Another try at the "Biomechanical Evaluation of Pedalling Mechanics-Big Lance' thread



Fday

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I am not sure what caused the first try at this thread to become locked.

Roadhouse posted a link to this:
Biomechanical Evaluation of Pedalling Mechanics-Big Lance

there was some issue of copyright violation and personal attacks (I didn't see them) so I will post a link to a similar article from the same source that carries no copyright:

Carmichael Training Systems: Bonus - Lance Training Retrospective

In the original thread Crowley suggested this data "does not do me any favours". Actually, I believe it supports pretty much everything I have said and I have actually incorporated it and discuss it at my own web page now. See:

Lance Armstrong pedaling styl discussion

I look forward to discussing the implications of this data further with the many of you who think pedaling style doesn't matter.
 

frenchyge

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Fday said:
I am not sure what caused the first try at this thread to become locked.

Because of some behavior towards the end that was deleted by the mods.
 

roadhouse

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Fday said:
too bad, hopefully it will not recur.


bs. cyber is taking his mod status too far. he's not even a cyclist (barely) and gman called me stupid. read my thoughts on the matter in the bike cafe. hell, read what i wrote in that thread, there is no reason for it to be locked at all. what part of posting smilies to show that one is being funny doesn't anyone get anywho? It was a two way street.

btw, hey Frank, what's been happening?
 

n crowley

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Fday said:
I am not sure what caused the first try at this thread to become locked.

Roadhouse posted a link to this:
Biomechanical Evaluation of Pedalling Mechanics-Big Lance

there was some issue of copyright violation and personal attacks (I didn't see them) so I will post a link to a similar article from the same source that carries no copyright:

Carmichael Training Systems: Bonus - Lance Training Retrospective

In the original thread Crowley suggested this data "does not do me any favours". Actually, I believe it supports pretty much everything I have said and I have actually incorporated it and discuss it at my own web page now. See:

Lance Armstrong pedaling styl discussion

I look forward to discussing the implications of this data further with the many of you who think pedaling style doesn't matter.


How do you explain all the months of (PC style) painful training of the hip flexors to pull up when all that's required is unweighting or getting that rising leg out of the way.
 

Fday

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n crowley said:
How do you explain all the months of (PC style) painful training of the hip flexors to pull up when all that's required is unweighting or getting that rising leg out of the way.
Ugh, all those months of painful training is necessary just to be able to train the unweighting and getting the rising leg out of the way 4-5,000 times an hour for several hours. It is all the PowerCranks force the rider to do. It is all most of them actually do, expecially in the beginning when they have no reserve for doing any more.
 

gman0482

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First of all, you called yourself stupid by saying you have no brain. I was just wondering (a) what was the purpose of that copy/paste post ? and (b), what do you have to say or contribute to it ? nothing at all... WHAT WAS/IS YOUR POINT ????? :confused: :confused: Help me understand...
 

Fday

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roadhouse said:
bs. cyber is taking his mod status too far. he's not even a cyclist (barely) and gman called me stupid. read my thoughts on the matter in the bike cafe. hell, read what i wrote in that thread, there is no reason for it to be locked at all. what part of posting smilies to show that one is being funny doesn't anyone get anywho? It was a two way street.

btw, hey Frank, what's been happening?
Wow, if a thread is going to be cut off just because someone calls someone else stupid I guess this thread won't last long either since I am here and I seem to attract such comments.

What is happening? SOS. Actually, one of our top NZ athletes is making sounds like he/she might try racing on the PC's. I look forward to Fergie's analysis of that event, should it happen. LOL
 

roadhouse

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gman0482 said:
First of all, you called yourself stupid by saying you have no brain. I was just wondering (a) what was the purpose of that copy/paste post ? and (b), what do you have to say or contribute to it ? nothing at all... WHAT WAS/IS YOUR POINT ????? :confused: :confused: Help me understand...

not here, let this thread be for the people who are discussing power. go upstairs to the cafe.
 

Fday

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gman0482 said:
First of all, you called yourself stupid by saying you have no brain. I was just wondering (a) what was the purpose of that copy/paste post ? and (b), what do you have to say or contribute to it ? nothing at all... WHAT WAS/IS YOUR POINT ????? :confused: :confused: Help me understand...

WOW, have you ever heard of "self deprecation" as an actual communication technique? Usually done by the "smarter" people around. Did you see no value to the link what so ever in the "cycling training" forum?
 

roadhouse

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Fday said:
WOW, have you ever heard of "self deprecation" as an actual communication technique? Usually done by the "smarter" people around. Did you see no value to the link what so ever in the "cycling training" forum?



KaPow!!! :D thanks Frank, the guy woulda just fought with me forever and a day or tried to at least. now back to you smart people discussing the real matter at hand, i'm out for a run.
 

gman0482

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LOL, this is great, I needed a good laugh... What's on the table today gentlemen ??? Gimmickcranks ??? Sideways pedalling ???

I'm a newbie afterall, so I'm not on the PRO level as you 3 are. Especially Roadhouse, that dude is as good as BIG LANCE.

I appologize for the rude interruptions.... :)

I better go back to the Cafe now.
 

Fday

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gman0482 said:
What's on the table today gentlemen ??? Gimmickcranks ??? Sideways pedalling ??? . . .

