Vintage gear: Center-pull caliper questions

[U.S. Blues]

I've recently installed on my old 27" road frame a NOS set of Tourney
center-pull calipers. Hopefully, someone with some familiarity with
these can help me out.

1) I wanted to limit the amount of lever travel, so I set them up so
the pads would ride just off the surface of the rim. In order to
allow room for micro-adjustment on the barrels, I did this by
squeezing the calipers closed while bolting the yoke onto the cable.
This worked out just fine -- I was left with enough thread on the
barrels to complete the adjustment. HOWEVER -- this position makes it
impossible to disengage the caliper when I want to remove the wheel.
I simply can't close the calipers enough to remove the yoke from the
straddle cable. Do I need to loosen them up and just live with the
longer lever travel, or does anyone know of any other tricks to solve
this problem?

2) I suppose with such long-reach calipers I shouldn't be suprised,
but when applying my rear brake, I frequently get a very loud groaning
sound, as if a resonance has been set up in the wheel itself. I
thought it might be the 'vintage' pads that came on the calipers, but
it still occurs after replacing the pads with Kool Stops. Any ideas
that can help me silence the thing?

 

[[email protected]]

On 1 Jun 2004 09:02:17 -0700, [email protected] (U.S. Blues)
wrote:

>I've recently installed on my old 27" road frame a NOS set of Tourney
>center-pull calipers. Hopefully, someone with some familiarity with
>these can help me out.
>
>1) I wanted to limit the amount of lever travel, so I set them up so
>the pads would ride just off the surface of the rim. In order to
>allow room for micro-adjustment on the barrels, I did this by
>squeezing the calipers closed while bolting the yoke onto the cable.
>This worked out just fine -- I was left with enough thread on the
>barrels to complete the adjustment. HOWEVER -- this position makes it
>impossible to disengage the caliper when I want to remove the wheel.
>I simply can't close the calipers enough to remove the yoke from the
>straddle cable. Do I need to loosen them up and just live with the
>longer lever travel, or does anyone know of any other tricks to solve
>this problem?
>
>2) I suppose with such long-reach calipers I shouldn't be suprised,
>but when applying my rear brake, I frequently get a very loud groaning
>sound, as if a resonance has been set up in the wheel itself. I
>thought it might be the 'vintage' pads that came on the calipers, but
>it still occurs after replacing the pads with Kool Stops. Any ideas
>that can help me silence the thing?


Just loosen up the barrel adjuster when you need to remove the wheel.
I tend to use the barrel adjuster to find high spots on the rim when
truing my wheels rather than remove my wheel because of this
inconvenience.

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 09:02:17 -0700, U.S. Blues wrote:

> 1) I wanted to limit the amount of lever travel, so I set them up so
> the pads would ride just off the surface of the rim. In order to
> allow room for micro-adjustment on the barrels, I did this by
> squeezing the calipers closed while bolting the yoke onto the cable.
> This worked out just fine -- I was left with enough thread on the
> barrels to complete the adjustment. HOWEVER -- this position makes it
> impossible to disengage the caliper when I want to remove the wheel.

My old Frejus came with center-pulls. On it, the cable hangers had
quick-release mechanisms, so you could put the pads as close to the rim as
you wanted. Finding one of these hangers might be hard these days, and,
no, mine are not for sale.

> 2) I suppose with such long-reach calipers I shouldn't be suprised, but
> when applying my rear brake, I frequently get a very loud groaning
> sound, as if a resonance has been set up in the wheel itself.

More likely the caliper is what is resonating.

I thought
> it might be the 'vintage' pads that came on the calipers, but it still
> occurs after replacing the pads with Kool Stops. Any ideas that can
> help me silence the thing?

Ride it in the rain. That always helps silence squeaky Kool-Stops on
sidepulls.


--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

 

[Rick Onanian]

On 1 Jun 2004 09:02:17 -0700, [email protected] (U.S.
Blues) wrote:
>center-pull calipers. Hopefully, someone with some familiarity with
>
>squeezing the calipers closed while bolting the yoke onto the cable.
>This worked out just fine -- I was left with enough thread on the
>barrels to complete the adjustment. HOWEVER -- this position makes it
>impossible to disengage the caliper when I want to remove the wheel.

