2010 Liege - Bastogne - Liege
- Thread starter steve
- Start date
It's unusual for someone who has served a two year ban to come back and win races at the highest level. In fact I can't think of anyone else who has done it...Anyway, does Valverde's podium place depress you also?? It's funny, reading through the list of winners of this race since 1990 is like reading a who's who of doping!
Depressing and embarrassing day for cycling.
Three Alexanders stand on the podium, only one should be there, the Russian one. Man I was willing him onto the win!
Until those in charge of the sport are willing to make the tough (but fair) calls this sport will not have an shred of credibility.
A mere 2 years after his being disgraced and making his "slamming the door" retirement announcement he's back and basically demanding to be respected again, calling his win "revenge"??!! No remorse whatsoever and finally an admission of sorts - too little, too late.
Valverde's CAS appeal was rejected and old Patty said that if that happeend the CONI ban would be extended world-wide. And still we wait...don't hold your breath...
Three Alexanders stand on the podium, only one should be there, the Russian one. Man I was willing him onto the win!
Until those in charge of the sport are willing to make the tough (but fair) calls this sport will not have an shred of credibility.
A mere 2 years after his being disgraced and making his "slamming the door" retirement announcement he's back and basically demanding to be respected again, calling his win "revenge"??!! No remorse whatsoever and finally an admission of sorts - too little, too late.
Valverde's CAS appeal was rejected and old Patty said that if that happeend the CONI ban would be extended world-wide. And still we wait...don't hold your breath...
In terms of remorse,etc., I'm not expecting Vinokourov to cry like a baby by apologizing, but his choice of words (revenge) were definitely poor, as if the cycling world had done some sort of injustice to him by banning him for what he did...
Like it or not, he served his two years and should be allowed to compete. I still don't trust the guy, though. Same goes for Valverde. Why would you need have random bags of blood sitting around in the office of a Doctor who's known to dope athletes up? Who knows.
Hats off to Kolobnev for his superb performance.
Like it or not, he served his two years and should be allowed to compete. I still don't trust the guy, though. Same goes for Valverde. Why would you need have random bags of blood sitting around in the office of a Doctor who's known to dope athletes up? Who knows.
Hats off to Kolobnev for his superb performance.
At least Vino won't vomit forth the as$licking douchbaggery like David Millar does in nearly every interview about doping...
... and at least he can be counted on to attack when least expected.
... and at least he can be counted on to attack when least expected.
Chavez said:
I agree. Criticism of his choice of words needs to be in context of how familiar he is with English vocabulary.
For the other comments - He has done the time that is required under the rules. If this is not sufficient, your beef is with the rules, not the individual.
EoinC said:
What? A level headed, well thought out comment?
This can't be cyclingforums.com surely
I quite agree - play the game not the player. Although I'vegiven up worrying about drugs so my comments aren't worth spit.
Oh and you're fat and have no cred - eat less pies (thought I'd live down the the usual standards around here he he he).
EoinC said:
That's absurd. Vino was doping the first day that he returned to racing. Serving your time only matters if it changes your behaviour. The only behaviour that Vino will have changed is that he won't dope with someone else's blood.
But since he has had two years to store up blood, needing someone else's shouldn't be a problem.
This brings me to a question. Some organizations are now claiming that they can detect doping with one's own blood. But I haven't seen anyone get poped for that yet. Does anyone know of someone who has been busted for doping with their own blood - and I mean in the testing fashion, not the Puerto fashion. So is the claim of being able to detect that kind of doping legit or not?
Regarding the passport program. Can it detect a change of a riders own blood volume?
racking my brain trying to remember where i read the information, but there was something a few months back concerning autologous blood doping. bio-passport would look at concentrations of rbc's to reticulytes or some such thing over a time period to ensure it is a more or less constant value and not an indication of doping or a health problem. in short, i don't believe they have a "test" for it like they do for homologous blood transfusions.
I guess you are missing the point. If the belief is that those who test positive exhibit a property that is not wanted in cycling (ie they find it acceptable to cheat), then what you desire is a permanent ban. This means that it is the rules that are wrong. If the rules allow him to race, then race he can. If he can race, and he wins, I guess it's a case of suck it up, cowboy.tambourlain said:
If the problem is the rules, focus your vitriol upon them...
Now, back to that absurdly large pie.
Cheers,
Eoin
EoinC said:
It's still an absurd position. I don't care if they have the rules right or not. If I want to direct my vitriol at Vinokourov I will. I don't have to suck anything up. He is still doping and that has nothing to do with his past doping. It's a new issue.
The fact that he get's a second chance after 2 years doesn't mean that he isn't contemptous for abusing that chance.
slovakguy said:
Yeah, it would be a tough one. Whatever standards they use, they would have to allow a significant amount of variation for different levels of conditioning throught the year. Since they still have problems detecting microdosing, I suspect that a foolproof test for doping with one's own blood would be very difficult. I'm trying to use Basso as a baseline of what performance looks like while doping and after doping. Both Basso and Vino went immediately to a pro tour team after their suspensions. In Basso's second year back he has not been able to reach his previous level of performance. And Basso knew that he was comming back and trained hard while he was gone. Vino came back and returned to his previous level almost immediately. Landis can't seem to get close to his previous level either. The fact that Vino acually had the balls to try to get away with using someone else's blood at the Tour; the fact that he was completely unrepentent; the fact that he tried to game the system with that retirement ploy; the fact that the Kazakh cycling union refuses to censor their riders for doping; the fact that he pulled away from two larger groups of very strong riders in the LBL, while doing virtually all of the pulling himself, tells me that Vino didn't miss a single beat in his doping regimen.
