Setmana-Catalana isn't Redlands

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by MagillaGorilla, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. Final general classification

    1 Alberto Contador (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 17.15.58
    2 David Bernabeu (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana 0.36
    3 Peio Arreitunandia (Spa) Team Barloworld-Valsir 0.39
    4 Tom Danielson (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 1.00
    5 Koldo Gil (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 1.03

    <snip>

    16 Chris Horner (USA) Saunier Duval-Prodir 4.16
     
    Tags:


  2. Ed Sullivan

    Ed Sullivan Guest

    MagillaGorilla wrote:
    > Final general classification
    >
    > 1 Alberto Contador (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team

    17.15.58
    > 2 David Bernabeu (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana

    0.36
    > 3 Peio Arreitunandia (Spa) Team Barloworld-Valsir

    0.39
    > 4 Tom Danielson (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team

    1.00
    > 5 Koldo Gil (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team

    1.03
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > 16 Chris Horner (USA) Saunier Duval-Prodir

    4.16


    Monkey boy,

    My god, you're right. They have different names, they are staged in
    different counties, and are contested by different riders. Thanks for
    clearing up the confusion!!


    Your pal,
    Ed
     
  3. Andrew Karre

    Andrew Karre Guest

    To be fair, that's not exactly indicative of his week. He had a couple
    top tens earlier, and, if I recall the Velonews spin, one near win
    (whatever that means).

    Andrew
     
  4. On 03/25/2005 06:06 PM, in article z0ednQ2NWIETKNnfUSdV9g@ptd.net,
    "MagillaGorilla" <MagillaGorilla@zoo.com> wrote:


    > I'm only going to acknowledge pros winning big races. The rest simply
    > don't matter despite all you barebacks thinking it does.




    Just so we know, which races count? Obviously, being in the ProTour doesn't
    count, based on comments made about Paris-Nice.

    And we all know that the Giro and Vuelta don't count, because one is just a
    warm-up to the Tour, whereas the other is a consolation prize.

    I just want to know for sure, so I can tune out and only come back when it
    really matters.



    --
    Steven L. Sheffield
    stevens at veloworks dot com
    bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
    ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
    aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
    double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash
     
  5. Everybody knows there's only one race that matters - and it cost me my
    life.
    -lln

    Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
    > On 03/25/2005 06:06 PM, in article z0ednQ2NWIETKNnfUSdV9g@ptd.net,
    > "MagillaGorilla" <MagillaGorilla@zoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    > > I'm only going to acknowledge pros winning big races. The rest

    simply
    > > don't matter despite all you barebacks thinking it does.

    >
    >
    >
    > Just so we know, which races count? Obviously, being in the ProTour

    doesn't
    > count, based on comments made about Paris-Nice.
    >
    > And we all know that the Giro and Vuelta don't count, because one is

    just a
    > warm-up to the Tour, whereas the other is a consolation prize.
    >
    > I just want to know for sure, so I can tune out and only come back

    when it
    > really matters.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Steven L. Sheffield
    > stevens at veloworks dot com
    > bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
    > ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
    > aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
    > double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash
     
  6. DA74

    DA74 Guest

    MagillaGorilla wrote:
    > Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
    >
    > > Just so we know, which races count? Obviously, being in the

    ProTour doesn't
    > > count, based on comments made about Paris-Nice.
    > >
    > > I just want to know for sure, so I can tune out and only come back

    when it
    > > really matters.

    >
    >
    > No problem, Steven. Here's how it works. I'll let you know when
    > winning a race matters.



    Okay you frothy faced race fans. Here we go again. I'm going to
    supplement the Gorilla's teachings here and drop a little more
    knowledge on you so you can impress your Assos wearing chums on the
    group ride tomorrow:

    95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
    they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes. No
    one is sitting around spunking all over the race bible to see where
    they are going to launch their winning move. They simply show up to
    the race, clock in, race their bike and clock out. It's a job - simple
    as that. I know this disappoints you but they care far less than you
    do.

