Vino - TdF 2006



Ricardo29

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Jan 16, 2006
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gday all.
pls advise thoughts on Vino's chances this year.
i believe he was the outstanding rider of TdF 05. smashed em to Briancon after struggling the day before...winning that final stage....very unlucky over the years to have those 20-60kms downhill runs to the finish (Gap 03) after summits.
with a team focused on him, instead of wasting time and effort on old fat guts from TMobile...surely he has a big big chance. Not that Vino needs a team, theyre really only there to pay him, feed him, massage him and sleep him...but surely he's got to give Basso a big run ??
 
Ricardo29 said:
with a team focused on him, instead of wasting time and effort on old fat guts from TMobile...
old fat guts? i have no idea who you mean!

its a wide open field this year...but i think old fat guts will win.
 
Ricardo29 said:
very unlucky over the years to have those 20-60kms downhill runs to the finish (Gap 03) after summits.
with a team focused on him, instead of wasting time and effort on old fat guts from TMobile...surely he has a big big chance. Not that Vino needs a team, theyre really only there to pay him, feed him, massage him and sleep him...but surely he's got to give Basso a big run ??
I don't know what race you were watching, but I didnt see Vino do much for Jan in 2005's tour. All he seemed to do was make eye catching breaks. He seemed to br riding last year to win a switch to a new team

And as far as his chances of winning go, he will always have a REAL bad day in the mountains, hence the reason Jan was always more supported by the team. Vino - great rider, but no tour winner
 
if u want to win, u have to do something, anything.

havent seen the big fella do a whole lot except plod away trying to hold lenny's wheel for 7 yrs.
 
I think Vino's a little overrated when it comes to the TdF. Sure, he always makes top 10 but I don't think he has what it takes to win a race such as the TdF. There are a multitude of cyclists that are better than him, including 'old fat guts'. Attacking every opportunity you get isn't a very good strategy for a three week race.
 
Ricardo29 said:
gday all.
pls advise thoughts on Vino's chances this year.
i believe he was the outstanding rider of TdF 05. smashed em to Briancon after struggling the day before...winning that final stage....very unlucky over the years to have those 20-60kms downhill runs to the finish (Gap 03) after summits.
with a team focused on him, instead of wasting time and effort on old fat guts from TMobile...surely he has a big big chance. Not that Vino needs a team, theyre really only there to pay him, feed him, massage him and sleep him...but surely he's got to give Basso a big run ??
I think Vino will let us see some great attacks, BUT he won`t win the Tour. I guess he will be in the top ten again and win one or more stages.
 
I don't think Vino can win the yellow jersey. Bruyneel has also made that observation. Vino only won his first stage in the TdF 05 because he had lost so much time prior to that, that he was permitted by Discovery to go into the break. Vino only won the final stage on the Champs Elysees and came 5th because the race organizers were unclear about the bonus seconds and because Gerolsteiner is badly directed.

If all goes well, Vino could probably have a chance to reach the third step of the podium again.
 
Ricardo29 said:
if u want to win, u have to do something, anything.

havent seen the big fella do a whole lot except plod away trying to hold lenny's wheel for 7 yrs.
Depends what you call plodding.Plodding onto a podium position. Which isnt too bad. Maybe not fulfilling his potential like Vino, but certainly his results in tours have been better

Its simple - you look like a plodder because it was impossible to get away from Lance on mountain stages, except if he wasnt too worried about you. Hence Vino's 2 spectacular breaks in 2005 due to not being a threat.

On the other hand, im sure if Jan was down by 15 minutes he could have got a stage win or two on a long break.

Was it 2003 (?), Jan, with Bianchi and NO support, took second place, and Vino with the mighty T Mobile backing managed to finsh only 3-4 mins back.
 
Ricardo29 said:
gday all.
pls advise thoughts on Vino's chances this year.
i believe he was the outstanding rider of TdF 05. smashed em to Briancon after struggling the day before...winning that final stage....very unlucky over the years to have those 20-60kms downhill runs to the finish (Gap 03) after summits.
with a team focused on him, instead of wasting time and effort on old fat guts from TMobile...surely he has a big big chance. Not that Vino needs a team, theyre really only there to pay him, feed him, massage him and sleep him...but surely he's got to give Basso a big run ??

