Which Campy Ergo/derailleurs go with Shimano 9s cassette--9s or 10s?

[Kovie]

I'm building up a new triple-crank road bike and am thinking of combining Campy Centaur Ergo
shifters and rear/front derailleurs with a Shimano Ultegra 9s cassette and chain, which I understand
works pretty well. I'm going with the Shimano c/c because I recently bought a new wheelset that's
Shimano-compatible (Mavic Cosmos), and it doesn't accept a Campy cassette. I'm not sure, though,
about some things:

1 - Will both the 10s and 9s Campy shifters/derailleurs work with this setup, or do I need one or
the other, and if so which one? Can one be easily converted to work like the other without much fuss
and cost, and if so which one? It would be nice to go with the 10s so I could move up to an
all-Campy setup in the future and keep these components.

2 - I'm leaning towards getting a Centaur BB & crankset as well, because they're slightly less
expensive, are more esthetically pleasing to me, and I'd like to make this as close to to an
all-Campy setup as possible. Are these components better than the comparable Ultegras? And do the
same limitations in terms of 9s vs, 10s apply, and if so which versions should I get?

3 - I've heard that there are Shimano hub-compatible 10s cassettes. Who makes these, do they work
with Campy Ergo shifters & derailleurs, and if so which ones (i.e. 9s or 10s)?

I suppose that the simplest solution would be to return the Shimano-compatible wheelset and get a
Campy-compatible one instead, which would allow me to get an all-Campy setup. But I got a good deal
on these wheels and would rather not go through the process of returning them and paying more for a
new wheelset. (I know, I know, that's not much of a price to pay for a bike I'll be riding for
years, but I just want to know what all my options are before deciding.)

--
Kovie [email protected]

 

[Kovie]

Put another way, if I want to use Campy Ergo shifters with a Shimano-compatible hub and 9s cassette:

1 - Can I use Campy 10s front/rear derailleurs and 10s Ergos, and if so are there any adjustments
needed and/or limitiations involved in terms of performance, reliability or durability?

2 - Or do I have to stick with 9s for all three components, and if so are there also any adjustments
needed and/or limitiations involved in terms of performance, reliability or durability?

3 - Or is it better to go with Shimano rear/front derailleurs and perform the needed adjustment to
make this work?

4 - Does it matter either way whether I go for Campy or Shimano BBs/cranks? If it's all the same,
I'd prefer to go Campy with these.

Thanks, and sorry about all the postings! I'm just trying to figure out the complexities of mixing
and matching Shimano and Campy components and making sure I don't end up with a pile of incompatible
parts that have to be returned.

--
Kovie [email protected]

"Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:a5Jkb.822973$YN5.850380@sccrnsc01...
> I'm building up a new triple-crank road bike and am thinking of combining Campy Centaur Ergo
> shifters and rear/front derailleurs with a Shimano Ultegra 9s cassette and chain, which I
> understand works pretty well. I'm going with the Shimano c/c because I recently bought a new
> wheelset that's Shimano-compatible (Mavic Cosmos), and it doesn't accept a Campy cassette. I'm not
> sure, though, about some things:
>
> 1 - Will both the 10s and 9s Campy shifters/derailleurs work with this setup, or do I need one or
> the other, and if so which one? Can one be
easily
> converted to work like the other without much fuss and cost, and if so
which
> one? It would be nice to go with the 10s so I could move up to an
all-Campy
> setup in the future and keep these components.
>
> 2 - I'm leaning towards getting a Centaur BB & crankset as well, because they're slightly less
> expensive, are more esthetically pleasing to me, and I'd like to make this as close to to an
> all-Campy setup as possible. Are these components better than the comparable Ultegras? And do the
> same limitations in terms of 9s vs, 10s apply, and if so which versions should
I
> get?
>
> 3 - I've heard that there are Shimano hub-compatible 10s cassettes. Who makes these, do they work
> with Campy Ergo shifters & derailleurs, and if
so
> which ones (i.e. 9s or 10s)?
>
> I suppose that the simplest solution would be to return the Shimano-compatible wheelset and get a
> Campy-compatible one instead, which would allow me to get an all-Campy setup. But I got a good
> deal on these wheels and would rather not go through the process of returning them and paying more
> for a new wheelset. (I know, I know, that's not much of a
price
> to pay for a bike I'll be riding for years, but I just want to know what
all
> my options are before deciding.)
>
> --
> Kovie [email protected]

