Armstrong $5 Mil bonus being held...

[NavyDood]

Reuters Article

DALLAS (Reuters) - A Dallas company that specializes in underwriting prize money is withholding a $5 million bonus to Lance Armstrong until it investigates claims the Tour de France champion used performance-enhancing drugs.

SCA Promotions Inc. said it will wait to pay the bonus to Armstrong for his sixth Tour victory amid claims in the unauthorized biography "LA Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong" that the American used banned drugs. The book, written by journalists Pierre Ballester and David Walsh, contains statements from a former masseuse for Armstrong's U.S. Postal team who made the doping allegations against the American cyclist.

Armstrong and his sponsors have vigorously denied the claims, saying the Texan has passed every drug test given to him. They sought injunctions against the book in French courts, but in July, a Paris appeals court turned down a request by Armstrong asking that the book include his outright denial of the allegations.

The $5 million has been placed in a custodial account with JP Morgan, SCA said. "We are obligated to investigate the claims," said SCA attorney Chris Compton. He would not elaborate on the details of the investigation or any specific claims that are being examined.

In 2001, Tailwind Sports, the parent company of Armstrong's cycling team, paid SCA an insurance premium of $420,000 before the Tour de France to pay bonuses if Armstrong earned them.

SCA paid a $1.5 million bonus in 2002 for Armstrong's Tour victory and a $3 million bonus in for his win in 2003. Armstrong was to receive the $5 million bonus after winning his sixth straight Tour earlier this year.

Armstrong and Tailwind filed a lawsuit in a state court in Texas earlier this month seeking the $5 million bonus from SCA. The plaintiffs argue that the Tour victories have been approved by appropriate cycling authorities and that Armstrong is due the bonus.

 

[rule62]

That is so like the man.

 

[skydive69]

That is so like the man.

What is so like what man?

 

[rule62]

::: aside mode :::

Think 60's...the man = authority. It's a hippie-era phrase you would use to commiserate with someone who has just gotten hassled. It would be a typical response to either of the following.

"Like I just left my ride parked out in front of the Co-op to walk down to that Vietnamese egg roll stand, you know the guy who has all that really good hot sauce and stuff? So when I got back to my car, there was a ticket on the window."

"I can't believe that they don't let you sleep here anymore."

::: /aside mode :::

 

[Flyer]

It's just business---that is; fighting over money without physical violence.

One side is up $4,000,000 ($4,500,000 less a premium paid of $420,000) vrs another group which is down $4,080,000 and trying to avoid yet another $5,000,000 loss.

Insurance fraud is an excellent suspicion---and comprehensive medical records will NEVER be revealed on Mssr. Armstrong's case. Perhaps a liver screen could be provided? I doubt it.

Maybe we can get Michele Ferrari to give a deposition. Then we can fly in Filippo Simeoni for a character witness too. They can all BBQ long-horn style.

Lance can wrangle a super steroid, HGH, testosterone juiced bull. It will be fun. Bring the kids.

Seriously, I look for USPO aka Tailwind Sports to cut a deal for a lesser amount later on next year after we burn up plenty of attorneys fees first.
Lance cannot prove he is drug-free, but he can sit on his hands and pay lawyers. Bill Stapelton is plenty busy on his Public Relations job. So far, so good. Now, if only they can be absolutely sure that Greg Stock and Erich Kaiter do not taint Lance when their Rene Wenzel & USA Cycling doping trial goes to court---they will enjoy a pleasant spring.

Both sides on this SCA/Tailwinds case will cave---and the lawyers will prevail yet again.

I believe this will fade away like the July 2000 Actovegin, insulin, IV bags medical waste the USPO staffers dumped into a bin and were filmed doing so by French TV-3. That too, faded away after two years time.

It is always something. Wait until the next shoe drops.

Who's the man?

It's only money.

::: aside mode :::

Think 60's...the man = authority. It's a hippie-era phrase you would use to commiserate with someone who has just gotten hassled. It would be a typical response to either of the following.

"Like I just left my ride parked out in front of the Co-op to walk down to that Vietnamese egg roll stand, you know the guy who has all that really good hot sauce and stuff? So when I got back to my car, there was a ticket on the window."

"I can't believe that they don't let you sleep here anymore."

::: /aside mode :::

 

[li0scc0]

Lance cannot prove he is drug-free, but he can sit on his hands and pay lawyers.

The point is not to prove you are drug-free, but to prove you are a drug user. Since we have to presume innocence until guilt is proven, AND since Armstrong has failed zero drug tests, they have to assume he is innocent.

 

[beerco]

Insurance fraud is an excellent suspicion
.

Are you saying that Lancy didn't win a 6th TdF? I believe that was the requirements of the contract with SCA

Lance cannot prove he is drug-free.

He doesn't have to. All he has to do is prove that he won a 6th TdF....which shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[skydive69]

The point is not to prove you are drug-free, but to prove you are a drug user. Since we have to presume innocence until guilt is proven, AND since Armstrong has failed zero drug tests, they have to assume he is innocent.

I'm afraid the clarity of that logic will escape him and many of the other denizens of this clear thinking group!

 

[bobke]

I'm afraid the clarity of that logic will escape him and many of the other denizens of this clear thinking group!

Just more empty suits trying to do the "responsible" thing with their company's money and deny payment.

