Why Can't Mountain Bikers EVER Tell the TRUTH???!



On Wed, 26 May 2004 15:14:25 -0400, Joseph Jozwik wrote:

> Quick question. I read on your site
>
> WARNING: It is probably impossible to understand my web page, if you own a
> car.
> Or a mountain bike.
>
> Mike what exactly is your niche market of people you go after?
>

It is kind of bizarre.... How does one get around? Get some experience?
See the world? Heck, see the mountains?

So, let's see. I eat, and my food is trucked in. So, even if I don't own
a car, I use vehicles to get my food.

Chances are pretty good, if I use electricity, or fuel oil, that a
fossil-fuel burning vehicle was involved.

And so on and so forth.

Self-righteous pompous fools like MV need to look around. Read the United
Nations University study that shows the 'clean' computer industry consumes
an incredible amount of energy and generates an enormous amount of
pollution.

Bah humbug.... I'm just a little guy who picks up other people's trash
in the mountains and along the roads.

--Kamus

--
o__ | May your trails be dim, lonesome, stony, narrow, winding and
,>/'_ | only slightly uphill. May the wind bring rain for the slickrock
(_)\(_) | potholes fourteen miles on the other side of yonder blue ridge.
| May God's dog serenade your campfire, may the rattlesnake and
o | the screech owl amuse your reveries, may the Great Sun dazzle
>[] | your eyes by day and the Great Bear watch over you at night.
/\ |
\ \ | - Edward Abbey, Beyond the Wall
 
On Wed, 26 May 2004 21:36:54 GMT, Brett Jaffee
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Joseph Jozwik wrote:
>> Quick question. I read on your site
>>
>> WARNING: It is probably impossible to understand my web page, if you
>> own a car.
>> Or a mountain bike.
>>
>> Mike what exactly is your niche market of people you go after?
>>
>This is what us non-PhDs would call "preaching to the choir."

A choir contains more than one person.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
 
Gary S. <Idontwantspam@net> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Wed, 26 May 2004 21:36:54 GMT, Brett Jaffee
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Joseph Jozwik wrote:
>>> Quick question. I read on your site
>>>
>>> WARNING: It is probably impossible to understand my web page, if you
>>> own a car.
>>> Or a mountain bike.
>>>
>>> Mike what exactly is your niche market of people you go after?
>>>
>>This is what us non-PhDs would call "preaching to the choir."
>
> A choir contains more than one person.
>

Okay, "preaching to the mirror" then. :)
 
On Tue, 25 May 2004 19:16:48 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Thu, 20 May 2004 10:52:42 -0500, "Jason" <[email protected]> wrote:
..>
..> .
..> .> ===
..> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..> .>
..> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> .
..> .LIAR
..>
..> Where's the lie?
..
..Here is a lie, and a direct quote.
..
..(I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
..construction.)
..
..
..I have been visiting ca.environment for something in the neighborhood of 5
..years, and you have been making the same irrelevent claim the entire time.
..You could not have spent the past 8 years doing these things, because I have
..been coming here for the majority of those years, and you have not fought
..these issues more than once that I can remember, and that time you lost. You
..may have fought these issues, but not for 8 years, therefore the statement
..is a lie, according to your own definition of what a lie is.
..
..Not only are you a liar, you are an idiot.

Learn how to read English. The 8 years are previous to my current wildlife
activism. DUH!!!!! I has been true since I first said it. You liars wouldn't
know the truth if it hit you in the face. You have had about 9 years to learn to
read, and STILL can't!
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Tue, 25 May 2004 19:32:15 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..>
..> "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> news:[email protected]...
..> > On Thu, 20 May 2004 10:52:42 -0500, "Jason" <[email protected]> wrote:
..> >
..> > .
..> > .> ===
..> > .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> > .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> > .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..> > .>
..> > .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> > .
..> > .LIAR
..> >
..> > Where's the lie?
..>
..> Here is a lie, and a direct quote.
..>
..> (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
..> construction.)
..>
..>
..> I have been visiting ca.environment for something in the neighborhood of 5
..> years, and you have been making the same irrelevent claim the entire time.
..> You could not have spent the past 8 years doing these things, because I
..have
..> been coming here for the majority of those years, and you have not fought
..> these issues more than once that I can remember, and that time you lost.
..You
..> may have fought these issues, but not for 8 years, therefore the statement
..> is a lie, according to your own definition of what a lie is.
..>
..> Not only are you a liar, you are an idiot.
..>
..>
..
..I did a simple Google search on your idiocy, and found that you have been
..using the sig line since at least 1998.

