400 lb Man To Cross USA - Need Drag Brake Advice

[fatmancycling]

Okay, stop laughing because I'm serious. I'm preparing to cycle across the US to lose weight, and need a good drag brake. I read about a drum style hub brake from Arai which is apparently popular for tandem bikes. Since I weigh more than two average cyclers, I figure this is what I need.

I called my local bike shop and the main guy had never heard of it. He says standard disk brakes without drag brake backup should work just fine. I don't want to find out he's wrong while I'm going 45 mph down a 6% grade and accelerating.

Anyone out there with experience on tandem brakes who could shed more light on a good solution?

Eldon Ward
www.fatmancycling.com

 

[cydewaze]

Sorry, I don't know what a drag brake is either (perhaps boudreaux does), but you'd be hard pressed to outbrake a disc brake, expecially a hydraulic one.

Good luck on your adventure!

 

[fatmancycling]

I read about the drag brake at www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_dr-z.html. With a total bike load of 500 lbs, I need to be confident in the braking system going downhill. Do hydraulic disc brakes lose any performace when they get wet? And seperately, can they overheat?

I guess, the best question I can ask is...Is it fairly routine for tandem bicyclers to take long trips using just a front and back disk brake?

Eldon
www.fatmancycling.com

 

[artmichalek]

Disk brakes won't overheat if you have large enough rotors. They're more exposed to air flow than drums and disipate heat quickly. There's no real loss of performance in rain.

 

[JohnO]

Hey, I'm not laughing - sure wish I could set out to ride across the US. That's going to be the adventure of a lifetime.

The Arai drag brake is a drum brake that is pretty much tandem specific. I have one on a Cannondale tandem that my wife and I ride, use it only on long descents because tandems tend to pick up speed very quickly going downhill, and fried brakes on a fully loaded tandem going downhill is bad news, indeed.

I don't believe it's easy (if at all possible) to fit this to a regular frame. There needs to be a mount on the rear chainstay for the drag brake to lock into. Also, you must have a tandem hub that is threaded for the brake on the opposite side of the freehub. Tandem hubs can have a wider axle width than normal road hubs, so check that before you buy a set of tandem wheels to go on a road bike.

The Arai brake shows up on ebay from time to time. That's where I bought mine.

Several companies make large disc brakes for downhill MTB use, that you might want to consider instead. I've seen 8" Avid discs fitted to DH bikes, and I belive that there are solid front forks that have the disc brake mounts on them, if you don't want to ride with a front shock.

 

[daveornee]

Okay, stop laughing because I'm serious. I'm preparing to cycle across the US to lose weight, and need a good drag brake. I read about a drum style hub brake from Arai which is apparently popular for tandem bikes. Since I weigh more than two average cyclers, I figure this is what I need.

I called my local bike shop and the main guy had never heard of it. He says standard disk brakes without drag brake backup should work just fine. I don't want to find out he's wrong while I'm going 45 mph down a 6% grade and accelerating.

Anyone out there with experience on tandem brakes who could shed more light on a good solution?

Eldon Ward
www.fatmancycling.com

We use Arai drum on our touring tandem.
You will need something like it.
Co-Motion makes tandems and custom touring bicycles, including Americano which has a tandem rear hub. I don't think Americano comes standard with the frame fittings that you need, but I would contact them directly.
Santana used a 203 mm diameter Disc in the rear on some of their high end tandems. I never used it so I don't know how it works.
At your starting weight, you will need a brake that can handle sustained heat disapation. Arai drum does it.

 

[Ronanmk]

I'm preparing to cycle across the US to lose weight,

Eldon, first of all, congratulations on your decision and good luck on your endeavour.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I don't think ciclying across the USA to loose weight is really the correct order here. IMHO, should be the other way around, loose weight to cycle across the US.
When you endeavour in a 3K-4K journey, you just can't diet through it. You'll need every single Kjule to push you across. You can't push yourself on lettuce and orange juice. I think it's best if you take this to your doctor / nutricionist and see what they recommend.
Anyway, It's just my opinion. Good luck on the trip!

 

[Rideastrong]

Arai makes a quality drum brake and i have set it up on several tandams and a few heavy weight tourning recumbants. Before you make the purchase make sure you have a compatable frame.

 

[artemidorus]

I'm staggered to hear that this drum brake/ drag brake is really more efficient at shedding heat than even a standard disc brake. Is it a traditional hang over from the days before disc brakes were available? Or is the drum now used with disc as well on the same wheel? Why do 1000-2000kg cars use disc instead of drum?
What about the front brake, which should be doing at least 50% of the heat shedding anyway? If the front disc can take the heat, then why can't the rear? Do you put drag brakes on both wheels?
Not trying to be antagonistic, just keen to hear some expert opinion.

 

[Rideastrong]

I'm staggered to hear that this drum brake/ drag brake is really more efficient at shedding heat than even a standard disc brake. Is it a traditional hang over from the days before disc brakes were available? Or is the drum now used with disc as well on the same wheel? Why do 1000-2000kg cars use disc instead of drum?
What about the front brake, which should be doing at least 50% of the heat shedding anyway? If the front disc can take the heat, then why can't the rear? Do you put drag brakes on both wheels?
Not trying to be antagonistic, just keen to hear some expert opinion.

when was the last time you saw a dump truck or tractor trailer truck with disk brakes? Disk brakes respond faster and offer great modulation, but overall stopping power these drum brakes are hard to beat. But they are very, very heavy and are not really performance orriented. Each option has it's place.

