why does a sram derailleur cost $200?



"A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
> > what does it do for $200?

>
> the same things a $14.95 SunRace and a $239 Record do.
>

Agree, today's $15-20 shift as well, if not better than even the old-school
Campy nuovo/super record.

But is there a non-Campy rear der that can shift Campy ergo levers, without
add from something like those jtek devices?
 
Last night I was visiting a friend. Some people in his neighbourhood
are building a 1.5million dollar house. It is 8.000 square feet with a
7.000 square foot hangar. They are only a family of four. I think that
if they own bikes they will have the $200 deraillerus and it won't make
one bitof difference.

I was reading in an old issue of bussiness week that they high priced
bicycle market is the one that is growing the most. There are lots of
profits to be made in bikes above $5000, and lots of bikes being made
in the $6000 to $10000 dollar range. I think that this is actually good
and is giving life to the LBS. The LBSs in El Paso are actually doing
very well.

I was talking to a friend who owns an LBS and he was telling me that
people like us are the worse clients in the world. We buy 1 tire, two
tubes, and maybe a pair of shorts a year,and we complain that they are
too expensive. We do all our repair work, and some of us are still
using the same campy record derailleurs and shifters from 15 yrs ago.
When that one fails, we may go to our junk bin and pull a suntour honor
from our first bike so that we can keep riding.

His market is in the newbies and the wealthier people that will spend
$200 w/o problems in a repair or fancy clothes and thousands in new
bikes. One of his clients has a Merlin with record components. He
needed a new chainring for his cranks, but he said that he didn't like
to have bikes with mixed parts. so, he ordered a new crank for his
merlin and a new colnago c40.

Andres




Tim McNamara wrote:
> Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> >
> >>what does it do for $200?

> >
> >
> > The same thing your $15 cheapo Shimano derailleur does. It just
> > looks prettier while doing it. People will pay more for prettier.

>
> Prettier, lighter *and* cooler than yours are a successful marketing
> combination.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Last night I was visiting a friend. Some people in his neighbourhood
> are building a 1.5million dollar house. It is 8.000 square feet with a
> 7.000 square foot hangar. They are only a family of four. I think that
> if they own bikes they will have the $200 deraillerus and it won't make
> one bitof difference.
>
> I was reading in an old issue of bussiness week that they high priced
> bicycle market is the one that is growing the most. There are lots of
> profits to be made in bikes above $5000, and lots of bikes being made
> in the $6000 to $10000 dollar range. I think that this is actually good
> and is giving life to the LBS. The LBSs in El Paso are actually doing
> very well.
>
> I was talking to a friend who owns an LBS and he was telling me that
> people like us are the worse clients in the world. We buy 1 tire, two
> tubes, and maybe a pair of shorts a year,and we complain that they are
> too expensive. We do all our repair work, and some of us are still
> using the same campy record derailleurs and shifters from 15 yrs ago.
> When that one fails, we may go to our junk bin and pull a suntour honor
> from our first bike so that we can keep riding.
>
> His market is in the newbies and the wealthier people that will spend
> $200 w/o problems in a repair or fancy clothes and thousands in new
> bikes. One of his clients has a Merlin with record components. He
> needed a new chainring for his cranks, but he said that he didn't like
> to have bikes with mixed parts. so, he ordered a new crank for his
> merlin and a new colnago c40.
>
> Andres
>

I recently helped my friend select and buy a *used* bike. This fellow
has plenty of disposable income (works as a VP in a public technology
company), but just didn't understand why bikes should cost over
$350-400. We had a good discussion about it, and pretty much concluded
that bikes in US are in the "luxury market." He cited as evidence that
there was no way the "average" person in China (which is probably now
the primary exporter of bikes, and where there still are more bikes
than cars, even now) would have paid been able to afford $400 for a new
bike. In other words, why the instantaneous mark-up once they get
shipped to these shores?