So you are smart enough to use Google, but not smart enough to learn to read.
That statement was true when I first said it, and is STILL true. Idiot.

..---
..I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years
..fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..
..http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles
..
..It is difficult for me to give proof of the date of the article I pulled
..this from, but it was on the 87 page of hits, so it was a very long time
..ago. You tell so many lies so constantly that it is difficult for us to
..follow them all, and apparently impossible for you to follow them.
..
..You really should try the truth. No, never mind, you won't like it.
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Wed, 26 May 2004 11:04:48 -0500, "Jason" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..>
..> "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> news:[email protected]...
..> >
..> > "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> > news:[email protected]...
..> > > On Thu, 20 May 2004 10:52:42 -0500, "Jason" <[email protected]> wrote:
..> > >
..> > > .
..> > > .> ===
..> > > .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> > > .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> > > .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..> > > .>
..> > > .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> > > .
..> > > .LIAR
..> > >
..> > > Where's the lie?
..> >
..> > Here is a lie, and a direct quote.
..> >
..> > (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
..> > construction.)
..> >
..> >
..> > I have been visiting ca.environment for something in the neighborhood of
..5
..> > years, and you have been making the same irrelevent claim the entire
..time.
..> > You could not have spent the past 8 years doing these things, because I
..> have
..> > been coming here for the majority of those years, and you have not
..fought
..> > these issues more than once that I can remember, and that time you lost.
..> You
..> > may have fought these issues, but not for 8 years, therefore the
..statement
..> > is a lie, according to your own definition of what a lie is.
..> >
..> > Not only are you a liar, you are an idiot.
..> >
..> >
..>
..> I did a simple Google search on your idiocy, and found that you have been
..> using the sig line since at least 1998.
..>
..> ---
..
..LMAO Perfect! The Liar exposed! Thanks!

Don't count your turds till they come out.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Wed, 26 May 2004 15:14:25 -0400, "Joseph Jozwik" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..Quick question. I read on your site
..
..WARNING: It is probably impossible to understand my web page, if you own a
..car.
..Or a mountain bike.
..
..Mike what exactly is your niche market of people you go after?

Honest people. Don't even try.

.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Thu, 20 May 2004 10:52:42 -0500, "Jason" <[email protected]> wrote:
..>
..> .
..> .> ===
..> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..> .>
..> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> .
..> .LIAR
..>
..> Where's the lie?
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:15:36 -0400, S Curtiss <[email protected]> wrote:

..>
..
.."clipped for protection of the innocent"
..
..>
..> .> Sorry you've had some tough experiences with mountain bikers. Do you think
..> .> there is any place appropriate for mountain biking?
..> .>
..> .> Of course: on paved roads.
..> .
..> .Then it isn't mountain biking, it is road biking.
..>
..> I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where you belong.
..>
..
..Where "I" belong? Actually, I call it "off road cycling". And I "belong" on legal trail
..systems, national parks and any area recognized for off road cycling.

National parks are closed to mountain biking.

Where you think I
..belong is irrelevant. Which of these doesn't belong? Mountains, Trees, Animals, Wal-Mart.
..
..>
..> .> That's nonsense. One look at my web site would tell you otherwise. Why do
..> .> mountain bikers have such a hard time telling the truth???
..> .
..> .Really? If not half, then a third is devoted to anti-mt mike propoganda...
..> .certainly seems extraordinary in comparison...
..>
..> ZERO propaganda. Just the truth.
..
..Selective "scientific" information to support opinions is propoganda. Presenting opinion
..as fact is propoganda. Proclaiming yourself as an authority in an attempt to make your
..opinions sound important is propoganda. Claiming absolute "truth" is propoganda.

I've never claimed "absolute truth", liar.

..> .> WHAT hostility? I am just telling the truth -- something I guess you aren't used
..> .> to. You interpret that as hostility.
..> .
..> .No... calling people liars, idiots, stupid, killers.... that is hostility.
..>
..> No, it's just honesty.
..
..You may honestly disagree with information or points of view. But calling someone "liar"
..and "idiot" is hostile.

No, it's just the truth.

Simply having different opinions or information from you does not
..make someone a liar.

Of course. LYING makes you a liar.

Stating the differing information or point of view does not make
..someone an "idiot". Calling them "stupid" for not agreeing with you is not honesty. It is
..antagonism.

No, it's truth.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Wed, 26 May 2004 19:36:28 +0100, "Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..Hey Mike. You obviously don't have a bike or a car, so how do you get
..about?

walk, bike, or public transit.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> National parks are closed to mountain biking.