 

[toates]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:05:18 GMT, "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Put another way, if I want to use Campy Ergo shifters with a Shimano-compatible hub and 9s
>cassette:
>
>1 - Can I use Campy 10s front/rear derailleurs and 10s Ergos, and if so are there any adjustments
>needed and/or limitiations involved in terms of performance, reliability or durability?
>
>2 - Or do I have to stick with 9s for all three components, and if so are there also any
>adjustments needed and/or limitiations involved in terms of performance, reliability or durability?
>
>3 - Or is it better to go with Shimano rear/front derailleurs and perform the needed adjustment to
>make this work?
>
>4 - Does it matter either way whether I go for Campy or Shimano BBs/cranks? If it's all the same,
>I'd prefer to go Campy with these.
>
>Thanks, and sorry about all the postings! I'm just trying to figure out the complexities of mixing
>and matching Shimano and Campy components and making sure I don't end up with a pile of
>incompatible parts that have to be returned.

You only need the Ergos and a rear derailleurs. I've been running a Campy/Shimano 9 speed mix like
this on two bikes that have well over 10,000 miles each without any problems. I have needed no
special adjustment, other than normal attention to detail. I love the convenience and lower cost of
being able to use Shimano cassettes and third party chains.

I see 2003 Veloce 9 speed available for only $160 and I believe that they can be refitted for 10
speed for a minimal cost later if you like. Peter Chisholm of Vecchio's Bicicletteria in
Boulder, CO,
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com, is the resident expert on these things here and can confirm
the details.

 

[Kovie]

Would this work with 10s Ergos & derailleurs too? This would allow me to upgrade to a 10s all-Campy
drivetrain in the future. And actually, a couple of places are selling the Centaur Ergos for $130
now, among them Excel. Not sure if this is the 9s or 10s though.

--
Kovie [email protected]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:05:18 GMT, "Kovie" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Put another way, if I want to use Campy Ergo shifters with a Shimano-compatible hub and 9s
> >cassette:
> >
> >1 - Can I use Campy 10s front/rear derailleurs and 10s Ergos, and if so
are
> >there any adjustments needed and/or limitiations involved in terms of performance, reliability or
> >durability?
> >
> >2 - Or do I have to stick with 9s for all three components, and if so are there also any
> >adjustments needed and/or limitiations involved in terms
of
> >performance, reliability or durability?
> >
> >3 - Or is it better to go with Shimano rear/front derailleurs and perform the needed adjustment
> >to make this work?
> >
> >4 - Does it matter either way whether I go for Campy or Shimano
BBs/cranks?
> >If it's all the same, I'd prefer to go Campy with these.
> >
> >Thanks, and sorry about all the postings! I'm just trying to figure out
the
> >complexities of mixing and matching Shimano and Campy components and
making
> >sure I don't end up with a pile of incompatible parts that have to be returned.
>
>
> You only need the Ergos and a rear derailleurs. I've been running a Campy/Shimano 9 speed mix like
> this on two bikes that have well over 10,000 miles each without any problems. I have needed no
> special adjustment, other than normal attention to detail. I love the convenience and lower cost
> of being able to use Shimano cassettes and third party chains.
>
> I see 2003 Veloce 9 speed available for only $160 and I believe that they can be refitted for 10
> speed for a minimal cost later if you like. Peter Chisholm of Vecchio's Bicicletteria in
> Boulder, CO,
> (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com, is the resident expert on these things here and can confirm
> the details.

 

[Pete Biggs]

Kovie wrote:
> Put another way, if I want to use Campy Ergo shifters with a Shimano-compatible hub and 9s
> cassette:
>
> 1 - Can I use Campy 10s front/rear derailleurs and 10s Ergos, and if so are there any adjustments
> needed and/or limitiations involved in terms of performance, reliability or durability?

Can't use 10sp Ergos with Shimano 9sp cassette (because sprocket spacing is wrong) unless you modify
the Ergos to 9sp (not worth it and no need) or you do the following..........
http://www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm

Note. 9sp Ergos can be converted to 10sp by changing an internal part of two (not an easy job).

I'm not sure about 10sp front derailleur with 9sp chain.

> 4 - Does it matter either way whether I go for Campy or Shimano BBs/cranks? If it's all the same,
> I'd prefer to go Campy with these.