Prior to this purchase he rode a low-end lead-plumbing Shimano
"Tourney" equipped commuter bike, purchased from Costco, virtual daily
(i.e. weather permitting). It was only retired because the cost to
replace worn components on it exceeded the original cost of the bike.

While I am not extravagant myself, I myself would probably not balk
paying about $1K for a new bike every 5 to 10 yrs. But this guy would
not have done this under any circumstances. Which was why I steered
him toward used bike market.

He bought 10 year old bike, full Deore XT equipped, virtually unused,
as in NOS condition, for slightly over $200. While he appreciates the
mechanical precision of this bike over the older one, I still don't
think he would pay anywhere near $400 for a new bike when the time
comes.

It's just amazing to me the difference in "utilitarian" and
"recreational" marketplace. You look at bike marketing in the US these
days, bikes are really marketed as status symbols, and not as a means
of reliable transportation.

>
>
> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > [email protected] says...
> > >
> > >>what does it do for $200?
> > >
> > >
> > > The same thing your $15 cheapo Shimano derailleur does. It just
> > > looks prettier while doing it. People will pay more for prettier.

> >
> > Prettier, lighter *and* cooler than yours are a successful marketing
> > combination.
 
On 3 Dec 2005 10:44:17 -0800, "damyth" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> He cited as evidence that
>there was no way the "average" person in China (which is probably now
>the primary exporter of bikes, and where there still are more bikes
>than cars, even now) would have paid been able to afford $400 for a new
>bike. In other words, why the instantaneous mark-up once they get
>shipped to these shores?


No markup. They simply don't ride these bikes. Not walmart bikes either.
They ride single-speed bikes with a coaster brake. Without basic bottle
generator lights, even. There's an rbm poster living in China who
regularly reports on her encounters with local bike culture.

The single-speed coaster brake bike is still a lot cheaper there than it
is here, but that's primarily export costs and various taxes.

A walmart style bike with Tourney is *still* marketed as a luxury item,
it's just a crappy one. Like a Russian or Chinese SUV. If you want a true
utility bike, that was designed to be ridden for utility rather tjhan
sport or fun (but relatively upmarket for it), look to 1970s 3-speeds.


Jasper
 
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


> BUT safer places to ride MUST be created to encourage people to ride
> more, more people to ride. If it is downright scary to ride a bicycle,
> like it is in MOST USA places, forgettaboutit, nothing will change,
> and bicycles will continue to be awash with the goofy and idiotic.
>


And there you hit the nail on the head. My morning commute is 9 miles on a
wide bike lane on SR527 from Mill Creek to Bothell, WA, then another 9
miles on the Sammammish River Trail to Redmond. Bicycling mag has called
this one of the most cycling-friendly areas in the country.

Last month, I was back in my hometown of Spokane, and had my bike along. I
rode the 4 miles to Grandma's house and was terrified. The wide shoulders,
designated lanes and multi-use trails I've gotten so used to here were
nowhere to be seen. Just lots of drivers who don't know how to handle
sharing a road that's too narrow.

And back here, that's why it doesn't surprise me to see Dura-Ace equipped
bikes locked up next to Bike-Shaped-Objects with Tourney. Riders are happy
to see other people riding.
 
On 3 Dec 2005 09:14:21 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>
>[email protected] wrote:
>> what does it do for $200?

>
>So the makers can buy lots of beer.


The purveyors of such fine mercantile goods as the $200 (if you had to
ask the price, you couldn't afford it) rear der would, I expect,
disdain the more plebian lager; no doubt they partake of the finer
vintages of wines, and select distilled spirits. If they sell enough
of those ders, they will certainly be able to afford such tastes,
anyway. Meanwhile, the buyers are largely left wondering which is the
better bargain; the $200 der and a couple of dry weeks, or the $15 der
and a modicum of cheer to go with it. My bet is that the latter
choice will prevail more often than the former.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
bfd wrote:
> "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > > what does it do for $200?