Release by removing the straddle cable from the yoke. Even with
close clearance (I like short lever travel before engagement too),
there's sufficient slack to do it, if a little tight. Using a
third-hand or a carpenter's spring clamp helps (makes it easier when
you first bolt the yoke on, too).

The front brake on mine also has a headset-mounted cable hanger that
has is slotted to allow removal of the cable. I still must remove
the straddle at the rear, though. It's actually easier to leave the
straddle on the yoke and remove one end of it from the caliper, now
that I think about it. I keep the tires on it narrow enough to clear
the brake pads anyway.

>2) I suppose with such long-reach calipers I shouldn't be suprised,
>but when applying my rear brake, I frequently get a very loud groaning
>sound, as if a resonance has been set up in the wheel itself. I
>thought it might be the 'vintage' pads that came on the calipers, but
>it still occurs after replacing the pads with Kool Stops. Any ideas
>that can help me silence the thing?

Same here, but I really haven't given it much effort. I figure,
automatic noise-maker/arrival-announcer. I did try using steel wool
on the rim's brake track, and I probably tried filing the pads or
something...that was last year, I don't remember. There's loads of
information for quieting brake squeal if you google groups.
--
Rick Onanian

 

[MSeries]

U.S. Blues wrote:
> I've recently installed on my old 27" road frame a NOS set of Tourney
> center-pull calipers. Hopefully, someone with some familiarity with
> these can help me out.
>
> 1) I wanted to limit the amount of lever travel, so I set them up so
> the pads would ride just off the surface of the rim. In order to
> allow room for micro-adjustment on the barrels, I did this by
> squeezing the calipers closed while bolting the yoke onto the cable.
> This worked out just fine -- I was left with enough thread on the
> barrels to complete the adjustment. HOWEVER -- this position makes it
> impossible to disengage the caliper when I want to remove the wheel.
> I simply can't close the calipers enough to remove the yoke from the
> straddle cable. Do I need to loosen them up and just live with the
> longer lever travel, or does anyone know of any other tricks to solve
> this problem?
>
> 2) I suppose with such long-reach calipers I shouldn't be suprised,
> but when applying my rear brake, I frequently get a very loud groaning
> sound, as if a resonance has been set up in the wheel itself. I
> thought it might be the 'vintage' pads that came on the calipers, but
> it still occurs after replacing the pads with Kool Stops. Any ideas
> that can help me silence the thing?

I have Weinman centre pulls on my tourer, they levers have a QR built in to
allow the calipers to be widened for wheel removal. I replaced the original
levers recently with some Shimano Exage Motion ones that also have the QR
function. The old Weinman levers are available for sale, they date from
around 1987. I am in the UK so shipping may be prohibitive.

 

[U.S. Blues]

Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 1 Jun 2004 09:02:17 -0700, [email protected] (U.S.
> Blues) wrote:
> >center-pull calipers. Hopefully, someone with some familiarity with
> >
> >squeezing the calipers closed while bolting the yoke onto the cable.
> >This worked out just fine -- I was left with enough thread on the
> >barrels to complete the adjustment. HOWEVER -- this position makes it
> >impossible to disengage the caliper when I want to remove the wheel.
>
> Release by removing the straddle cable from the yoke. Even with
> close clearance (I like short lever travel before engagement too),
> there's sufficient slack to do it, if a little tight. Using a
> third-hand or a carpenter's spring clamp helps (makes it easier when
> you first bolt the yoke on, too).

That's my first choice, but even with the barrels loosened as far as
they'll go, I can't get enough travel to raise the straddle high
enough. Hmmm... I wonder if I should try one of those wide yokes they
make for cantilevers? For now, I guess, I'll just have to live with
more lever travel.

>
> The front brake on mine also has a headset-mounted cable hanger that
> has is slotted to allow removal of the cable. I still must remove
> the straddle at the rear, though. It's actually easier to leave the
> straddle on the yoke and remove one end of it from the caliper, now
> that I think about it. I keep the tires on it narrow enough to clear
> the brake pads anyway.
>

Another poster mentioned the slotted hanger, but I've not found one
yet. I'll check out LooseScrews and Bikeville from time to time.

