Are you drinking too much water?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Pete Biggs, Jun 4, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Tags:


  2. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:

    > Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y

    "So how much is it safe to sip? "Aim to consume about a quarter of a pint of fluid for every hour of
    exercise, which won't replace everything you lose through sweat, but will maintain a healthy fluid
    balance," advises Tunstall-Pedoe. "More than that is not really advisable, unless it is very hot.''"

    4 oz. of water per hour??? Maybe sufficient for short duration exercise like running, but that's not
    hardly enough fluids for a several hour bike ride. 16-24 oz. per hour is more like it. If you're not
    peeing, you're not drinking enough.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
     
  3. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 02:44:44 +0100, "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> from wrote:

    >
    >Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y

    Come with me on a three-hour ride this July. You'll be begging for water, drink about a gallon and
    still weigh five pounds less than when you started. I can see the hyponatremia concern, but heat
    stroke is more of a danger here.
    --
    http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace an evil clock abruptly takes after an ancient
    glass elephant...
    11:50:42 PM 4 June 2003
     
  4. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Pete Biggs writes:

    > Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y

    Wait till CamelBak hears about this. Your life is no longer safe now that you have blown the cover
    off of "Hydrate or Die!", the mantra of these folks. Besides, to question this concept has been
    likened to blasphemy on wreck.bike.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  5. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    Terry Morse wrote:

    > Pete Biggs wrote:
    >
    > > Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y
    >
    > "So how much is it safe to sip? "Aim to consume about a quarter of a pint of fluid for every hour
    > of exercise, which won't replace everything you lose through sweat, but will maintain a healthy
    > fluid balance," advises Tunstall-Pedoe. "More than that is not really advisable, unless it is
    > very hot.''"
    >
    > 4 oz. of water per hour??? Maybe sufficient for short duration exercise like running, but that's
    > not hardly enough fluids for a several hour bike ride. 16-24 oz. per hour is more like it. If
    > you're not peeing, you're not drinking enough.
    > --
    > terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

    You got it. It's a simple rule. If you don't need to pee regularly, you don't have enough water in
    you. Bernie
     
  6. Bob

    Bob Guest

    "Bernie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Terry Morse wrote:
    >
    > > Pete Biggs wrote:
    > >
    > > > Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y
    > >
    > > "So how much is it safe to sip? "Aim to consume about a quarter of a pint of fluid for every
    > > hour of exercise, which won't replace everything you lose through sweat, but will maintain a
    > > healthy fluid balance," advises Tunstall-Pedoe. "More than that is not really advisable, unless
    > > it is very hot.''"
    > >
    > > 4 oz. of water per hour??? Maybe sufficient for short duration exercise like running, but that's
    > > not hardly enough fluids for a several hour bike ride. 16-24 oz. per hour is more like it. If
    > > you're not peeing, you're not drinking enough.
    > > --
    > > terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
    >
    > You got it. It's a simple rule. If you don't need to pee regularly, you don't have enough water in
    > you. Bernie
    >

    Apparently, they've never cycled in Arizona during the summer. 4oz per hour is nothing. I used to go
    through an entire three water bottles (the big ones) and still guzzle water at the end of my rid.e

    --
    Bob ctviggen at rcn dot com
     
  7. Pbwalther

    Pbwalther Guest

    I live in Central Florida. It generally gets into the mid 90s during the summer with high humidity.
    There are no organized centuries for the months of June, July and August. I can suck down a 70 oz
    camelback in 1 hour and still not pass the urination test.

    I can get hyponatriumia too. But that is caused by the sodium lost in sweat and the fluid I am
    replacing it with has none in it (just water). So I carry table salt and eat some after I have
    sucked down 2 camelbacks.

    I have gone through consumed nearly 20 lbs of water on a century and still lost some weight.

    Of course, roofers hereabouts go through lots and lots of water. Really, these articles need to be
    taken with some common sense.

    Sure you CAN drink too much water, but generally it just gets excreted before it causes any problem.
    In extreme cases, you can get other problems, but a person who drinks your basic lil bottle of water
    is not going to have a problem.
     
  8. Burr

    Burr Guest

    I live in the desert (112° yesterday), I drink all the water I can carry on a 28 mile ride and get a
    refill at times at 18 miles. We have hills and high winds that makes a ride work! My road bike has
    two bottle holders and my touring bike has two big holders and one small holder. I freeze the
    bottles and on the touring bike I carry a gallon jug in a bag.