> >
> > the same things a $14.95 SunRace and a $239 Record do.
> >

> Agree, today's $15-20 shift as well, if not better than even the old-school
> Campy nuovo/super record.
>
> But is there a non-Campy rear der that can shift Campy ergo levers, without
> add from something like those jtek devices?


Not all Campagnolo rear derailleurs are $200, ya know. Mirage is Veloce
in black. Veloce is Centaur w/o a alloy b limit plate, etc...
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:

> D'ohBoy wrote:
>
> > Just 'cuz you like to smoke one now and then doesn't make you gay.
> > Relax.

>
> Much like the doctor who performed your circumcision, you over-snipped yet
> again.
>
> Smoochies, BS


ROTFLMAO!

Thanks Billy!

Made my day!

HAND
 
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> bfd wrote:
> > "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > [email protected] wrote:
> > > > what does it do for $200?
> > >
> > > the same things a $14.95 SunRace and a $239 Record do.
> > >

> > Agree, today's $15-20 shift as well, if not better than even the

old-school
> > Campy nuovo/super record.
> >
> > But is there a non-Campy rear der that can shift Campy ergo levers,

without
> > add from something like those jtek devices?

>
> Not all Campagnolo rear derailleurs are $200, ya know. Mirage is Veloce
> in black. Veloce is Centaur w/o a alloy b limit plate, etc...
>

Agree, Campy Mirage, Voloce and Centaur will do the job as well as the $250+
Campy Record. But the question remains, is there a $15-20 or so rear der
being offered that will shift Campy ergo levers WITHOUT using something like
a jtek device?
 
Group: rec.bicycles.tech Date: Fri, Dec 2, 2005, 9:28am (EST-3) From:
[email protected]

>what does it do for $200?


Makes dumb people pay far too much for a derailer, that's what it does.

- -

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
 
"bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

..
>>

> Agree, Campy Mirage, Voloce and Centaur will do the job as well as the
> $250+ Campy Record. But the question remains, is there a $15-20 or so
> rear der being offered that will shift Campy ergo levers WITHOUT using
> something like a jtek device?
>
>

Yes. Any 8-speed Shimano derailleur/cassette combo (except DA) will work
perfectly with 10-speed Ergos, since both systems have the same cable pull
rates.

Sounds like any Sora setup to me.
 
"Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> .
> >>

> > Agree, Campy Mirage, Voloce and Centaur will do the job as well as the
> > $250+ Campy Record. But the question remains, is there a $15-20 or so
> > rear der being offered that will shift Campy ergo levers WITHOUT using
> > something like a jtek device?
> >
> >

> Yes. Any 8-speed Shimano derailleur/cassette combo (except DA) will work
> perfectly with 10-speed Ergos, since both systems have the same cable

pull
> rates.
>
> Sounds like any Sora setup to me.


OK, it sound like Campy 10 ergo levers will shift 8 speed Shimano cassettes
using 8 speed rear der.

However, are there any $15-20 rear ders available that will shift Campy ergo
levers over 10 cassette? After all, who really uses 8 gears anymore? Let's
face, it 10 speed rear cassette is IN. If you ain't got 10, you're behind!

btw, I'm still using 9 speed and my Campy 9 ergo levers shifts Shimano 9
cassette very nicely, thank you.....
 
"bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:D[email protected]:

>
> "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> .
>> >>
>> > Agree, Campy Mirage, Voloce and Centaur will do the job as well as
>> > the $250+ Campy Record. But the question remains, is there a $15-20
>> > or so rear der being offered that will shift Campy ergo levers
>> > WITHOUT using something like a jtek device?
>> >
>> >

>> Yes. Any 8-speed Shimano derailleur/cassette combo (except DA) will
>> work perfectly with 10-speed Ergos, since both systems have the same
>> cable

> pull
>> rates.
>>
>> Sounds like any Sora setup to me.