> >2) I suppose with such long-reach calipers I shouldn't be suprised,
> >but when applying my rear brake, I frequently get a very loud groaning
> >sound, as if a resonance has been set up in the wheel itself. I
> >thought it might be the 'vintage' pads that came on the calipers, but
> >it still occurs after replacing the pads with Kool Stops. Any ideas
> >that can help me silence the thing?
>
> Same here, but I really haven't given it much effort. I figure,
> automatic noise-maker/arrival-announcer. I did try using steel wool
> on the rim's brake track, and I probably tried filing the pads or
> something...that was last year, I don't remember. There's loads of
> information for quieting brake squeal if you google groups.

I've pretty much just decided to live with it. It's only a problem
with my rear brake, which I don't use that much anyway.

 

[U.S. Blues]

"MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> U.S. Blues wrote:
> > I've recently installed on my old 27" road frame a NOS set of Tourney
> > center-pull calipers. Hopefully, someone with some familiarity with
> > these can help me out.
> >
> > 1) I wanted to limit the amount of lever travel, so I set them up so
> > the pads would ride just off the surface of the rim. In order to
> > allow room for micro-adjustment on the barrels, I did this by
> > squeezing the calipers closed while bolting the yoke onto the cable.
> > This worked out just fine -- I was left with enough thread on the
> > barrels to complete the adjustment. HOWEVER -- this position makes it
> > impossible to disengage the caliper when I want to remove the wheel.
> > I simply can't close the calipers enough to remove the yoke from the
> > straddle cable. Do I need to loosen them up and just live with the
> > longer lever travel, or does anyone know of any other tricks to solve
> > this problem?
> >
> > 2) I suppose with such long-reach calipers I shouldn't be suprised,
> > but when applying my rear brake, I frequently get a very loud groaning
> > sound, as if a resonance has been set up in the wheel itself. I
> > thought it might be the 'vintage' pads that came on the calipers, but
> > it still occurs after replacing the pads with Kool Stops. Any ideas
> > that can help me silence the thing?
>
> I have Weinman centre pulls on my tourer, they levers have a QR built in to
> allow the calipers to be widened for wheel removal. I replaced the original
> levers recently with some Shimano Exage Motion ones that also have the QR
> function. The old Weinman levers are available for sale, they date from
> around 1987. I am in the UK so shipping may be prohibitive.

The Tourneys also have slots where the straddles mount, but the slots
are at about 10 degrees or so from verticle in the wrong direction.
There's no way to squeeze the caliper enough to release the straddle.

 

[Rick Onanian]

On 2 Jun 2004 06:13:51 -0700, [email protected] (U.S.
Blues) wrote:
>Another poster mentioned the slotted hanger, but I've not found one
>yet. I'll check out LooseScrews and Bikeville from time to time.
....
>I've pretty much just decided to live with it. It's only a problem
>with my rear brake, which I don't use that much anyway.

You might try cutting your own slot in the hanger, if it looks like
it will hold together. I wouldn't do it for the front, but in the
rear, you might get away with it.
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Thomas Reynolds]

[email protected] (U.S. Blues) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I've recently installed on my old 27" road frame a NOS set of Tourney
> center-pull calipers. Hopefully, someone with some familiarity with
> these can help me out.
>
> 1) I wanted to limit the amount of lever travel, so I set them up so
> the pads would ride just off the surface of the rim. In order to
> allow room for micro-adjustment on the barrels, I did this by
> squeezing the calipers closed while bolting the yoke onto the cable.
> This worked out just fine -- I was left with enough thread on the
> barrels to complete the adjustment. HOWEVER -- this position makes it
> impossible to disengage the caliper when I want to remove the wheel.
> I simply can't close the calipers enough to remove the yoke from the
> straddle cable. Do I need to loosen them up and just live with the
> longer lever travel, or does anyone know of any other tricks to solve
> this problem?
>
Many brake levers from those days had quick releases. At the top end
of the brake lever a metal plate moves so that when the lever is
released it moves farther in and releases more cable. These levers
should be available cheap from garage sales or thrift stores (although
you may have to buy the whole bike).

