Yet another derisory fine for killing a cyclist...

[Andy Leighton]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:08:52 +0100,
Jon Senior <jon@restless_REMOVE_lemon.co.uk> wrote:
> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]>
> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> >I don't see a downside to this.
>>
>> I don't see any problem with making it very plain that he
>> is a criminal - the attempts of careless drivers to
>> pretend that motoring offences are civil not criminal
>> (which they are not) are well-known, after all.
>
> OK.
>
>> But I think that community service orders may be more
>> appropriate in this case. Carl Baxter should be locked up
>> until he forgets what the sky looks like, but this kid
>> should pay his debt to society in a more tangible way.
>
> That seems more like it. If you want to look at it in
> purely financial terms, it costs society money to lock him
> up, but society can gain by making him do community
> service.

This could be a good case for using tagging, and this
restrict his freedom by not letting him leave his house
during the evening. I am not saying the community service
isn't a good idea, it is, but that tagging may make it
easier for him to realise how lucky he has been in avoiding
serious prison time.

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected] "The Lord is my
shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

 

[Ian G Batten]

In article <[email protected]>,
Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:
> The Tony Martin case is a very dangerous precedent. We
> have always had the right to use reasonable force, but
> never had the right to arm ourselves and lie in wait, nor
> to shoot people in the back. Quite why

And the gun was illegally held. That makes a huge
difference, too. I have a somewhat uncompromising book,
which is published I believe in fifty editions for the fifty
states and their different laws, called ``How to own a gun
in California and stay out of jail''. California doesn't
have Texas' relaxed views on gun ownership (essentially no
concealed carry, for example) it's certainly not the
peoples' republic of MA either.

Martin would probably have gone to jail in California, even
had the gun been legally held, and the public would not have
regarded this as anything other than just. With an illegal
gun (say one that transgressed the assault weapon rules) it
would be serious, probably Federa, time. And again, no one
would care.

ian

 

[Daniel Barlow]

"Jon Senior" <jon@restless_REMOVE_lemon.co.uk> writes:

> him do community service. And regarding a comment by
> David, I think that his advanced driving schooling and
> test should have been compulsory before he was allowed to
> drive again, and thus at the end of his ban, rather than
> the start.

According to the newspaper report at the top of this thread,
he "had since gone to motoring school and passed the Pass
Plus Scheme".

http://www.passplus.org.uk/new_index.asp describes Pass Plus
as six lessons for newly qualified drivers to take just
after getting their licence, with "no test to take at the
end of it". This is not what I'd describe as "advanced
driving schooling and test"

Mind you, in thirty minutes of London commuting every day I
see at least two or three manoeuvres which would fail the
/standard/ driving test, so, well, I don't know what to
think really. Annual retests, perhaps.

-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before
you confirm"

 

[Ian W]

On 2004-03-29 03:34:37 +0100, Daniel Barlow <[email protected]> said:
> so, well, I don't know what to think really. Annual
> retests, perhaps.
>
> -dan

Any sort of retest would be better. As it is you can pass
your test* at 17 and then not drive for over 50 years before
getting into a Ferrari and going wherever you like. Madness.

* By 'pass your test', I of course mean this in the British
sense of "drive for 40 minutes with extreme care and if
you don't muck up really badly you are declared a
competent driver"
--
www.drianwalker.com

Remove the nice brown paste in my signature if you
want to reply!

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:11:33 +0100, "Jon Senior"
<jon@restless_REMOVE_lemon.co.uk> wrote (more or less):

>"David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> I suspect that his mates will reinforce his offending.
>> "It wasn't your fault, it was an accident. Could have
>> happened to anybody."
>
>I think that you underestimate the power of being a killer
>to override peer pressure. What they say is not as relevant
>as what he feels. From experiences at school when people
>were learning to drive, I remember the impact that a driving-
>related death had on the school as a whole, and also on the
>driving habits of other students.

Moods are often transient. Especially if not given
reinforcement by a peer group.

If he continues to feel he did wrong, but he spends time
with a peer group who think it no big deal, both
reinforcement and cognitive dissonanvce will tend to change
his feelings, rather than the groups.

Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122 Smalltalk
links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:25:40 +0100, "Jon Senior"
<jon@restless_REMOVE_lemon.co.uk> wrote (more or less):

>"Mark Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote
>in message news:[email protected]
>2.193.157...
>> <snippity everything re: motorist will kill to get to
>> work on time>
>>
>> Apart from the trying to kill bit, you all more or less
>> agree with each
>other so just admit it!
>
>But Euan and I have locked horns earlier in a different
>thread, which means he is now predisposed to disagree
>with me. ;-)

I think it's more that you and I have different views on the
responsibilities of drivers wrt the risks their thoughtless
behaviours can needlessly pose to other road-users, so when
related subjects crop up, we tend to disagree.

</pedantry>

;-)

Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122 Smalltalk
links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:25:40 +0100, "Jon Senior"
<jon@restless_REMOVE_lemon.co.uk> wrote (more or less):
>And I'm still waiting for details of the fourth order
>polynomial equation that relates risk of fatality to speed,
>and in which circumstances it is valid.

It got raised earlier in the thread in which you asked for
it.

So I'm feeling free to let you do the googling yourself.

Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122 Smalltalk
links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

 

[Just Zis Guy]

"Jon Senior" <jon@restless_REMOVE_lemon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> And I'm still waiting for details of the fourth order
> polynomial equation that relates risk of fatality to
> speed, and in which circumstances it is valid.

Then you are a lazy giot, because not only was the name of
the researcher cited, a report of the research itself is
linked from my website ;-)

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University