>
> OK, it sound like Campy 10 ergo levers will shift 8 speed Shimano
> cassettes using 8 speed rear der.
>
> However, are there any $15-20 rear ders available that will shift
> Campy ergo levers over 10 cassette? After all, who really uses 8 gears
> anymore? Let's face, it 10 speed rear cassette is IN. If you ain't
> got 10, you're behind!
>
> btw, I'm still using 9 speed and my Campy 9 ergo levers shifts Shimano
> 9 cassette very nicely, thank you.....
>
>
>


Let me get this straight...you're willing to pay the nearly 2x price
premium for a 10s cassette and chain, at least $150 for 10s Ergos, and
you want to mate it with a $20 rear mech, AND you're too cheap to spring
for a shiftmate?

OK, then the answer is no.
 
Hank Wirtz wrote:
> "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:D[email protected]:
>
> >
> > "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >> .
> >> >>
> >> > Agree, Campy Mirage, Voloce and Centaur will do the job as well as
> >> > the $250+ Campy Record. But the question remains, is there a $15-20
> >> > or so rear der being offered that will shift Campy ergo levers
> >> > WITHOUT using something like a jtek device?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Yes. Any 8-speed Shimano derailleur/cassette combo (except DA) will
> >> work perfectly with 10-speed Ergos, since both systems have the same
> >> cable

> > pull
> >> rates.
> >>
> >> Sounds like any Sora setup to me.

> >
> > OK, it sound like Campy 10 ergo levers will shift 8 speed Shimano
> > cassettes using 8 speed rear der.
> >
> > However, are there any $15-20 rear ders available that will shift
> > Campy ergo levers over 10 cassette? After all, who really uses 8 gears
> > anymore? Let's face, it 10 speed rear cassette is IN. If you ain't
> > got 10, you're behind!
> >
> > btw, I'm still using 9 speed and my Campy 9 ergo levers shifts Shimano
> > 9 cassette very nicely, thank you.....
> >
> >
> >

>
> Let me get this straight...you're willing to pay the nearly 2x price
> premium for a 10s cassette and chain, at least $150 for 10s Ergos, and
> you want to mate it with a $20 rear mech, AND you're too cheap to spring
> for a shiftmate?
>
> OK, then the answer is no.


Wow, is the price premium on 10s really as much as 2x over 9s?
(Sincere question, just haven't checked lately.) I know I got a 9s
Shimano HG-50 cassette recently via mail order for around $15. I know
there was no way I could have gotten a Campy cassette (9 or 10s)
anywhere near that price. Are Campy 9s cassettes still available?

$150 for 10s Ergos is cheap in comparison for Shimano brifters. I
don't think you can get Shimano 10s brifters for <$200. That's why
Ergos are so appealing to bottom feeders like bfd. :)

I still think total cost of ownership for Campy 10s, no matter how you
slice and dice, is probably going to be higher than Shimano 10s. It's
almost as if Campy is selling the brifters as loss leaders to entice
people to buy into their more expensive drivetrain.
 
Hank Wirtz wrote:
> "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:D[email protected]:
>
> >
> > "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >> .
> >> >>
> >> > Agree, Campy Mirage, Voloce and Centaur will do the job as well as
> >> > the $250+ Campy Record. But the question remains, is there a $15-20
> >> > or so rear der being offered that will shift Campy ergo levers
> >> > WITHOUT using something like a jtek device?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Yes. Any 8-speed Shimano derailleur/cassette combo (except DA) will
> >> work perfectly with 10-speed Ergos, since both systems have the same
> >> cable

> > pull
> >> rates.
> >>
> >> Sounds like any Sora setup to me.