I better go back to the Cafe now.
Perhaps we could discuss what is in the article and its implications. Perhaps you are better off in the Cafe.
 

fergie

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What do I think...

"Look into my eyes, deep into my eyes and focus on this red herring while you forget all about the lack of any real gains out side of having to work harder on your very expensive pair of Gimmickcranks but achieving nothing close to a well designed training programme".

Can't wait to hear about the Kiwi Celebrity Endorsement of your product. Just seen the NZ track team in the best condition, motivation and preparation ever and didn't see them perform any isolation exercises in the gym, on the road or on the track. I await your proposed mechanism for any such claimed gains.
 

Fday

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fergie said:
What do I think...

"Look into my eyes, deep into my eyes and focus on this red herring while you forget all about the lack of any real gains out side of having to work harder on your very expensive pair of Gimmickcranks but achieving nothing close to a well designed training programme".

Can't wait to hear about the Kiwi Celebrity Endorsement of your product. Just seen the NZ track team in the best condition, motivation and preparation ever and didn't see them perform any isolation exercises in the gym, on the road or on the track. I await your proposed mechanism for any such claimed gains.
Two things.

I didn't write the article you are calling a red herring. It was seemingly written by Carmichael about Armstrong. You somehow seem to think that paying attention to such details seems to mean one also cannot participate in a well-designed training program. So be it. I happen to believe that any program that ignores such details would not qualify as a "well-designed" training program. But, we can agree to disagree. But, your beef here in this thread is with Carmichael/Armstrong - not with me. I simply agree with what is being said.

Second, the "celebrity endorsement" of which you speak was someone saying they were contemplating racing on the GC's. That goes a little beyond an endorsement in my mind. And, rather than watching your NZ track athletes you might ask any of them if they have ever used the GC's. Might surprise you what you don't know about your athletes. :)
 

fergie

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Fday said:
I didn't write the article you are calling a red herring. It was seemingly written by Carmichael about Armstrong.

No but it is being presented here as a factual document when it is really just Lance and Carmichael's opinion. Par for the course for a performance artist such as yourself. Dave Ryan wrote a few threads back on the fallacy of taking what a rider thinks a little too seriously.

As a Commissaire I often ping people for coming out of the racing lane on the track in the final sprint. Most come up swearing black and blue they did not till we show them video footage clearly showing up. What they think they did and what actually happened where two different things. However some (and this has parallels to your behaviour Frank) know they cheated and will argue the point in case they get a soft Commissaire or the benefit of the doubt. You know better (or a trained Physician and Engineer should know better) but because you have Snake Oil to sell you keep throwing up these red herrings.

You somehow seem to think that paying attention to such details seems to mean one also cannot participate in a well-designed training program. So be it. I happen to believe that any program that ignores such details would not qualify as a "well-designed" training program. But, we can agree to disagree. But, your beef here in this thread is with Carmichael/Armstrong - not with me. I simply agree with what is being said.

It is merely two peoples opinion and if people assume that Lance won 7 tours because he focused on pedal stroke are probably the people who believe one product can deliver an average 40% improvement.

Second, the "celebrity endorsement" of which you speak was someone saying they were contemplating racing on the GC's. That goes a little beyond an endorsement in my mind. And, rather than watching your NZ track athletes you might ask any of them if they have ever used the GC's. Might surprise you what you don't know about your athletes. :)

Not really. For those of us floating around the high performance circles there is a good amount of information sharing. Just the same as your "claims" that the BCF were using GCs. When I chatted with one of their coaches they said no. I am sure there are a few people deluded enough to give them a try and some (Pinotti) even "think" they may do some good but again what people think and what is real can be two very different things.

In NZ the majority use SRM cranks even though there is no scientific evidence that training with them makes you a better rider;)
 

Fday

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fergie said:
No but it is being presented here as a factual document when it is really just Lance and Carmichael's opinion. Par for the course for a performance artist such as yourself. Dave Ryan wrote a few threads back on the fallacy of taking what a rider thinks a little too seriously.
snip
It is merely two peoples opinion and if people assume that Lance won 7 tours because he focused on pedal stroke are probably the people who believe one product can deliver an average 40% improvement.
Fergie, you are simply incredible.

It is one thing to say it is someones opinion when they are talking about what another person is thinking. But, it is entirely another thing to say it is simply someones opinion when they say "this is what I did". They are either lying or it is a fact, but it is not their opinion. If you have evidence he is lying then present it. If you don't then perhaps you might want to, at least, read what he has to say.

The article is presumably written by Carmichael about one aspect of how Lance trained. Because what he says goes against your bias you choose to simply ignore it and berate anyone who might dare think he is telling the truth.

You continue to amaze me.
 

fergie

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Fday said:
The article is presumably written by Carmichael about one aspect of how Lance trained. Because what he says goes against your bias you choose to simply ignore it and berate anyone who might dare think he is telling the truth.

You continue to amaze me.

My bias:) You continue to disappoint.
 

gman0482

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Sorry to interrupt again, but don't you think that maybe some pro's, on high levels, will state or show something they do, simply to mislead their competition and not give away what they are really doing ?

I also think that Lance is posting all his weight training videos on you tube, as one of those misleading gimmicks, but that's just my opinion.
 

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