    You also need to know that these guys don't have "training programs"
    like Charmichael's clones give you for $250 a month. They use these
    races as training. They don't sit around staring at their SRMs either.
    If they have them they were preinstalled on the bike and they have no
    clue what all those crazy numbers mean. In bike racing you're either
    twiddling along, going hard, or going really hard. Simple as that. As
    much as these coaches want to convince you otherwise this ain't rocket
    science. The pros know it. Spunk-chinned fatties will never
    understand.
    -DA74, waiting for my $250 from you
     
  7. DA74 wrote:
    > 95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
    > they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes.


    So first, to impress us with your "Pro" cred, you mention that you've
    been is such "prestegious" races as TdG, USPro, and the SFGP. But not
    one of those races would seroiusly be considered in the top five
    percent of Euro races. So, by your own description, you don't do real
    races but glorified training rides, right? So help me out here....since
    you only do races that don't matter, does that you you a pro, or a
    soon-to-be fattie master in denial?
     
  8. <tvphotog@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:1111867584.015984.20520@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > DA74 wrote:
    > > 95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
    > > they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes.

    >
    > So first, to impress us with your "Pro" cred, you mention that you've
    > been is such "prestegious" races as TdG, USPro, and the SFGP. But not
    > one of those races would seroiusly be considered in the top five
    > percent of Euro races. So, by your own description, you don't do real
    > races but glorified training rides, right? So help me out here....since
    > you only do races that don't matter, does that you you a pro, or a
    > soon-to-be fattie master in denial?
    >


    Not to mention that there are only about 20, some might say less, riders in
    the Tour with their primary focus on gc placings. Hell some teams go into it
    knowing they don't have a gc contender.

    Doesn't say much for your view of the sport in a positive way, does it?
     
  9. tvphotog@earthlink.net wrote:

    > DA74 wrote:
    >
    >>95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
    >>they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes.

    >
    >
    > So first, to impress us with your "Pro" cred, you mention that you've
    > been is such "prestegious" races as TdG, USPro, and the SFGP. But not
    > one of those races would seroiusly be considered in the top five
    > percent of Euro races. So, by your own description, you don't do real
    > races but glorified training rides, right? So help me out here....since
    > you only do races that don't matter, does that you you a pro, or a
    > soon-to-be fattie master in denial?
    >


    Dear CBS employee who posts to RBR on company time,

    Those are quality US races - everyone who shows up is there to win with
    few exceptions (i.e. Vino and Pink at San Fran). Not even Lance could
    win any of them unless he brought his A game.

    Those races are important in the US and to US sponsors.


    Thanks,


    Magilla
     
  10. "MagillaGorilla" <MagillaGorilla@zoo.com> wrote in message
    >
    > Dear CBS employee who posts to RBR on company time,


    With maturity comes discretion and more freedom.


    >
    > Those are quality US races - everyone who shows up is there to win with
    > few exceptions (i.e. Vino and Pink at San Fran). Not even Lance could
    > win any of them unless he brought his A game.
    >


    LOL

    > Those races are important in the US and to US sponsors.
    >


    So 95% of the Euro races don't matter, but all the big US races do 'cuz you
    show up at the start line?
     
  11. Bret Wade

    Bret Wade Guest

    DA74 wrote:

    > 95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win but
    > they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes. No
    > one is sitting around spunking all over the race bible to see where
    > they are going to launch their winning move. They simply show up to
    > the race, clock in, race their bike and clock out. It's a job - simple
    > as that. I know this disappoints you but they care far less than you
    > do.


    This is not believable. Only a very well established rider could afford
    to focus on just the top 5% of the races. Someone who's never won at the
    pro level will want that win badly where ever they can get it. Someone
    not assured of making their team's TDF or Giro roster will be motivated
    to show that they're worthy. The teams need to rack up race wins and the
    exposure that goes with it for their sponsors. They also need to win to
    gain entry at the top races. There's a wide variety of motivations
    involved and more than enough to make the 2nd tier races interesting. A
    win is a win and the more of them the better the better.