> >
> > OK, it sound like Campy 10 ergo levers will shift 8 speed Shimano
> > cassettes using 8 speed rear der.
> >
> > However, are there any $15-20 rear ders available that will shift
> > Campy ergo levers over 10 cassette? After all, who really uses 8 gears
> > anymore? Let's face, it 10 speed rear cassette is IN. If you ain't
> > got 10, you're behind!
> >
> > btw, I'm still using 9 speed and my Campy 9 ergo levers shifts Shimano
> > 9 cassette very nicely, thank you.....
> >
> >
> >

>
> Let me get this straight...you're willing to pay the nearly 2x price
> premium for a 10s cassette and chain, at least $150 for 10s Ergos, and
> you want to mate it with a $20 rear mech, AND you're too cheap to spring
> for a shiftmate?
>
> OK, then the answer is no.


Wow, is the price premium on 10s really as much as 2x over 9s?
(Sincere question, just haven't checked lately.) I know I got a 9s
Shimano HG-50 cassette recently via mail order for around $15. I know
there was no way I could have gotten a Campy cassette (9 or 10s)
anywhere near that price. Are Campy 9s cassettes still available?

$150 for 10s Ergos is cheap in comparison for Shimano brifters. I
don't think you can get Shimano 10s brifters for <$200. That's why
Ergos are so appealing to bottom feeders like bfd. :)

I still think total cost of ownership for Campy 10s, no matter how you
slice and dice, is probably going to be higher than Shimano 10s. It's
almost as if Campy is selling the brifters as loss leaders to entice
people to buy into their more expensive drivetrain.
 
"damyth" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


>
> Wow, is the price premium on 10s really as much as 2x over 9s?
> (Sincere question, just haven't checked lately.) I know I got a 9s
> Shimano HG-50 cassette recently via mail order for around $15. I know
> there was no way I could have gotten a Campy cassette (9 or 10s)
> anywhere near that price. Are Campy 9s cassettes still available?


Cheapest 10s cassette I could find was $65 for the new 105. Veloce 10s
is around $90. You say you got a Shimano 9s for $15. Campy 9s starts
around $35. 10s chains start around $30, as opposed to $12 for 9s. So
yeah, it's roughly a 2x ratio.


>
> $150 for 10s Ergos is cheap in comparison for Shimano brifters. I
> don't think you can get Shimano 10s brifters for <$200. That's why
> Ergos are so appealing to bottom feeders like bfd. :)
>
> I still think total cost of ownership for Campy 10s, no matter how you
> slice and dice, is probably going to be higher than Shimano 10s. It's
> almost as if Campy is selling the brifters as loss leaders to entice
> people to buy into their more expensive drivetrain.
>


Of course, the same could be said for Shimano cassettes.

FWIW, at totalcycling.com, you can get Veloce 10s ergos, rear mech,
chain and a Miche campy-compatible cassette for about $300 shipped. The
105 9-speed mech goes for about the same price, but the brifters are
about $75 more, and the chain and cassette are each about $15 less.

I know which I'd choose.
 
"Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:D[email protected]:
>
> >
>> Let me get this straight...you're willing to pay the nearly 2x price

> premium for a 10s cassette and chain, at least $150 for 10s Ergos, and
> you want to mate it with a $20 rear mech, AND you're too cheap to spring
> for a shiftmate?
>
> OK, then the answer is no.


That right. The original issue was whether a $200 Sram rear der was better
than a $15-20 shimano. The answer was no, unless you really had to have the
lighter weight. Then someone compared a $250 Record to a $20 Shimano and
asked whether it was better.. I asked about whether there was a $15-20 rear
der avaiable for Campy ergo shifters.

I agree that 10 cassettes and chains are outrageous. That's why I still use
9 speed. I can get Campy 9 cassettes for $40-50 range. Similarly, I use a
12x27 ultegra cassette, which I can get for about $40. And no, those other
$15 Shimano 9 cassettes don't come in 12-27.

As for Ergo 10, since I already have ergo 9 levers, it would only cost about
$25-30 to replace the shift disc with a 10 speed one and I would have ergo
10 levers.