 

[artemidorus]

when was the last time you saw a dump truck or tractor trailer truck with disk brakes? Disk brakes respond faster and offer great modulation, but overall stopping power these drum brakes are hard to beat. But they are very, very heavy and are not really performance orriented. Each option has it's place.

So when you say "overall stopping power", I imagine you mean maximal heat dissipation rate? (Because it would be hard to beat discs for modulable friction). The drum interior and shoes are sheltered from cooling airflow, so I can't imagine that a drag brake is as effective a heat shedder as a disc. I understand that the original point of a drag brake was to take the heat dissipation job away from the rim and consequently to protect tube/tyre. Now that discs are available, that need is redundant.
With regard to heavy vehicles, I would imagine that cost and durability become important considerations.
I remain unconvinced of the merit of any kind of hub brake in the 21st century, except for simplicity with regard to backpedal brakes. Or, perhaps, ease of attachment of rear pannier racks.

 

[artemidorus]

I've just read that the Arai drag brake has a large, multifinned heat sink. So, it may well be better than discs.

 

[fatmancycling]

I'm amazed to have gotten this much information/advice in 24 hours. This is a great forum and I'm glad I found it.

From what I understand, the Arai drum style hub brake isn't used to actually stop the bike. I read one couples story who used this on their tandem. Using an adjustable handlebar mounted lever, they were able to effectively set a given speed they did not want to exceed. When going down hill, if they exceeded 40 mph the drag brake kicked in and held them at 40 mph. They still had there front and back brakes for normal braking operation.

It sounds like the best set up for me is to have an Arai to keep me from going too fast down hill, and hydraulic disc brakes for regular use. Does Arai still produce these, and if so does anyone know where I can buy one? I'll check with the retailer once I find one to determine compatibility with a regular jumbo large bike frame vs tandem.

Thanks again,

Eldon
www.fatmancycling.com

 

[fatmancycling]

Eldon, first of all, congratulations on your decision and good luck on your endeavour.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I don't think ciclying across the USA to loose weight is really the correct order here. IMHO, should be the other way around, loose weight to cycle across the US.
When you endeavour in a 3K-4K journey, you just can't diet through it. You'll need every single Kjule to push you across. You can't push yourself on lettuce and orange juice. I think it's best if you take this to your doctor / nutricionist and see what they recommend.
Anyway, It's just my opinion. Good luck on the trip!

Ronanmk,

You are absolutely right and I'm acutely aware that my complex carb intake levels dramatically affect my sustainable energy levels. That's why I've already asked myself, am I trying to ride the most miles possible each day, or am I trying to lose significant weight as my primary goal. The latter is true, so I have allowed myself 4 to 5 months to cross the U.S.

The first half of my trip would go markedly faster if I loaded up each day with complex carbs, but the energy would be coming from my food instead of my body which defeats the whole purpose.

The second half of the trip will take about the same amount of time either way. How's that you might ask? Consider this...If I go low carb the first half, I will have much less weight to carry the second half which will speed me up. If I carb load all the way across, I will still be carrying most of my extra weight which will continue to slow me down, countering the effects of carb loading.

I thank you for sharing your genuine concerns and I didn't take it the wrong way. As I cross the country losing weight, each state will get easier which will allow me to cover greater daily distances.

Eldon
www.fatmancycling.com

 

[cleff]

First of all I'd like congratulate you on your decision to lose weight. I wish I had the time to bike across the US, and someday I will.

What's wrong with just eating the same number of calories, but with a decent amount of carbohydrate? As I understand things, low carb diets do not mix with active lifestyles. If you're biking every day, your body will want a lot of the food you eat to come from carbohydrates. My guess is that if you stick to a low carb diet while biking across the US, your body will become extremely fatigued very quickly. Well, just some thoughts. If you've already spoken to a nutritionist about this then never mind.

I say forget about the drum brake and just go with either discs or calipers. I'm pretty sure that disc brakes can handle 400 pounds. What kind of brakes are you using now? Calipers? If they're working fine for you right now, I don't see any reason to switch. Especially since you'll be losing weight quickly during the trip. Well, best of luck to you.

 

[mrowkoob]

How about heavy duty disc brakes made for downhill racing they should hold you up.

 

[cmoore992002]

If you start this adventure you need to keep us posted on your progress. I for one will interested to see how you do. The advice and encouragement will follow. I think bicycling is a fantastic way to lose weight.

 

[Peka]

Can't help on the brake advice but 2 thumbs up for wanting to improve your health! I'm sure if you need some motivation along the way, you'll get it here.

 

[cheapie]

what type of bike will you be riding? i saw in your blog that you're riding your mtn bike right now. make sure you buy a comfortable seat and bike shorts. they make an incredible difference.

also...does your mtn bike have slicks on it? again...a world of difference.

 

[fatmancycling]

make sure you buy a comfortable seat and bike shorts. they make an incredible difference

My teenage children lovingly tell me that I better not wear bicycle shorts. They said a man my size could traumatize alot of people wearing shorts like that.

Actually, I will be looking around for some, but don't think they come in size 54" waist. Maybe by the time I hit Texas, I will find some I can wear. I hear everything is big in Texas, and I should be a little smaller by then.

As far as the seat, I know what you mean. My bike broke on Saturday in Death Valley and I've had to ride my stationary bike for the last two days. There was such a difference in butt comfort, that I'm about to rip the seat of my stationary and weld it to my regular bike! LOL

Eldon
www.fatmancycling.com