Troll: Is it time to ask about O'grady?

[lazysegall]

So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be taking the same stuff.

 

[Chris]

"lazysegall" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> taking the same stuff.

Not when you know the whole story. He was gaining results as expected (in a
normal trajectory) and then had a few health problems. I think he has
surgery a few years back had to rebuild a bit from that setback. In the
modern era of cycling it generally takes longer to mature to full strength
and ability to exploit that strength. Take a look at the average age of the
winners of WC and classics and you will see that O'grady is not really out
of the norm. Then again, some would claim that it is the drug use that is
behind this trend of older winners. In the end there is no more or less
evidence against him than there is against any other athlete that stays out
of trouble.

>
> --
> lazysegall
>

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 04:44:53 +1000, lazysegall
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
>Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
>Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
>least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
>troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
>tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
>taking the same stuff.

I really don't think you can spot drug use by performance. There are
do many diverse factors that go into riding well.

Also, O'Grady was always close to a big win. His climbing really came
along recently, but he's been really good for quite awhile.

JT

 

[TritonRider]

>From: John Forrest Tomlinson [email protected]

>Also, O'Grady was always close to a big win. His climbing really came
>along recently, but he's been really good for quite awhile.
>
>JT
>
>

I'm hoping that he has at least a couple of Zabel like years. He seems a
decent sort, and he's not McWhiner.
Bill C

 

[Boyd Speerschneider]

lazysegall <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> taking the same stuff.
>
>

So sad... guilt by association.

- Boyd "not like he'd ever worn the yellow or green jersey" S.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 04:44:53 +1000, lazysegall
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> >Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> >Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> >least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> >troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> >tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> >taking the same stuff.
>
> I really don't think you can spot drug use by performance. There are
> do many diverse factors that go into riding well.
>
> Also, O'Grady was always close to a big win. His climbing really came
> along recently, but he's been really good for quite awhile.

I wonder if it occurs to people that because they're catching so many dopers
that a lot of people have stopped and those "almost" riders who weren't
doping now have the advantage?

 

[lazysegall]

lazysegall <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> taking the same stuff.
>
>

So sad... guilt by association.

- Boyd "not like he'd ever worn the yellow or green jersey" S.

Guilt and suspicion are two very different things. Any investigation starts with suspicion. I think that O'grady's association merits some question of doping, but I am not saying that he is a doper. I only thought that for all the threads about doping he might be a reasonbale guy to ask about.

 

[Sonarrat]

in article [email protected], lazysegall at
[email protected] wrote on 8/6/04 11:44 AM:

> So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> taking the same stuff.

If Stuart O'Grady is on drugs right now, he may be the dumbest man alive.

-Sonarrat.

 

[Richard Adams]

Chris wrote:

> "lazysegall" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>
>>So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
>>Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
>>Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
>>least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
>>troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
>>tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
>>taking the same stuff.
>
>
> Not when you know the whole story. He was gaining results as expected (in a
> normal trajectory) and then had a few health problems. I think he has
> surgery a few years back had to rebuild a bit from that setback. In the
> modern era of cycling it generally takes longer to mature to full strength
> and ability to exploit that strength. Take a look at the average age of the
> winners of WC and classics and you will see that O'grady is not really out
> of the norm. Then again, some would claim that it is the drug use that is
> behind this trend of older winners. In the end there is no more or less
> evidence against him than there is against any other athlete that stays out
> of trouble.

IIRC a couple years ago O'Grady got mugged in his home away from home,
Toulouse. A fairly hard whack on the head with a hard object left him
in bad shape for a while. I think he's also had problems with irregular
high heart rate, hitting 235 during a TdF stage and a knee problem, too.
This looked like it was going to be a good year, as much of his health
problems have stayed behind him and he's developed good form. The
Gaumont/Vasseur/Millar/Lelli carnival haven't been helpful.


>
>>--
>>lazysegall
>>
>
>
>

 

[Kenny]

lazysegall <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> taking the same stuff.

I'm glad someone asks the right questions

Kenny

 

[crit pro]

lazysegall <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> taking the same stuff.


These questions needed to be asked.

crit pro

 

[Richard Adams]

lazysegall <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Boyd Speerschneider Wrote:
> > lazysegall <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
> > >
> > > So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> > > Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> > > Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> > > least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be
> a
> > > troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> > > tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would
> be
> > > taking the same stuff.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > So sad... guilt by association.
> >
> > - Boyd "not like he'd ever worn the yellow or green jersey" S.
> Guilt and suspicion are two very different things. Any investigation
> starts with suspicion. I think that O'grady's association merits some
> question of doping, but I am not saying that he is a doper. I only
> thought that for all the threads about doping he might be a reasonbale
> guy to ask about.


He rode for Credit Agricole over the last few seasons and was signed
to Cofidis for 2004. Millar, Lelli and Gaumont's shenanigans precede
Stuey's arrival. Keep in mind Cofidis' strategy to stay at a high
level has been to sign riders who have performed well and have mucho
UCI points.