Of course, you have to be able to squeeze the levers enough to move
the metal plate and if your clearances are real tight you may not be
able to do this.

You can always just deflate the tire enough to get it between the
brake pads.

Tom

 

[David White]

Rivendell still has some brake levers as described below. NOS. See
http://rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/brakes/15101.html. This is how I'd go
rather than trying to cut a new slot in the caliper.

Thomas Reynolds wrote:

> [email protected] (U.S. Blues) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>I've recently installed on my old 27" road frame a NOS set of Tourney
>>center-pull calipers. Hopefully, someone with some familiarity with
>>these can help me out.
>>
>>1) I wanted to limit the amount of lever travel, so I set them up so
>>the pads would ride just off the surface of the rim. In order to
>>allow room for micro-adjustment on the barrels, I did this by
>>squeezing the calipers closed while bolting the yoke onto the cable.
>>This worked out just fine -- I was left with enough thread on the
>>barrels to complete the adjustment. HOWEVER -- this position makes it
>>impossible to disengage the caliper when I want to remove the wheel.
>>I simply can't close the calipers enough to remove the yoke from the
>>straddle cable. Do I need to loosen them up and just live with the
>>longer lever travel, or does anyone know of any other tricks to solve
>>this problem?
>>
>
> Many brake levers from those days had quick releases. At the top end
> of the brake lever a metal plate moves so that when the lever is
> released it moves farther in and releases more cable. These levers
> should be available cheap from garage sales or thrift stores (although
> you may have to buy the whole bike).
>
> Of course, you have to be able to squeeze the levers enough to move
> the metal plate and if your clearances are real tight you may not be
> able to do this.
>
> You can always just deflate the tire enough to get it between the
> brake pads.
>
> Tom

 

[davek]

Thomas Reynolds:
> Many brake levers from those days had quick releases. At the top end
> of the brake lever a metal plate moves so that when the lever is
> released it moves farther in and releases more cable.

I could hit myself. For years I've had exactly this kind of brake set-up and
I never even realised that the levers had this quick-release function - I
noticed they had the metal plate but I never guessed it actually did
anything useful.

> These levers
> should be available cheap from garage sales or thrift stores (although
> you may have to buy the whole bike).

Well, I just recently upgraded my brakes to aero levers and dual-pivots so I
have the old Weinmanns going spare (calipers and levers) - I'd be happy to
come to some arrangement with the OP if he's interested.

> You can always just deflate the tire enough to get it between the
> brake pads.

That's what I always used to do. I much prefer the new arrangement though -
I've got the Exage levers with a little button on the side, and when
released they give quite a bit of extra space between the calipers. Braking
performance is noticeably improved too - I don't have to pull nearly as hard
on the levers when I want to brake hard.

d.

 

[Hal]

"davek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thomas Reynolds:
> > Many brake levers from those days had quick releases. At the top end
> > of the brake lever a metal plate moves so that when the lever is
> > released it moves farther in and releases more cable.
>
> I could hit myself. For years I've had exactly this kind of brake set-up
and
> I never even realised that the levers had this quick-release function - I
> noticed they had the metal plate but I never guessed it actually did
> anything useful.
>
> > These levers
> > should be available cheap from garage sales or thrift stores (although
> > you may have to buy the whole bike).
>
> Well, I just recently upgraded my brakes to aero levers and dual-pivots so
I
> have the old Weinmanns going spare (calipers and levers) - I'd be happy to
> come to some arrangement with the OP if he's interested.
>

OP here (from different account).

Thanks, but I'm OK with my current Frankenbike set-up. Until I get myself
into better shape, I've replaced my drop bars and aero levers with flat
bars, and a nice set of sort-of-vintage Deore DX levers (the push-push kind
that Sheldon says people don't like).

> > You can always just deflate the tire enough to get it between the
> > brake pads.
>
> That's what I always used to do. I much prefer the new arrangement
though -
> I've got the Exage levers with a little button on the side, and when
> released they give quite a bit of extra space between the calipers.
Braking
> performance is noticeably improved too - I don't have to pull nearly as
hard
> on the levers when I want to brake hard.
>
> d.

I'll experiment, but I think I'll probably just learn to live with a bit
more lever travel.