Liar

google for "national park"+"mountain bike" reveals:

Haleakala National Park
Joshua Tree National Park
Zion National Park
Great Smoky Mountains National Park
Arches National Park

All refer to/allow mountain biking in one form or another. There are others.
One park, GSM, specifically and explicitly states: "Bicycles are prohibited
on park trails, with four exceptions."
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~dunigan/mtnbike/rich.html

Pete
 
"Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where you
> belong.
>
> Ok, ok, we'll call them pavement bikes just for you.
>
> Look you tree licking animal shagging hippy, mountain bikes are mountain
> bikes because they're, (please note hyphenation,) "OFFROAD"
>
>

Run out to Walmart. Go to the clue section. Buy several and pass them
around................

He who must not be named cares not what you think and is immune to the likes
of you.

Why bother? Of course, like a train wreck, I watch this stuff anyway too.

Marty
 
On Fri, 21 May 2004 17:19:23 GMT, MudGrrl <[email protected]>
wrote:

..After reading yesterday's post (Why don't Mountain Bikers Get It?) and
..today's post.......
..
..
..
..I am gonna go out and buy the biggest knobbiest tires and trapse all
..over this green Earth.
..
..Then I'm gonna kick a tree!!!!:D
..
..
..I did check Mike's site out, as it is always good to try to learn what
..the opposition is specifically fighting for... Listening is the first
..part of any compromise, you know?
..
..
..This guy doesn't want to compromise. He doesn't even want to listen.

I DO listen, which is why I know exactly how aggressive, belligerent, dishonest,
and destructive mountain bikers are.

..I admire Karsen's willingness to extend dialogue.
..
..I am also happy that I am not talking to Mr. Mike Vandeman, PHD.
..
..
..-Heather Craig, PHD ;)
..
..(I do not have a PHD, but find it rather humorous that Mike seems to
..have added it as a last name)

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:42:10 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
..>
..> National parks are closed to mountain biking.
..
..Liar

In general, mational parks are closed to mountain biking. You may have found the
regulations on mountain biking.

..google for "national park"+"mountain bike" reveals:
..
..Haleakala National Park
..Joshua Tree National Park
..Zion National Park
..Great Smoky Mountains National Park
..Arches National Park
..
..All refer to/allow mountain biking in one form or another. There are others.
..One park, GSM, specifically and explicitly states: "Bicycles are prohibited
..on park trails, with four exceptions."
..http://www.cs.utk.edu/~dunigan/mtnbike/rich.html
..
..Pete
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Thu, 27 May 2004 05:11:30 -0400, "Marty" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> > I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where you
..> belong.
..>
..> Ok, ok, we'll call them pavement bikes just for you.
..>
..> Look you tree licking animal shagging hippy, mountain bikes are mountain
..> bikes because they're, (please note hyphenation,) "OFFROAD"
..>
..>
..
..Run out to Walmart. Go to the clue section. Buy several and pass them
..around................
..
..He who must not be named cares not what you think and is immune to the likes
..of you.
..
..Why bother? Of course, like a train wreck, I watch this stuff anyway too.

Yes. Mountain bikers have no self-control whatsoever!

..Marty
..
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:42:10 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .
> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
> .>
> .> National parks are closed to mountain biking.
> .
> .Liar
>
> In general, mational parks are closed to mountain biking. You may have
found the
> regulations on mountain biking.

No. I found specific references to mountain biking being allowed in several
National Parks.

So you admit your blanket statement of "National parks are closed to
mountain biking" is a lie?

Pete

>
> .google for "national park"+"mountain bike" reveals:
> .
> .Haleakala National Park
> .Joshua Tree National Park
> .Zion National Park
> .Great Smoky Mountains National Park
> .Arches National Park
> .
> .All refer to/allow mountain biking in one form or another. There are
others.
> .One park, GSM, specifically and explicitly states: "Bicycles are
prohibited
> .on park trails, with four exceptions."
> .http://www.cs.utk.edu/~dunigan/mtnbike/rich.html
> .
> .Pete
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 26 May 2004 15:14:25 -0400, "Joseph Jozwik" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> .Quick question. I read on your site
> .
> .WARNING: It is probably impossible to understand my web page, if you own
a
> .car.
> .Or a mountain bike.
> .
> .Mike what exactly is your niche market of people you go after?
>
> Honest people. Don't even try.

Don't even try what?
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 26 May 2004 19:36:28 +0100, "Tetsuo Shima"
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> .Hey Mike. You obviously don't have a bike or a car, so how do you get
> .about?
>
> walk, bike, or public transit.