    I only stop to pee maybe one time.

    It's to hot for a "Camel Back" on my back!

    Burr Diamondback Road Bike REI Touring Bike Schwinn City Bike So. California Deserts

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y
    >
    > ~PB
     
  9. Van Bagnol

    Van Bagnol Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

    > Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y

    This topic had been beaten to death in misc.fitness.* groups a year ago.

    (1) It's not too much water, it's too little sodium that's the issue. When people suffering from
    sodium loss mistakenly keep drinking water instead, they add to the problem.

    (2) Hyponatremia occurs in cases of _extreme_ duration activity. The few deaths that resulted
    occured in ultramarathons/triathlons and a military boot camp where the victims had ingested
    _gallons_ of water with no electrolyte replenishment. When they collapsed, they continued to be
    given more water before the mistake was realized.

    (3) The amount of sodium in a whole gallon of electrolyte-replenishing Gatorade is about the same as
    in a ham-and-cheese sandwich. One can avoid hyponatremia simply by bringing a bag of peanuts or
    saltine crackers to munch on.

    (4) The "drink eight glasses of water a day" mantra is simplistic, naive, and parroted everywhere.
    It appears to have come from a misquoted study where the body was shown to lose/hydrolyze 2
    litres of water daily. However, what was overlooked was that the body ingests/ synthesizes 1 l
    from food and metabolic processes, leaving a net deficit of just one litre. So it's not 8
    glasses of drinking _water_, but rather 4 cups of fluid from various sources.

    Additionally,

    (5) The body can only absorb water at a rate of about 1 l/hr, so small frequent sips are better
    than a huge guzzle near the start. Sometimes it's not so much too much water as too much water
    at one time.

    (6) While "drink all the water you can no matter what" is simplistic and naive, I've not heard it
    really said anywhere, and I suspect it's a straw man argument, at the very least a gross
    exaggeration.

    (7) Tunstall-Pedoe's advice about "a quarter pint of fluid an hour" sounds like it's for
    moderate-intensity activities like hiking or beach cruising, or for overweight New Years
    Resolution pansies who are wiped out by a 45 min step aerobics class. :) Not _bad_ advice per
    se, just inadequate for more intense duration exercise.

    Van

    --
    Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com ...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing /
    Skydiving / Mountain Biking ...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip" ...thinks - "An
    Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"
     
  10. Van Bagnol

    Van Bagnol Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Bernie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Terry Morse wrote:
    > > > Pete Biggs wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y
    > > >
    > > > "So how much is it safe to sip? "Aim to consume about a quarter of a pint of fluid for every
    > > > hour of exercise, which won't replace everything you lose through sweat, but will maintain a
    > > > healthy fluid balance," advises Tunstall-Pedoe. "More than that is not really advisable,
    > > > unless it is very hot.''"
    > > >
    > > > 4 oz. of water per hour??? Maybe sufficient for short duration exercise like running, but
    > > > that's not hardly enough fluids for a several hour bike ride. 16-24 oz. per hour is more like
    > > > it. If you're not peeing, you're not drinking enough.
    > > > --
    > > > terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
    > >
    > > You got it. It's a simple rule. If you don't need to pee regularly, you don't have enough water
    > > in you. Bernie
    >
    > Apparently, they've never cycled in Arizona during the summer. 4oz per hour is nothing. I used
    > to go through an entire three water bottles (the big ones) and still guzzle water at the end of
    > my rid.e

    The studies I've read say that the body can lose up to 3 litres/hour of water in extreme conditions,
    although the absorption rate is only about 1 litre/hour. It's conceivable to get waterlogged from
    draining three 24-oz bottles and still be dehydrated at the end, by guzzling too much at the start.

    Hydration packs help encourage you to take smaller more frequent sips, which better matches your
    absorption rate. My rule of thumb is to take a sip every mile or every 5 minutes, which works to
    about a bottle/litre an hour.

    But cycling is less "jerky" than running or aerobics, so the sloshy waterlogged feeling from
    overgulping is less severe anyway.