    Bret
     
  12. Carl Sundquist wrote:

    > "MagillaGorilla" <MagillaGorilla@zoo.com> wrote in message
    >
    >>Dear CBS employee who posts to RBR on company time,

    >
    >
    > With maturity comes discretion and more freedom.
    >
    >
    >
    >>Those are quality US races - everyone who shows up is there to win with
    >>few exceptions (i.e. Vino and Pink at San Fran). Not even Lance could
    >>win any of them unless he brought his A game.
    >>

    >
    >
    > LOL
    >
    >
    >>Those races are important in the US and to US sponsors.
    >>

    >
    >
    > So 95% of the Euro races don't matter, but all the big US races do 'cuz you
    > show up at the start line?


    Carl,

    There's only like 5 or 6 US races that matter. The rest are just a time
    clock stamps. Yes, they are better than 95% of the Euro races.

    Magilla
     
  13. "Bret Wade" <bret.wade@xilinx.com> wrote in message
    >
    > This is not believable. Only a very well established rider could afford
    > to focus on just the top 5% of the races. Someone who's never won at the
    > pro level will want that win badly where ever they can get it. Someone
    > not assured of making their team's TDF or Giro roster will be motivated
    > to show that they're worthy. The teams need to rack up race wins and the
    > exposure that goes with it for their sponsors. They also need to win to
    > gain entry at the top races. There's a wide variety of motivations
    > involved and more than enough to make the 2nd tier races interesting. A
    > win is a win and the more of them the better the better.
    >
    > Bret


    No Bret, DA74 must be right. Look at the graph.

    http://netscan.research.microsoft.c...2004&NGID=26901&searchfor=rec.bicycles.racing
     
  14. DA74

    DA74 Guest

    tvphotog@earthlink.net wrote:
    > DA74 wrote:
    > > 95% of Euro races don't matter. Yes, the teams would like to win

    but
    > > they're training races. That's it. Training rides with prizes.

    >
    > So first, to impress us with your "Pro" cred, you mention that you've
    > been is such "prestegious" races as TdG, USPro, and the SFGP. But not
    > one of those races would seroiusly be considered in the top five
    > percent of Euro races.


    CBS Gopher & Fellow Posters,
    I'm feeling charitable so we'll go on to lesson two. I was very clear
    and precise when I said "Euro races". The US domestic scene
    essentially exists in a vacuum so comparing the two is impossible,
    futile and in the end just another excuse for the fatties to stop
    during the Sunday group ride and chat for half and hour under the guise
    of filling up water bottles.

    In the heirarchy of Pro Cycling, Europe is and will always be the mecca
    with the US being next, but nothing more than a breeding ground and
    red-headed step-child, followed a long way down by Australia. If
    you're really spunked out about racing and need to go deeper you could
    argue for Central / South America and then Japan. If you really really
    need a comparison, I think even Subway would dominate in Japan but they
    certainly don't have the hematocrit or inclination to compete with the
    C/S American contingent.

    All that aside, on the US scene the non-industry sponsors want to see
    you sell the farm for TdG, USPRO and SFGP and maybe a couple others.
    that's why those races are so crazy hard. But that's it. The sponsors
    don't even know where you are for the rest of the year. You could
    party with Decanio and the fashionista in Florida all year as long as
    you show up to the biggies. Industry sponsors want you at
    everything...hell, they'll slap up results from the Tuesday night crits
    if you let them.
     
  15. DA74

    DA74 Guest

    Bret Wade wrote:
    > DA74 wrote:
    >
    > > 95% of Euro races don't matter.


    > This is not believable. Only a very well established rider could

    afford
    > to focus on just the top 5% of the races. Someone who's never won at

    the
    > pro level will want that win badly where ever they can get it.

    Someone
    > not assured of making their team's TDF or Giro roster will be

    motivated
    > to show that they're worthy.



    Bret,
    You're green, possibly fat but more likely a budding, spunk-faced race
    fan...and you haven't earned my ire yet so here's a free pass - listen
    up.

    First of all you need to remember that cycling is a team sport. It's
    not like everyone on a team is a GC man. Most are workers. When I say
    that, I'm serious, they're like Detroit autoworkers clocking in at the
    plant in Flint or wherever. The Lances and the Jans are the CEOs and
    board of directors. They don't even hang out. Hell, some of the
    grunts don't even talk to the big dogs (or actually it's the other way
    around).

