400 lb Man To Cross USA - Need Drag Brake Advice



I ran this past a tandem guru I know - he says that it's not a good idea to put a drag brake on a frame that wasn't designed for it. The drag brake has to anchor on the rear chainstay, and will apply the braking load to the chainstay. Not a problem at first, but on a long trip, the extra stress and vibration from repeated use can crack a chainstay that wasn't designed to handle that sort of load.

I would suggest you look at Avid cable actuated disc brakes. I put one on my MTB, and the installation is simple, braking is very effective. Hydraulics are more complex, and will delay your trip by days if you have a problem and have to order replacement parts. A cable can be replaced by any bike shop in a matter of minutes, or you can find brake cables at walmart and do it yourself. For long trips, keep it simple. Parts will break, whenever possible try to arrange a setup that can be easily repaired with commonly available parts.
 
artemidorus said:
I've just read that the Arai drag brake has a large, multifinned heat sink. So, it may well be better than discs.
The Arai drum brake combined with a traditional brake will provide safety and also prevent overheating of the rims in a long decent. Most frames that are compatible with a drum brake will not be compatible with a disk brake. I am sure there are some out there and i can't say i have looking for anything like this in years.

I would not say it is better than disks, it just has a different purpose.

Good luck on your XC ride.
 
Hi all,

I just weighed in yesterday at 399 lbs, which is 33 lbs down from 4 weeks ago. I'm on an Atkins style diet and have cycled 242 miles in training over the same 4 weeks. Thanks for all the advice on whether I needed or could even use a drag brake on a regular (vs tandem) bike frame. I'm set to depart on my cross country trip on Oct 3rd.

I have had to make a few concessions financially, and will be picking up a 25 inch Giant Yukon instead of a Cannondale touring bike this weekend. It has disc brakes and I feel I will be safe enought going down hills with it. I do have one concern, however, and wanted to ask about it.

This bike has shock absorbers on the front forks. Will these shocks be able to handle my weight without sinking down to far, and how will they affect my long distance riding in general?

Eldon
www.fatmancycling.com
 
fatmancycling said:
Hi all,

I just weighed in yesterday at 399 lbs, which is 33 lbs down from 4 weeks ago. I'm on an Atkins style diet and have cycled 242 miles in training over the same 4 weeks. Thanks for all the advice on whether I needed or could even use a drag brake on a regular (vs tandem) bike frame. I'm set to depart on my cross country trip on Oct 3rd.

I have had to make a few concessions financially, and will be picking up a 25 inch Giant Yukon instead of a Cannondale touring bike this weekend. It has disc brakes and I feel I will be safe enought going down hills with it. I do have one concern, however, and wanted to ask about it.

This bike has shock absorbers on the front forks. Will these shocks be able to handle my weight without sinking down to far, and how will they affect my long distance riding in general?

Eldon
www.fatmancycling.com
if you bought a new one, it has the SR Suntour XCP75 100mm Travel, w/preload Adjust fork. you can adjust the preload to negate a good portion of the effect from your weight.

one thing you MUST do is get some slicks instead of the mtn tires you've been running on your other bike. (i've been watching your progress ;)) it will make a HUGE difference in the amount of momentum and speed you carry. trust me. they can be had fairly cheaply also.
 
i congratulate you on taking this huge step to change your life! when i was 18 i weighed in at 325lbs. at 6'2" that was still a lot of extra weight. over the past three years, through cycling and a controlled diet, i am now down to 175-180lbs.(depending on many different things that week). trust me(coming from a former "fat guy" when i tell you that you will want to quit sometimes, but nothing is better than stepping on those scales and seeing a smaller number than your previous. i'm gonna email you and if you have any questions feel free to email me back!
 
Hey everyone,

Thanks for the excellent feedback to my brake question way back then. I purchased a bike with front and back disc brakes and they have worked fantastic on the down hill runs. I am presently back home in Pahrump, Nevada on Xmas break.

Since weighing in at 432 lbs on Aug 29th, 2005, I have cycled 1690 miles while dieting and have lost 93 lbs. My gear is in San Antonio, Texas which is where I will continue my journey on Jan 5th, proceeding the rest of the way cross country to St. Augustine, Florida via the Southern Tier route.

Happy Holidays To All,

Eldon Ward
www.fatmancycling.com
 
fatmancycling said:
Hey everyone,

Thanks for the excellent feedback to my brake question way back then. I purchased a bike with front and back disc brakes and they have worked fantastic on the down hill runs. I am presently back home in Pahrump, Nevada on Xmas break.

Since weighing in at 432 lbs on Aug 29th, 2005, I have cycled 1690 miles while dieting and have lost 93 lbs. My gear is in San Antonio, Texas which is where I will continue my journey on Jan 5th, proceeding the rest of the way cross country to St. Augustine, Florida via the Southern Tier route.

Happy Holidays To All,

Eldon Ward
www.fatmancycling.com
Hey Eldon,

I watched some of your videos...actually very entertaining! I am very impressed with how you are looking at your venture. I do not know you but I am indeed proud for you.

Good Luck!

Mark
 
Start with the concept that you can never change just one part on a bicycle. There is almost always something else that has to be changed or adjusted to make that new part work.

