ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF



H

hizark21

Guest
ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).

It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
 
hizark21 wrote:
> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

The spots are all filled. Who would the ASO kick out to make space for
Astana, and what excuse would they get?

Be realistic.
 
hizark21 wrote:
>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter the
>> TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana to
>> meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring team
>> now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

Kyle Legate wrote:
> The spots are all filled. Who would the ASO kick out to make space for
> Astana, and what excuse would they get?

They could always engineer a positive test if a certain laboratory is
going to be doing the testing.
 
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:56:58 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <[email protected]>
wrote:

>ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
>news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
>It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
>team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
fact, it would probably hurt.
 
On Jun 3, 11:56 pm, hizark21 <[email protected]> wrote:
> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> the TDF.  The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

Altho weird, as long as Bruyneel and Contador(true yellow jersey
contender but cloudy relationship with Operation Puerto, true or not)
are with Astana, ASO isn't going to let them in. ASO doesn't like
Bruyneel and the last thing ASO wants is another doping scandal with
the yellow jersey.
 
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:56:58 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
>> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>>
>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
>> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
> They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
> It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
> into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
> fact, it would probably hurt.

Indeed. Astana has ****** in the Tour's soup twice now.
They've earned this.

Bob Schwartz
 
On Jun 4, 4:36 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 3, 11:56 pm, hizark21 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> > news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> > It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> > the TDF.  The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> > to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> > team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> Altho weird, as long as Bruyneel and Contador(true yellow jersey
> contender but cloudy relationship with Operation Puerto, true or not)
> are with Astana, ASO isn't going to let them in. ASO doesn't like
> Bruyneel and the last thing ASO wants is another doping scandal with
> the yellow jersey.

This seems like clear case of guilt by association as opposed to
actual evidence. Guilt by association has been very destructive to
cycling. It's clear to me now that the UCI needs to act now and
reasassert it's governing role.
 
On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:22:50 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>This seems like clear case of guilt by association as opposed to
>actual evidence. Guilt by association has been very destructive to
>cycling. It's clear to me now that the UCI needs to act now and
>reasassert it's governing role.

What does the UCI have to do with the Tour of France?
 
hizark21 wrote:
> This seems like clear case of guilt by association as opposed to
> actual evidence. Guilt by association has been very destructive to
> cycling. It's clear to me now that the UCI needs to act now and
> reasassert it's governing role.

Are you referring to the team that got a second chance
last year and responded by pissing in the soup again?
Oh yeah, this is a different team from last year.

I think ASO has made it clear that Astana can establish
that it is a different team by not pissing in anyone's
soup.

Bob Schwartz
 
Bob Schwartz wrote:
> I think ASO has made it clear that Astana can establish that it is a
> different team by not pissing in anyone's soup.

Pea soup ?
 
On Jun 4, 7:56 am, hizark21 <[email protected]> wrote:
> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> the TDF.  The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

I would assume that ASO would argue that the good showing of Astana
proves that they're doping. That's the type of reasoning you're seeing
from the ASO management.

Any argument about Astana ticking ASO off is specious, as Astana has
the right to participate, as a pro tour team. Even before the Pro
Tour, the top 15 rated teams were guaranteed a spot in the Tour de
France. Just another reason why the UCI is a necessary evil.

-ilan
 
Dans le message de
news:ec3efae8-3f57-4d72-ad21-73c3bc999012@g16g2000pri.googlegroups.com,
hizark21 <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On Jun 4, 4:36 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 11:56 pm, hizark21 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
>>> (http://www.cyclingnews.com/ news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news
>>> ).
>>
>>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>>> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>>> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant
>>> spring team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>>
>> Altho weird, as long as Bruyneel and Contador(true yellow jersey
>> contender but cloudy relationship with Operation Puerto, true or not)
>> are with Astana, ASO isn't going to let them in. ASO doesn't like
>> Bruyneel and the last thing ASO wants is another doping scandal with
>> the yellow jersey.
>
> This seems like clear case of guilt by association as opposed to
> actual evidence. Guilt by association has been very destructive to
> cycling. It's clear to me now that the UCI needs to act now and
> reasassert it's governing role.

There's no reason for ASO to do differently from sponsors, like Festina,
T-Mobile and Phonak. It's a commercial decision, not a criminal proceeding.
You could also call it prudence.

What has me more excited [sardonic smile] is the lack of doping in the
cleanest of the majors - the Giro. My goodness, have those Italians got it
right! Just a case of one horny dude and a toothpaste tube.[back to neutral]
--
The problem with people who have
no vices is that generally you can
be pretty sure they're going to have
some pretty annoying virtues.
- Elizabeth Taylor
 
>> I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
>> They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
>> It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
>> into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
>> fact, it would probably hurt.
>
> Indeed. Astana has ****** in the Tour's soup twice now.
> They've earned this.

And yet some believe that was possibly the cleanest Giro in a very long
time, specifically because Astana was there, which put everything under a
microscope.

The ASO just isn't making sense. Not so much in the exclusion of Astana, but
rather their atttitude about positive doping tests. They still consider it a
failure when they find someone testing positive, instead of evidence that
they can find and punish those doping. What was that latest thing they were
saying? That they're going to specifically target certain athletes because
of what happened last year, instead of randomized controls? I don't get it.
The randomized controls found Rasmussen didn't they? And Vino? And
Keschekin? But the fact that those guys were doping and caught is an
indication that doping controls aren't working?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:56:58 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
>>> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>>>
>>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>>> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>>> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
>>> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>>
>> I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
>> They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
>> It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
>> into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
>> fact, it would probably hurt.
>
> Indeed. Astana has ****** in the Tour's soup twice now.
> They've earned this.
>
> Bob Schwartz
>
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> The randomized controls found Rasmussen didn't
> they?

No.
 
On Jun 4, 10:28 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jun 4, 7:56 am, hizark21 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> > news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> > It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> > the TDF.  The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> > to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> > team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> I would assume that ASO would argue that the good showing of Astana
> proves that they're doping. That's the type of reasoning you're seeing
> from the ASO management.

Well, they were on vacation a week before the start and came there and
kicked ass..'if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck'. Bruyneel and
Contador is the problem, Astana has nothing to do with it. Vino was
never a contender.

>
> Any argument about Astana ticking ASO off is specious, as Astana has
> the right to participate, as a pro tour team. Even before the Pro
> Tour, the top 15 rated teams were guaranteed a spot in the Tour de
> France. Just another reason why the UCI is a necessary evil.
>
> -ilan
 
On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:09:22 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The randomized controls found Rasmussen didn't they?

No.
 
On Jun 4, 1:36 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 3, 11:56 pm, hizark21 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> > news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> > It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> > the TDF.  The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> > to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> > team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> Altho weird, as long as Bruyneel and Contador(true yellow jersey
> contender but cloudy relationship with Operation Puerto, true or not)
> are with Astana, ASO isn't going to let them in. ASO doesn't like
> Bruyneel and the last thing ASO wants is another doping scandal with
> the yellow jersey.

No, with Contador and Bruyneel, the thing that worries ASO is another
string of 7 consecutive victories.

-ilan
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> saying? That they're going to specifically target certain athletes because
> of what happened last year, instead of randomized controls? I don't get it.
> The randomized controls found Rasmussen didn't they? And Vino? And
> Keschekin? But the fact that those guys were doping and caught is an
> indication that doping controls aren't working?
>
After Vino's positive, I highly doubt that Kaschekin's test was 'random'.
 
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> The randomized controls found Rasmussen didn't
>> they?
>
> No.

My bad, I know that. Rasmussen was kicked out due to his phony whereabouts.
Doh.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
 
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