    You see how I said 95% of the Euro races are training races? Well 90%
    of the peloton also know they don't have the talent to win - so most of
    the time they don't even try - which is not to say they won't get
    lucky. They'll try really hard to chase down breaks and get a bunch of
    water bottles to make themselves valuable to management and the riders
    that matter. They do their jobs - and their jobs have nothing to do
    with crossing the line first or tenth for that matter.

    For some riders crossing the finish line means they didn't work hard
    enough early in the race to chase down breaks. That's how slots are
    filled for the show. And, if you paid attention, I did say that the
    teams would like to win and will or course try, but it's not that big
    of a deal for a lot of these insignificant races.
     
  16. Tim Mullin

    Tim Mullin Guest

    "DA74" <davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1111894654.267159.150530
    @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

    > I'm feeling charitable so we'll go on to lesson two. I was very clear
    > and precise when I said "Euro races". The US domestic scene
    > essentially exists in a vacuum so comparing the two is impossible,


    Uh, dude, I know that shit. Everything you said was spot on. So, once again,
    if, on the grand scale of things US racing ain't shit, why do you expect us
    to be all impressed with your "Pro"ness? You expect me to be impressed with
    your participating in races that don't even measure up to many you accuse of
    glorified traing rides? You were the one bragging on the shit....bragging on
    doing some training ride, and expecting people to be impressed....wow. If
    that doesn't sound like fattie masterdom, I don't know what does.
     
  17. DA74

    DA74 Guest

    Tim Mullin wrote:
    > "DA74" <davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote in

    news:1111894654.267159.150530
    > So, once again, if, on the grand scale of things US racing
    > ain't shit,


    Timbo,
    US racing is something - Since your intellect cannot deal with mutual
    exclusivity I will step outside its bounds to assist you. Our top US
    races rate above many of the Euro "training races" I was referring to.
    It's very difficult to compare so take that with a grain of salt. I
    didn't say all Euro races rate above US races, they are just very
    difficult to compare.

    In the US, 50% of the jagoffs at the start line think they can win.
    The top three teams know this and have to ride differently. In Europe
    most everyone know their place so they don't have to deal with this
    crap. They let the early break go, reel it in later and the real
    racing begins.


    > why do you expect us to be all impressed with your "Pro"ness?


    You shouldn't be impressed with any "pro". It's a ridiculous
    designation here. In the US most are just glorified cat ones. Go back
    and read the posts - Papai-hole is trying to track me down so I gave
    him a couple hints to help him along.

    Now go back to gulping down that malt liquor and smacking your
    girlfriend.
     
  18. Tim Mullin

    Tim Mullin Guest

    "DA74" <davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1111898161.696856.224490
    @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

    > In the US most are just glorified cat ones.


    Yourself included I guess?

    > Now go back to gulping down that malt liquor and smacking your
    > girlfriend.


    Wrong on both counts. It's Diet Pepsi, and your mom. She says, "Hi," by the
    way, and wants to know when you're going to move out of the basement. It's
    not that she has plans for it, she just wants you to stop pretending you're a
    pro an get a real job.
     
  19. "DA74" <davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >
    > In the US, 50% of the jagoffs at the start line think they can win.
    > The top three teams know this and have to ride differently. In Europe
    > most everyone know their place so they don't have to deal with this
    > crap. They let the early break go, reel it in later and the real
    > racing begins.
    >
    >


    This is the essence of the difference between pro and amateur racing. No
    sarcasm intended.
     
  20. DA74

    DA74 Guest

    Carl Sundquist wrote:
    > > "DA74" <davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > In the US, 50% of the jagoffs at the start line think they can win.

    >
    > This is the essence of the difference between pro and amateur racing.

    No
    > sarcasm intended.


    Enlightenment attained. In Europe there is a distinct difference, here
    there they are as enjoined as Chang & Eng. My work is done here. Thank
    you Carl.
    -Seacrest. Out.
     
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