Ergos will work with ANY crankset and front derailleur. Campag cranks require Campag BB.

~PB

 

[Appkiller]

<snip>
> Can't use 10sp Ergos with Shimano 9sp cassette (because sprocket spacing is wrong) unless you
> modify the Ergos to 9sp (not worth it and no need) or you do the following..........
> http://www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm
<snip>

Untrue, at least according to Peter Chisholm. He posted earlier this year about running 10v Campy
with 9v Shimano-compatible wheels. Claimed he had a guy do a road race with that setup and it worked
very well.

I haven't tried it but he would have no reason to lie.

Google this thread "For info-Campagnolo 10s shifters-9s cogset" by Qui Si Parla Campagnolo (Peter
Chisholm) for more info.

App

 

[Pete Biggs]

Appkiller wrote:
> <snip>
>> Can't use 10sp Ergos with Shimano 9sp cassette (because sprocket spacing is wrong) unless you
>> modify the Ergos to 9sp (not worth it and no need) or you do the following..........
>> http://www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm
> <snip>
>
> Untrue, at least according to Peter Chisholm. He posted earlier this year about running 10v Campy
> with 9v Shimano-compatible wheels. Claimed he had a guy do a road race with that setup and it
> worked very well.

Would you want to use that? That's 4.12mm indexing with 4.12 spacing.

> I haven't tried it but he would have no reason to lie.

"Worked very well" is subjective.

~PB

 

[Bikertriker]

I have converted two Ultegra equipped bikes to Campagnolo Ergo 10 speed shifters using the mentioned
website. One was a triple and the other a double. Both have several thousand miles on them and the
ultegra shifters became less precise

> http://www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm

About the only variation that I did was to cut a vertical groove in the Ultegra derailleurs with a
triangle file to help better locate the cable.

They shift at least as well as my other bike with Record Ten speed everything.

One thing that is forgotten is that although derailleurs move a certain amount with a specific cable
pull, changing the cable routing can be an overlooked factor changing leverage. I bet that many
other combinations would work fine. dave

 

[Bikertriker]

I have converted two Ultegra equipped bikes to Campagnolo Ergo 10 speed shifters using the mentioned
website. One was a triple and the other a double. Both have several thousand miles on them and the
ultegra shifters became less precise

> http://www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm

About the only variation that I did was to cut a vertical groove in the Ultegra derailleurs with a
triangle file to help better locate the cable.

They shift at least as well as my other bike with Record Ten speed everything.

One thing that is forgotten is that although derailleurs move a certain amount with a specific cable
pull, changing the cable routing can be an overlooked factor changing leverage. I bet that many
other combinations would work fine. dave

 

[Kovie]

> Would you want to use that? That's 4.12mm indexing with 4.12 spacing.

Perhaps I'm missing the irony here due to my inexperience with this, but isn't having the indexing
and spacing be identical, as above, a good thing? Are you saying that a 10s Ergo & 10s rdr are NOT
the way to go with a 9s Shimano cassette?

--
Kovie [email protected]

"Pete Biggs" <pbiggmellon{remove_fruit}[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Appkiller wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> Can't use 10sp Ergos with Shimano 9sp cassette (because sprocket spacing is wrong) unless you
> >> modify the Ergos to 9sp (not worth it and no need) or you do the following..........
> >> http://www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm
> > <snip>
> >
> > Untrue, at least according to Peter Chisholm. He posted earlier this year about running 10v
> > Campy with 9v Shimano-compatible wheels. Claimed he had a guy do a road race with that setup and
> > it worked very well.
>
> Would you want to use that? That's 4.12mm indexing with 4.12 spacing.
>
> > I haven't tried it but he would have no reason to lie.
>
> "Worked very well" is subjective.
>
> ~PB

 

[Pete Biggs]

Kovie wrote:

>> Would you want to use that? That's 4.12mm indexing with 4.12 spacing.

> Perhaps I'm missing the irony here due to my inexperience with this, but isn't having the indexing
> and spacing be identical, as above, a good thing?

Yes! No actually, very sorry, that was a typo. I attempted to edit the post after I typed it to
make the sentence more readable but failed to finish the job.

That should be "4.34mm spacing". Shimano 9sp is 4.34, Campag 10sp is
4.12. Check: www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#spacing

> Are you saying that a 10s Ergo & 10s rdr are NOT the way to go with a 9s Shimano cassette?