    Van

    --
    Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com ...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing /
    Skydiving / Mountain Biking ...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip" ...thinks - "An
    Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"
     
  11. On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 07:08:23 GMT, Van Bagnol <[email protected]> wrote:

    >(4) The "drink eight glasses of water a day" mantra is simplistic, naive, and parroted everywhere.
    > It appears to have come from a misquoted study where the body was shown to lose/hydrolyze 2
    > litres of water daily. However, what was overlooked was that the body ingests/ synthesizes 1 l
    > from food and metabolic processes, leaving a net deficit of just one litre. So it's not 8
    > glasses of drinking _water_, but rather 4 cups of fluid from various sources.

    But not coffee, tea, or Coke, cause with the ADH-inhibitors contained therein, viz, caffeine, you
    also lose more.

    Also, it just differs mightily from person to person. Personally, I sweat like a pig if it's hot,
    and in hot weather I need at least 2 liters a day even without excercise.

    Jasper
     
  12. Slider2699

    Slider2699 Guest

    "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 02:44:44 +0100, "Pete Biggs"
    <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc>
    > from wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y
    >
    > Come with me on a three-hour ride this July. You'll be begging for water,
    drink
    > about a gallon and still weigh five pounds less than when you started. I
    can see
    > the hyponatremia concern, but heat stroke is more of a danger here.
    >
    Exactly. I live in Florida, and it's nothing for me to drain my Camelbak AND two large bottles
    during a summer ride. I'd rather drink too much than have heat stroke.
     
  13. Austinboston

    Austinboston Guest

    Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Pete Biggs wrote:
    >
    > > Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y
    >
    > "So how much is it safe to sip? "Aim to consume about a quarter of a pint of fluid for every hour
    > of exercise, which won't replace everything you lose through sweat, but will maintain a healthy
    > fluid balance," advises Tunstall-Pedoe. "More than that is not really advisable, unless it is
    > very hot.''"
    >
    > 4 oz. of water per hour??? Maybe sufficient for short duration exercise like running, but that's
    > not hardly enough fluids for a several hour bike ride. 16-24 oz. per hour is more like it. If
    > you're not peeing, you're not drinking enough.

    4 oz. per hour will just barely get you the 64 oz. per day that is commonly touted as necessary
    under "normal" (i.e. sedentary) circumstances. In other words, that's what you should be drinking if
    you are *not* excercizing. It's interesting that they follow that silly advice with this:

    "For a simple way to ensure your fluid balance is healthy, the new guidelines suggest weighing
    yourself before and after exercise. Sutton agrees: 'Any weight loss is not fat but fluid and you
    need to put it back. For every pound you lose after exercise, you should drink two medium glasses of
    water to replace it.'"

    I believe this would result in a lot more than 4 ounces of water per hour. Obviously the person who
    wrote the article knew little enough to not detect the contradiction between the two statements.

    Hyponatraemia is as much a matter of not getting enough electrolytes to go with the water you are
    drinking than drinking too much water in the first place. "Have a banana and a handful of pretzils
    with your water" would be much better advice than "don't drink a lot of water".

    It never ceases to amaze me that the Western health community will rush to treat symptoms and so
    often ignore underlying causes.

    Austin
     
  14. [email protected] (Pbwalther) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I live in Central Florida. It generally gets into the mid 90s during the summer with high
    > humidity. There are no organized centuries for the months of June, July and August. I can suck
    > down a 70 oz camelback in 1 hour and still not pass the urination test.

    I notice that this article is from a British newspaper. Remember, in England 75 F. is considered
    a heatwave.
     
  15. > It's a simple rule. If you don't need to pee regularly, you don't have enough water in you. Bernie

    I note that the study (no links to it or anything) found 70 cases amongst runners and joggers in
    *seventeen* years!

    Considering all those runners over such a long time it can hardly be the case that we need a dire
    warning like this!

    What a load of p....... Drink till you pee clear, that's what I say. Robert
     
  16. [email protected] (Robert McDonald) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > > It's a simple rule. If you don't need to pee regularly, you don't have enough water in you.
    > > Bernie
    >
    > I note that the study (no links to it or anything) found 70 cases amongst runners and joggers in
    > *seventeen* years!

    So the answer to the question "Are you drinking too much water?" is "Probably not."

    Stella
     
  17. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Delano DuGarm wrote:
    >
    > I notice that this article is from a British newspaper. Remember, in England 75 F. is considered a
    > heatwave.