Hmm, bike, funny that. Oh and at a guess, one bus would cause far greater
enviromental damage than a million bikes would. (How many busses, diesel
trains, ships and planes are there?) And you're worried about a few knobbly
tires.

P.S. Cycling on undesignated pavements is illegal. ;)

'nuff said.

> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where you
> > belong.
> >
> > Ok, ok, we'll call them pavement bikes just for you.
> >
> > Look you tree licking animal shagging hippy, mountain bikes are mountain
> > bikes because they're, (please note hyphenation,) "OFFROAD"
> >
> >
>
> Run out to Walmart. Go to the clue section. Buy several and pass them
> around................
>
> He who must not be named cares not what you think and is immune to the
likes
> of you.
>
> Why bother? Of course, like a train wreck, I watch this stuff anyway too.
>
> Marty
>
>
>
Troll?
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 27 May 2004 05:11:30 -0400, "Marty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .
> ."Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .> > I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where
you
> .> belong.
> .>
> .> Ok, ok, we'll call them pavement bikes just for you.
> .>
> .> Look you tree licking animal shagging hippy, mountain bikes are
mountain
> .> bikes because they're, (please note hyphenation,) "OFFROAD"
> .>
> .>
> .
> .Run out to Walmart. Go to the clue section. Buy several and pass them
> .around................
> .
> .He who must not be named cares not what you think and is immune to the
likes
> .of you.
> .
> .Why bother? Of course, like a train wreck, I watch this stuff anyway too.
>
> Yes. Mountain bikers have no self-control whatsoever!
>
I do, my doctor told me to count to 1000 before I smack the **** outta
someone.

> .Marty
> .
> .
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
Mike Vandeman wrote:

> On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:15:36 -0400, S Curtiss <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .>
> .
> ."clipped for protection of the innocent"
> .
> .>
> .> .> Sorry you've had some tough experiences with mountain bikers. Do you think
> .> .> there is any place appropriate for mountain biking?
> .> .>
> .> .> Of course: on paved roads.
> .> .
> .> .Then it isn't mountain biking, it is road biking.
> .>
> .> I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where you belong.
> .>
> .
> .Where "I" belong? Actually, I call it "off road cycling". And I "belong" on legal trail
> .systems, national parks and any area recognized for off road cycling.
>
> National parks are closed to mountain biking.

A search of the National Park Service website for "biking" returned 139 matches.

>
>
> Where you think I
> .belong is irrelevant. Which of these doesn't belong? Mountains, Trees, Animals, Wal-Mart.
> .
> .>
> .> .> That's nonsense. One look at my web site would tell you otherwise. Why do
> .> .> mountain bikers have such a hard time telling the truth???
> .> .
> .> .Really? If not half, then a third is devoted to anti-mt mike propoganda...
> .> .certainly seems extraordinary in comparison...
> .>
> .> ZERO propaganda. Just the truth.

Your truth as you interpret it. Lots of opinion. Propoganda.

>
> .
> .Selective "scientific" information to support opinions is propoganda. Presenting opinion
> .as fact is propoganda. Proclaiming yourself as an authority in an attempt to make your
> .opinions sound important is propoganda. Claiming absolute "truth" is propoganda.
>
> I've never claimed "absolute truth", liar.

Then why is it anyone who disagrees with you is subject to name-calling and ridicule.
"Absolute" means an unwillingness to listen to, or compromise, with differing ideas. You
present your opinion as an absolute.

>
>
> .> .> WHAT hostility? I am just telling the truth -- something I guess you aren't used
> .> .> to. You interpret that as hostility.
> .> .
> .> .No... calling people liars, idiots, stupid, killers.... that is hostility.
> .>
> .> No, it's just honesty.

Your opinion of someone else's intelligenge or integrity does not imply honesty in any way,
shape or form.

>
> .
> .You may honestly disagree with information or points of view. But calling someone "liar"
> .and "idiot" is hostile.
>
> No, it's just the truth.

but when you get an e-mail from someone, calling you the same names, you post it here as being
from "another hostile mt biker". So it is hostile when directed at you, and not when you
direct it at someone else. Mr. "Double Standard" MV strikes again.

>
>
> Simply having different opinions or information from you does not
> .make someone a liar.
>
> Of course. LYING makes you a liar.

No mirrors at home, huh?

>
>
> Stating the differing information or point of view does not make
> .someone an "idiot". Calling them "stupid" for not agreeing with you is not honesty. It is
> .antagonism.
>
> No, it's truth.

again... Your version. Which is so tainted by your opinion it resembles "truth" like a
Wal-Mart resembles a rain forest.

>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom Back