Personally, I would not want to do it (at least not without the alternative cable routing). You may
be able to shift gear ok, but it's hard enough to get an all-Campag system working *noise-free* with
correct cassette let alone an incorrect one.

~PB

 

[Robert Strickla]

> Yes! No actually, very sorry, that was a typo. I attempted to edit the post after I typed it
> to make the sentence more readable but failed to finish the job.
>
> That should be "4.34mm spacing". Shimano 9sp is 4.34, Campag 10sp is
> 4.12. Check: www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#spacing
>
> > Are you saying that a 10s Ergo & 10s rdr are NOT the way to go with a 9s Shimano cassette?
>
> Personally, I would not want to do it (at least not without the alternative cable routing). You
> may be able to shift gear ok, but it's hard enough to get an all-Campag system working
> *noise-free* with correct cassette let alone an incorrect one.
>
> ~PB

I think you're overstating the difficulty. The difference between the two is .22mm. If you set the
derailleur up on the 5th cog of a 9's cassette that means that at either end you have a difference
of .11mm. 1/10th of a mm isn't going to be a big deal. I set my bike up with an all 9's Campy train
and a Shimano cassette. That has a difference of .21mm according to Sheldon's chart. It runs
smoothly and quietly and required little in the way of fiddling to get it there. If you read past
the end of Sheldon's chart he states, "In particular, for reasons that are not quite clear, 9-speed
hubs/cassettes seem to work pretty well with the opposite 9-speed derailleur/shifter brand."

Rob Strickland

 

[Appkiller]

<snip>
>but it's hard enough to get an all-Campag system working *noise-free* with correct cassette let
>alone an incorrect one.
<snip>

That's ****.

<troll on>

Go back to shimano-land, where parts are ugly, last about two years (especially the freehubs) and
cannot be fixed. Holy christ, what were they thinking with that new Dura **** crankset?

My Campagnolo equipped bikes are silent next to the rattling, shimano-equipped grinding wrecks that
my riding partners mistakenly purchased. Anytime they get toward either end of the cassette the
front der starts grinding on the chain. They try to use the lame-ass trim position on the shifters
but it doesn't help. These are stiff bikes, Canny's, LeMond 853 steel, etc...

What is up with the der cables hanging out there off the levers? And the size and shape of those
levers, with that giant bulge out at the end, could they have made them any more fugly? I notice
that the new Dura **** levers have been flattened somewhat on the tops, oops, another thing that
Campagnolo got right and shimano is copying. And they made them even bigger!

<troll off - ducks and covers>

App

 

[Pete Biggs]

Appkiller wrote:
> <snip>
>> but it's hard enough to get an all-Campag system working *noise-free* with correct cassette let
>> alone an incorrect one.
> <snip>
>
> That's ****.

Not in my experience, with more than one Campag setup. Perhaps some people accept chain rubbing
noise as normal. I don't like to, not when I've paid this much.

The noise I refer to is the potential noise of chain rubbing adjacent sprockets once in gear and
pedalling normally. I am NOT talking about long term reliability of the drivetrain, etc, etc, or
about how it compares to $himaNO.

The cable needs to be adjusted to set the derailleur far enough towards the next smaller sprocket to
avoid the excesses of the Ergo's deliberate overshifting feature (on downshifting) yet not so near
that the chain rubs the neighbouring sprocket. It doesn't help that all Ergos have a small design
flaw that means very slightly too much cable is released after using the thumb button (which is
taken back up next time the downshift lever is used). Normally, this is such a small deal that most
users have never even noticed it, but no way would I want to combine it with closer spacing.

If anything, the system benefits from slightly *wider* spacing - as I noticed when temporarily using
my 9sp system with a Campag 8sp wheel & cassette with some 9sp spacers (8sp sprockets are thicker).

~PB

 

[David Damerell]

Robert Strickland <[email protected]> wrote:
>>That should be "4.34mm spacing". Shimano 9sp is 4.34, Campag 10sp is
>>4.12. Check: www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#spacing
>I think you're overstating the difficulty. The difference between the two is .22mm. If you set the
>derailleur up on the 5th cog of a 9's cassette that means that at either end you have a difference
>of .11mm.

Surely if the difference in spacing is .22mm per sprocket, the difference at either end
will be .88mm.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!