    Yes, and British pints and fluid ounces are different from US units*. Might explain why Americans
    get so drunk on the beer in the UK :)

    Anyway, so is it virtually impossible to over-hydrate on isotonic drinks?

    * not by much, though - see: http://fisher.lib.virginia.edu/reference/units.html

    ~PB
     
  18. Bicycling can lead to dehydration faster than most other types of outdoor exercise. The constant
    rapid flow of air can evaporate perspiration before it builds up on your skin and becomes
    noticeable. In warm weather, you usually lose liquid faster than you realize. It's 90 degrees here
    and I've already drunk 3/4 gallon of water today. When I leave for a 60-mile ride in a few minutes,
    I'll take along another 3/4 gallon and expect to finish it before returning. Then, I'll still need
    more water later on. If I don't keep up my body's hydration level today, my cellular level will be
    down tomorrow, affecting performance. If you don't take in enough water daily, you can suffer a
    cumulative deficit over several hot days that can lead to dangerous dehydration and heat-exhaustion.
    I waited until 10 pm yesterday to ride, but it was still 80 degrees and didn't provide much relief.
    Even though I drank over 2 gallons of water yesterday, the fact that I needed to make no WC visits
    during 8 hours of sleep showed that I was still low on body fluids. Even then, my effluent was
    minimal and I've been drinking heavily, trying to build up my fluids for the ride. I may have to
    wisely take a day off soon, just because of my diminishing fluid level in this heat wave, despite
    all my drinking.

    Steve McDonald
     
  19. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    AustinBoston wrote:

    > Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Pete Biggs wrote:
    > >
    > > > Interesting article: http://tinyurl.com/di9y
    > >
    > > "So how much is it safe to sip? "Aim to consume about a quarter of a pint of fluid for every
    > > hour of exercise, which won't replace everything you lose through sweat, but will maintain a
    > > healthy fluid balance," advises Tunstall-Pedoe. "More than that is not really advisable, unless
    > > it is very hot.''"
    > >
    > > 4 oz. of water per hour??? Maybe sufficient for short duration exercise like running, but that's
    > > not hardly enough fluids for a several hour bike ride. 16-24 oz. per hour is more like it. If
    > > you're not peeing, you're not drinking enough.
    >
    > 4 oz. per hour will just barely get you the 64 oz. per day that is commonly touted as necessary
    > under "normal" (i.e. sedentary) circumstances. In other words, that's what you should be drinking
    > if you are *not* excercizing. It's interesting that they follow that silly advice with this:
    >
    > "For a simple way to ensure your fluid balance is healthy, the new guidelines suggest weighing
    > yourself before and after exercise. Sutton agrees: 'Any weight loss is not fat but fluid and you
    > need to put it back. For every pound you lose after exercise, you should drink two medium glasses
    > of water to replace it.'"
    >
    > I believe this would result in a lot more than 4 ounces of water per hour. Obviously the person
    > who wrote the article knew little enough to not detect the contradiction between the two
    > statements.
    >
    > Hyponatraemia is as much a matter of not getting enough electrolytes to go with the water you are
    > drinking than drinking too much water in the first place. "Have a banana and a handful of pretzils
    > with your water" would be much better advice than "don't drink a lot of water".
    >
    > It never ceases to amaze me that the Western health community will rush to treat symptoms and so
    > often ignore underlying causes.
    >
    > Austin

    The original advice - IMHO - poor advice to consume such a small amount of water sounds like the
    sort of nonsense I remember reading in my youth in books about "how to fish" and "how to start your
    own business" etc. Written by know it alls who had obviously never done anything. Just because it is
    written down, it don't make it gospel. Stay hydrated (it's not easy) and keep a handle on your own
    personal condition. Best regards, Bernie
     
  20. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:

    > Delano DuGarm wrote:
    > >
    > > I notice that this article is from a British newspaper. Remember, in England 75 F. is considered
    > > a heatwave.
    >
    > Yes, and British pints and fluid ounces are different from US units*. Might explain why Americans
    > get so drunk on the beer in the UK :)
    >
    > Anyway, so is it virtually impossible to over-hydrate on isotonic drinks?
    >
    > * not by much, though - see: http://fisher.lib.virginia.edu/reference/units.html
    >
    > ~PB

    Tourists always drink more than the locals! (except when they are tourists in Canada)
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...