 

[Kyle Legate]

"Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BD39AA95.76F5%[email protected]...
> in article [email protected], lazysegall at
> [email protected] wrote on 8/6/04 11:44 AM:
>
> > So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> > Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> > Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> > least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> > troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> > tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> > taking the same stuff.
>
> If Stuart O'Grady is on drugs right now, he may be the dumbest man alive.
>
I believe that title falls to Oscar Camenzind.

 

[Benjamin Weiner]

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 04:44:53 +1000, lazysegall
> <[email protected]> wrote:

> >So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> >Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> >Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> >least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> >troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> >tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> >taking the same stuff.
>
> I really don't think you can spot drug use by performance. There are
> do many diverse factors that go into riding well.
>
> Also, O'Grady was always close to a big win. His climbing really came
> along recently, but he's been really good for quite awhile.

Agree. O'Grady's career wasn't "winding down" at all. Rather he was
evolving from a not-quite-the-top pack sprinter into a guy who could be
in at the end of long hard World-Cup-distance races. Several other
people have done that (Museeuw, Jalabert). Think this became clear when
O'Grady got 3rd in Flanders a year and a half ago. Which was before
Cofidis, etc.

 

[crit pro]

[email protected] (crit pro) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> lazysegall <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> > Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> > Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> > least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> > troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> > tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> > taking the same stuff.
>
>
> These questions needed to be asked.
>
> crit pro


bombs the olympic road race.
goes to some 'training camp in europe'
returns to Games to win gold in madison.
which is an event that he hadn't really trained for.
hhhmmmm.

 

[David Covey]

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>
> I really don't think you can spot drug use by performance. There are
> do many diverse factors that go into riding well.

The sad truth about pro cycling - and probably always has been -
is that you have to assume somebody IS taking drugs until they get
caught or own up. Then you KNOW. I've followed pro cycling since I
was a kid - used to buy Miroir du Cyclisme in the early 60s jeez I
wish I still had them - and when I think back at how many of the big
stars from then died young. It's too much like coincidence.

Of course, if everybody is then it makes it pointless. Which
fits pretty well with how humans run things

Cheers

David

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 26 Aug 2004 05:40:10 -0700, [email protected] (David Covey)
wrote:

>John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>
>> I really don't think you can spot drug use by performance. There are
>> do many diverse factors that go into riding well.
>
> The sad truth about pro cycling - and probably always has been -
>is that you have to assume somebody IS taking drugs until they get
>caught or own up. Then you KNOW.

Sad but largely on track.

I think though in pro sport that people who actually push for more out
of competiton testing, more neutral testing by people outside the
sport, etc, are much more likely to be clean. Not so many people are
such blatant hypocrites as to advocate that stuff while doping --
whereas evading or lying is easier.

Becky Scott the skier comes to mind. I am convinced she is clean. I
also believe in cycling that Mottet and Hampsten were clean due to
what they have said and what people who know doping have said.

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[patch70]

bombs the olympic road race.
goes to some 'training camp in europe'
returns to Games to win gold in madison.
which is an event that he hadn't really trained for.
hhhmmmm.

Most of the big riders bombed the olympic road race (apart from Bettini). It was ~40 degrees (celsius).
Just before this, he'd won the HEW Classic as well as his great tour performance, so clearly he was in form. You must be pretty stupid if you think he could dope himself up to a gold in a week.
He has ridden track most of his cycling life and so he is more than familiar with the madison.
The guy is a very talented, very hard working rider who is one of the most down to earth people you could meet. I am convinced that he is not a doper.
Are you a tad jealous perhaps crit pro?

 

[mocka58]

[email protected] (crit pro) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> lazysegall <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > So O'grady's career is winding down and then he joins doping outfit
> > Confidis. All of a sudden he wins 2 Dauphine Stages, TDF stage, Hew
> > Classic. Now we learn that Massimiliano Lelli was also doping or at
> > least giving people EPO along with millar and Guamont. I hate to be a
> > troll, but this looks oddly suspicious. Of course O'grady hasn't
> > tested positive, but neither did Millar and presumably the two would be
> > taking the same stuff.
>
>
> These questions needed to be asked.
>
> crit pro


bombs the olympic road race.
goes to some 'training camp in europe'
returns to Games to win gold in madison.
which is an event that he hadn't really trained for.
hhhmmmm.

He didn't "bomb" the Olympic road race. He finished in the pack after a respectable ride. He had won the HEW Classic the weekend before so he was in pretty good shape. And I suggest that you research his career a little more thoroughly. He was a world class track rider befor he ever raced a European road season. Someone with his track racing knowledge and experience could concievably adapt to madison racing in a short period.

 

[Donald Munro]

crit pro wrote:
>> bombs the olympic road race.
>> goes to some 'training camp in europe'
>> returns to Games to win gold in madison.
>> which is an event that he hadn't really trained for.
>> hhhmmmm.

> He didn't "bomb" the Olympic road race. He finished in the pack after
> a respectable ride. He had won the HEW Classic the weekend before so he
> was in pretty good shape. And I suggest that you research his career a
> little more thoroughly. He was a world class track rider befor he ever
> raced a European road season. Someone with his track racing knowledge
> and experience could concievably adapt to madison racing in a short
> period.

Mr. pro thinks everybody that's better than him must be doing drugs.