I've got a fair amount of experience with tandem bicycles and I have several tandeming friends who have done extensive touring. Tandem brakeing requirements, and I suspect yours also, are quite a bit different from mountain bike applications. On long downhills it's common to drag the rear brake for long periods of time which generates significant heat. Hub mounted drum brakes, or disc brakes are desired because they prevent the rim from overheating and causing the tire to blow off. Hydraulic disc brakes, for the most part, are not recommended for drag brake use on tandems because the heat generated can boil the hydraulic fluid or cause it to expand enough to lock up the brake.

Arai drum brakes are commonly used as drag brakes. To use one yu'll need a tandem rear hub that's threaded on both sides. All of the dual threaded hubs that I'm aware of are 145 over locknut dimension, so your frame will have to be able to accomodate that. You'll probably also need a 40 hole rim too. Actually, for a cross country tour, I'd recommend using 40 spokes at the front also but that's another story.

In practice, the Arai brakes are usually actuated by a friction shifter enough to set a drag on the rear wheel. Then the common rim brakes are used to sontrol your speed for curves etc.
 
Retro Grouch said:
Start with the concept that you can never change just one part on a bicycle. There is almost always something else that has to be changed or adjusted to make that new part work.

I've got a fair amount of experience with tandem bicycles and I have several tandeming friends who have done extensive touring. Tandem brakeing requirements, and I suspect yours also, are quite a bit different from mountain bike applications. On long downhills it's common to drag the rear brake for long periods of time which generates significant heat. Hub mounted drum brakes, or disc brakes are desired because they prevent the rim from overheating and causing the tire to blow off. Hydraulic disc brakes, for the most part, are not recommended for drag brake use on tandems because the heat generated can boil the hydraulic fluid or cause it to expand enough to lock up the brake.

Arai drum brakes are commonly used as drag brakes. To use one yu'll need a tandem rear hub that's threaded on both sides. All of the dual threaded hubs that I'm aware of are 145 over locknut dimension, so your frame will have to be able to accomodate that. You'll probably also need a 40 hole rim too. Actually, for a cross country tour, I'd recommend using 40 spokes at the front also but that's another story.

In practice, the Arai brakes are usually actuated by a friction shifter enough to set a drag on the rear wheel. Then the common rim brakes are used to sontrol your speed for curves etc.
There are very few photos of an installed Arai drag brake. You may see some :
at Precision tandems
on the Co-Motion website (top 1/3rd)

Since it is a third brake, one tricky item is how and where to mount the extra lever. There are a few philosophies and ways to solve the problem:

1. The Arai drum brake is not a powerful brake – i.e. unless you apply lots of brute force, you won't ever be able to lock a wheel with it – but it can be used for a long long time. So one favourite way to install it is to use a brake lever to activate it. Those who ride with drop bars and STI use a bar-end shifter; others use a clamp on shifter (an old Thumbshifter) or a downtube shifter, perhaps mounted on the stem.
Advantage of such a setup: you apply the drum brake by pulling on the shifter and let it drag (hence the name) all the way downhill; you may need to shift a bit more or less to let it drag more or less, but you do the extra braking (before turns, for example) with the two other brakes.
Drawback: you probably won't use it as much as you would otherwise.

2. You activate it with a brake lever, just like any other brake. You need to install three brake levers, which is what I have done on my tandem (the lower left one is for the drag brake, and the "normal" left one is for the rear rim brake).
With such a setup, you use the drag brake like any other brake, and with large hands, it's very easy to apply both left brakes at ones.
Advantage: easier modulation, you'll use it more often, probably even regularly with the front rim brake, which means less wear on the brake pads.
Drawback: you can't apply the drag brake at the top of a hill and forget it; just like a regular brake, you need to apply it all along.


I forgot:

To install the drag brake, you need a special hub that is threaded on the left side, to screw the drum brake into. Phil Wood, Chris King and DTSwiss make some ($$), but Shimano also makes a tandem hub. Those are currently available in 140 and 145-mm width (145 is the current tandem width), but often 135 mm is also available (it used to be the tandem standard 15 years ago), so you should be able to find something. Tip: if you buy a new wheel, get 40 or 48 spokes.

On the frame, you don't need a special brazed-on clamp: there is a bolt-on clamp supplied with the Arai drum brake that you simply install on the left chainstay.
 
That is an amazing weight loss!! I can't say how much I admire that guy! Good job. :)
 
bobbyOCR said:
Yeah, I'd like to here his story too. This was one of the first ever threads I looked at..:rolleyes:


well he did ride from his house in NV to FL. He had a couple breaks but he keep on plugging

Go to his website

www.fatmancycling.com

Interesting reading and some really nice photos.
 
This is obviously an old thread but I'll throw my 2c in anyway...

I can't speak for most bicycling implementations, but keep in mind disk brake systems work quite well on my ZX-12R motorcycle on the track, and that's hauling some combined 750 LB down from 155 mph in a few hundred feet, repeatedly.

I think if you get the most solid brake setup you can (for maybe for downhilling or tandems), you should be ok.. insofar that your wheels or tires are more likely to grenade before your brakes will at that point.