Vino won't win the TDF.
He's a great rider - and he won two very special stages in the 2005 TDF.
He had a superb TDF in 2003 too

I don't think that Vino has the ability to win the TDF though.
 
musette said:
I don't think Vino can win the yellow jersey. Bruyneel has also made that observation. Vino only won his first stage in the TdF 05 because he had lost so much time prior to that, that he was permitted by Discovery to go into the break. Vino only won the final stage on the Champs Elysees and came 5th because the race organizers were unclear about the bonus seconds and because Gerolsteiner is badly directed.

If all goes well, Vino could probably have a chance to reach the third step of the podium again.
Great to see you're still as stupid as before.
Right, so only DSC can "permit" stage victories. Because none of the other teams are interested in such trivia and wouldn't want to chase down an attack for their own riders. And obviously nobody cares about winning on the Champs, so they just let Vino ride away from them because they just wanted a beer rather than the minimal glory of a final stage victory. Clearly you are the most idiotic person alive.
 
Ricardo29 said:
gday all.
pls advise thoughts on Vino's chances this year.
i believe he was the outstanding rider of TdF 05. smashed em to Briancon after struggling the day before...winning that final stage....very unlucky over the years to have those 20-60kms downhill runs to the finish (Gap 03) after summits.
with a team focused on him, instead of wasting time and effort on old fat guts from TMobile...surely he has a big big chance. Not that Vino needs a team, theyre really only there to pay him, feed him, massage him and sleep him...but surely he's got to give Basso a big run ??
One of the problems of T-Mobile is not being competitive in the pharmaceuticals side of racing. They get left behind by DSC, CSC & Phonak in that respect.

If Liberty can help Vino like they did with Heras in the Vuelta, then I would say he is a decent chance and might not have the "jour sans" like previously due to the faster "assisted recovery".

I hope to see Vino do well as the Tour is much more exciting with him in it. Maybe constant attacking isn't the best strategy if you are not Eddie Merckx but it makes for much greater interest for us spectators.
 
patch70 said:
Great to see you're still as stupid as before.
Right, so only DSC can "permit" stage victories. Because none of the other teams are interested in such trivia and wouldn't want to chase down an attack for their own riders. And obviously nobody cares about winning on the Champs, so they just let Vino ride away from them because they just wanted a beer rather than the minimal glory of a final stage victory. Clearly you are the most idiotic person alive.


There were a lot of tactics on the day Vino went away with the cleanest and most consistent rider in the peloton: Santiago-King-of-the-mountains-one-day-lose-15 minutes-on Ventoux-the-next-Botero. There had already been a flurry of attacks and a blazing tempo from the start of the stage which went over La Madeleine and Telegraphe-Galibier, quote from Levi: "School is still in. Yesterday professor Discovery taught a lesson on how to ride your bike like a motorcycle. Today's lesson was how to ride your bike like Valentino Rossi's motorcycle. It was fast."

Everyone was very tired from the dy before because the infernal tempo Disco set on Cormet de Roseland and Courchevel. Not my opinion, read the words of Levi Leipheimer after that stage: " Discovery took care of that on the final climb to Courchevel. It's like recess is over, the teachers are back and school is in. Lesson number one - how to destroy a field of riders and take back a yellow jersey…that's what we learnt in school today."

The tempo was fast from the gun, mutiple attacks, no one except Disco could or needed to control the break, It was in everyone interest to let a break get away. The only problem was they had to keep Botero and Vino within reasonable time.

Lance:
"Well, he definitely wasn't our concern today," Armstrong responded when asked why his team let Vinokourov go.
"Our main concern was to keep the team together. He's now six and a half minutes behind on GC and we can't chase down everybody who's at 5, 6, 7 minutes - we have to prioritise. And he was not on our list of priorities, so we let him out there and controlled the pace. If his objective was to win a stage - mission accomplished. If his objective was to blow up the Discovery team - mission not accomplished."

Obviously T Mobile would not chase their rider unless he got way up on Ullrich.
Jan:
"Today there wasn't any attacks in the main bunch. Lance let his boys drive hard so nobody could go. "

CSC perhaps not strong enough to chase and would help them to tire Disco out. Phonak couldnt chase Botero. Rabobank not strong enough to chase for Rasmussen. And Ileas Balares was having its own problems with Valverde going out the same day.

