got much in the way of hills, i
> > > do 20 and I'm better than I was but halve the time? no way.
> >
> > It's only 16km each way. He could start out doing the
> > two-way commute over two days. That's how I started out (but
> > mine was 26km, quite hilly and at the time I hadn't trained
> > for 6 months and had only been cycling for 1 year before
> > that break).
> >
> > He needs to toughen up. No excuse for 80 min! No excuse for
> > hurting after 2km! He has identified that he's unfit and
> > needs to work on it, and now he has the perfect opportunity.
>
> Which is more likely to work to get this bloke riding to work, a bit of
> friendly encouragement or a serve of drill-sergeant-style ridicule?
>
> (And anyone in his situation getting told to "toughen up" will view it
> as the latter, I assure you!)

Really? Have we all gone so soft? Whatever happened to being
inspired to do things, not because they were easy, but
because they were a challenge? Whatever happened to being
inspired by other people's stories, "Johnno down in IT used
to be a fat lazy fscker but now he commutes 16km each way
each day..." Back in May I ran 80km with a man who had
weighed over 120kg a year or so earlier when he took up
running.

What happened to doing something just because someone else
said you couldn't do it, when you hinted you might try? In
May I met several runners who have gone out and finished the
50km footrace (albeit slowly and painfully) because one of
their other mates said they couldn't. They dared each other
into it... "Well I could run 5km..." "I could run 10km..."
"I could run 20km..." "I could run a marathon..." "I could
run more than a marathon..." "Well then buddy, back it up,
there's a 50km race on next weekend..."

Funny, I had this image of men being generally more
competitive than women... there is certainly plenty of psych
research that says so...

Encouragement takes many forms. Personally, I think he'd be
more likely to get back on the bike if Lotte and I had
screamed past him on his commute.

T

 

[Asterope]

In <[email protected]> Tamyka Bell wrote:
<snippy>

> Really? Have we all gone so soft? Whatever happened to being
> inspired to do things, not because they were easy, but
> because they were a challenge? Whatever happened to being
> inspired by other people's stories, "Johnno down in IT used
> to be a fat lazy fscker but now he commutes 16km each way
> each day..." Back in May I ran 80km with a man who had
> weighed over 120kg a year or so earlier when he took up
> running.
>
> What happened to doing something just because someone else
> said you couldn't do it, when you hinted you might try? In
> May I met several runners who have gone out and finished the
> 50km footrace (albeit slowly and painfully) because one of
> their other mates said they couldn't. They dared each other
> into it... "Well I could run 5km..." "I could run 10km..."
> "I could run 20km..." "I could run a marathon..." "I could
> run more than a marathon..." "Well then buddy, back it up,
> there's a 50km race on next weekend..."
>
> Funny, I had this image of men being generally more
> competitive than women... there is certainly plenty of psych
> research that says so...
>
> Encouragement takes many forms. Personally, I think he'd be
> more likely to get back on the bike if Lotte and I had
> screamed past him on his commute.
>
> T
>

Thats it ladies... time to get your low-cut jerseys out... were going to
give this guy something to get motivated about!

of course, its going to work just like every other addictive substance...
you let them try it out, give them a taste for it to keep doing it, get
them hooked and then *BAM!!* back to the normal non-sexy jerseys by
that time he'll be so used to commuting to work and back on a bike he
will feel dreadful if he doesnt get out on the bike, so will need to go
for a ride just to feel better... sexy tops or no sexy tops

 

[TimC]

On 2006-11-01, Tamyka Bell (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> It's only 16km each way. He could start out doing the
> two-way commute over two days. That's how I started out (but
> mine was 26km, quite hilly and at the time I hadn't trained
> for 6 months and had only been cycling for 1 year before
> that break).

The only reason I'm not riding up and back everyday (apart from the
summers and springs being darned warm out here; and the weather keeps
*looking* threatening without ever actually dumping (stupid drought)),
is because I really don't want to get up an hour earlier. Stupid
8:00am starting time with a 1.5 hour commute (including with showers).

--
TimC
"Cycling is like a church - many attend, but few understand." -- Jim Burlant

 

[TimC]

On 2006-11-01, Tamyka Bell (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Donga wrote:
>> Did he mention what bike he used, and its condition?
>
> Nope just that he hired a bike...

With the implications that has as to the state and type of the bike.

I was wondering about the ability to hire knicks though. Ick!

--
TimC
"Warning: Do not look into laser with remaining eye" -- a physics experiment
"Press emergency laser shutdown button with remaining hand" -- J.D.Baldwin@ASR

 

[Tamyka Bell]

TimC wrote:
>
> On 2006-11-01, Tamyka Bell (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > Donga wrote:
> >> Did he mention what bike he used, and its condition?
> >
> > Nope just that he hired a bike...
>
> With the implications that has as to the state and type of the bike.
>
> I was wondering about the ability to hire knicks though. Ick!

My boyfriend has offered me a pair of Nalini bibknicks that
he's worn a few times but finds them too small... and
they're the same size as my Nalini ones. Crotch and
sweaty-gross-cycling-crotch are two totally different
things. They've been soaking in Canesten laundry liquid
(anti bac and anti fungal) for about four days now, awaiting
the final decision...

T

 

[Bleve]

Tamyka Bell wrote:

> BT Humble wrote:
> >
> > Tamyka Bell wrote:
> > > Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> > > > 32km is a fair way. No idea if it's got much in the way of hills, i
> > > > do 20 and I'm better than I was but halve the time? no way.
> > >
> > > It's only 16km each way. He could start out doing the
> > > two-way commute over two days. That's how I started out (but
> > > mine was 26km, quite hilly and at the time I hadn't trained
> > > for 6 months and had only been cycling for 1 year before
> > > that break).
> > >
> > > He needs to toughen up. No excuse for 80 min! No excuse for
> > > hurting after 2km! He has identified that he's unfit and
> > > needs to work on it, and now he has the perfect opportunity.
> >
> > Which is more likely to work to get this bloke riding to work, a bit of
> > friendly encouragement or a serve of drill-sergeant-style ridicule?
> >
> > (And anyone in his situation getting told to "toughen up" will view it
> > as the latter, I assure you!)
>
> Really? Have we all gone so soft? Whatever happened to being
> inspired to do things, not because they were easy, but
> because they were a challenge? Whatever happened to being
> inspired by other people's stories, "Johnno down in IT used
> to be a fat lazy fscker but now he commutes 16km each way
> each day..." Back in May I ran 80km with a man who had
> weighed over 120kg a year or so earlier when he took up
> running.

Your sample is a self-selected group of people who are a minority, I
would contend.

 

[ghostgum]

The only reason I'm not riding up and back everyday...
is because I really don't want to get up an hour earlier.

Have you figured out how to take your bike up on the observatory bus?