So yes, Disco, like most riders have said control the race, period.
Read Jan Ullrich's words to the same effect over this weekend--that without Disco controlling the race it will actually be much harder a race and unpredictable.

So folks need to get over their anti-Lance or anti-Discovery attitude and realize that the strongest team in professional cycling and in the TdF will ultimately control the race and that often works out failry well for most riders in the race.
 
actually that makes sense....for years i was always saying, 'that Armstrong fellow, he'll never be much of a cyclist'

an waddayaknow

he won the TDF like loads of times just to spite me..

It may work again with Vino..

rule62 said:
That's probably why he would win. Just to show guys like you up. :p
 
hope youre right mountainpro!

for the doomsayers who think he cant win it...which of course he can....would u at least agree he's the most complete cyclist going round?
wins stages....top 5 in the mountains....top 3 in the t'trials, can win sprints if he wants(final stage 05), and is an allround raging bull. if he didnt blow up on that first mountain stage last year (trying to bust it open working for Jan, and confuse the hell out of everyone, in my opinion) then he wouldve been in for a big big show.
 
bobke said:
Lance:
"Well, he definitely wasn't our concern today," Armstrong responded when asked why his team let Vinokourov go.
"Our main concern was to keep the team together. He's now six and a half minutes behind on GC and we can't chase down everybody who's at 5, 6, 7 minutes - we have to prioritise. And he was not on our list of priorities, so we let him out there and controlled the pace. If his objective was to win a stage - mission accomplished. If his objective was to blow up the Discovery team - mission not accomplished.".

More insight into that stage, from thepaceline reports:

"A gutsy win indeed for Alexandre Vinokourov today, on the attack for nearly 150 tough kilometers, up and over three monster climbs, but the real story in today's 11th stage of the Tour de France was how, once again, the Discovery Channel team controlled the stage, a 173 km jaunt through the Alps and up such noted climbs as the Madeleine, the Telegraph and the Galibier. The team limited the damage to Vino and fellow breakaway Santiago Botero to just 1:15 at the line after their lead reached 3:30 at the bottom of the Galibier. But, with a downhill run of nearly 40 kilometers to the finish and with teammates galore to again support him, no trouble for Lance today.... Similar to yesterday, Lance was surrounded by teammates the entire day and had Popovych, Azevedo, Hincapie and Savoldelli with him in the final group."

"After the race, Armstrong's most telling statements were that the team knew Vino would attack, especially after losing over five minutes yesterday, and that, at over six and a half minutes down in the GC, he was no longer a priority, at least for the time being."

Vino's attacks are going to have to be more measured and deliberate in 06, if he is aiming for GC. He cannot muster all the energy needed for some of these attacks, and yet consistently ride well on all stages as required for a GC winner.
 
thats my point...ridiculous down hill 20-60km rolls to the line. what is the point of it, just evens out all those that havent taken on the mountain. god forbid anyone has a crack, eats the mountain, and then gets caught by a pack of poofters who sit there all day on each others wheel doing no work.
 
TMobile probably told him there was uphill finishes......just so he'd half die and then kloden could pull jan up the hill past him and make themselves look good. he's kazakh, cant be controlled...
anyone else with me? someone....anyone.....
 
Ricardo29 said:
hope youre right mountainpro!

for the doomsayers who think he cant win it...which of course he can....would u at least agree he's the most complete cyclist going round?
wins stages....top 5 in the mountains....top 3 in the t'trials, can win sprints if he wants(final stage 05), and is an allround raging bull. if he didnt blow up on that first mountain stage last year (trying to bust it open working for Jan, and confuse the hell out of everyone, in my opinion) then he wouldve been in for a big big show.

I think he's a great rider - Vino is one of my favourite riders.

Unlike a lot of people here, I don't let "fandom" influence who I think can win, and cannot win, a race, despite the best tactics of 62.

Vino can win one day races and 3-10 day stage races.
His palmares proves that.
But I think that a grand tour win at the TDF is not within his capability at this stage of his career.
if he did win the TDF, no one would be more pleased than me.