A women who works in our kids' pediatricians office used to work for a major insurance company, in the health care claims dept. Said it was POLICY to deny claims arbitrarily and then see what the customer would do.
Also just to throw some away and say never recieved. Great huh?

As for Lance, he cant prove a negative. "Prove you have never doped, Lance!" Cant be done. Can prove a positive. WOn the six tours. Was tested out the wazoo. UCI and ASO approved. Gimme the 5 mill!!!

But I think it means that a certain Mr Armstrong between David Walsh and Simeoni and Ferrari has a PR vulnerability which the company is exploiting for financial benefit.

Maybe Lance wont race next year.

 

[Flyer]

Just more empty suits trying to do the "responsible" thing with their company's money and deny payment.

A women who works in our kids' pediatricians office used to work for a major insurance company, in the health care claims dept. Said it was POLICY to deny claims arbitrarily and then see what the customer would do.
Also just to throw some away and say never recieved. Great huh?

As for Lance, he cant prove a negative. "Prove you have never doped, Lance!" Cant be done. Can prove a positive. WOn the six tours. Was tested out the wazoo. UCI and ASO approved. Gimme the 5 mill!!!

But I think it means that a certain Mr Armstrong between David Walsh and Simeoni and Ferrari has a PR vulnerability which the company is exploiting for financial benefit.

Maybe Lance wont race next year.

Let's clarify what "tested out the wazoo" does NOT mean.

Many synthetic hormones such as HGH (growth hormone), insulin, EPO, HBOCs likes RSR-13, PFC, Actovegin (calf blood) and interlukin proteins cannot be effectively screened for numerous and confounding reasons. Even testosterone levels can be super boosted legally, despite the very high allowable limits set.

And these are the powerful and performance boosters that are, in fact, being used by top athletes.

So "tested out the wazoo" is not something to depend upon for important judgments. (Virenque & Zulle were tested out the wazoo too)

Fancy yes, business decisions, no way.

Lance is being investigated for "sporting fraud" of another kind in Italy for his nutty behavior in stage 18 and again in the final stage in this year's TDF.

So the insurance claims personnel will have lots of reasons to stall on a settlement--and I am sure they will.

 

[bikeraph]

This is the best thing I've read all day!

 

[li0scc0]

This is the best thing I've read all day!

What is, that the bonus is being withheld, or the arguments against his bonus being withheld?

 

[bobke]

What is, that the bonus is being withheld, or the arguments against his bonus being withheld?

I'm not justifying his behavior, but if you want to intimidate a witness, would you do it in the middle of a race, in public, on live International TV, in a discussion while racing that you can bet everyone would be asking about immediately after the race?

I dont think so.

I think he was just flicking Simeoni, the same was the peloton and USPS has done to other riders at other times for a variety of reasons. Only instead of ordering his team to chase, they were tired and didnt need to chase, the whole group wanted to rest etc, HE did it to prove a point.

Whether it was "sporting to do so" is another question, but sporting fraud is a joke, the way the Italian legal system is a joke and the way lots of things in Italian cycling are a joke, from their adulation of that phony Marco Pantani to the way the choose their team for the worlds leaving out the hottest one day racer in the world Rebellin, because Bettini was favored by Ballerini. Does THAT make sense to anyone?

Oh yeah, did ya read that Museuw was sanctioned for his appearence of doping. Anyone yelling about that?!?

 

[meb]

hombredesubaru wrote:
“….if you want to intimidate a witness, would you do it in the middle of a race, in public, on live International TV, in a discussion while racing that you can bet everyone would be asking about immediately after the race?

I dont think so.”

It’s rather obvious Lance did so in front of everyone.

Lance chased down the witness testifying in his doctor’s Italian court doping trial, doing so even to the detriment of Lance’s TDF performance. Lance wasn’t trying to win that stage, Simeoni was no threat to his lead, Lance expended energy for no logical competitive reason chasing Simeoni, energy he might have need to hold off Basso, Kondi, or Ullrich if it were a closer race.

He told the breakaway group he wasn’t going to let them breakaway if Simeoni was with them. Then drifted back to the peloton once Simeoni withdrew from the breakaway.
That was clearly directed at intimidating the witness. The witness was clearly being harmed by not being permitted a chance at the stage win.

Intimidating the whistleblower in front of everyone speaks of boneheaded arrogance, he probably thought he could get away with it, he probably never expected to see Simeoni in a breakaway that day and might have not even had the realization that it would be noticed by the public.


hombredesubaru wrote “He did it to prove a point.”
And the witness and any other potential whistleblowers got the point that Lance won’t tolerate snitches blowing the whistle on his associates in a court of law.

 

[bobke]

"It’s rather obvious Lance did so (initmidated) in front of everyone."

No, Lance was not intimidating him, he was simply doing what a lot of bitter rivals do in the peloton, flick each other.

When a team or rider has a grudge, for whatever reasons, with another rider or team, it is not uncommon at all for riders to get chased down or not "allowed" to get into breaks. It's called, I repeat, flicking. Not intimidating.

"Lance expended energy for no logical competitive reason chasing Simeoni."
True..it's called flicking.

"He told the breakaway group he wasn’t going to let them breakaway if Simeoni was with them. Then drifted back to the peloton once Simeoni withdrew from the breakaway."

Agreed. He didnt want to mess with the other riders, which he would have been doing if he ordered his team to chase the whole group.

"That was clearly directed at intimidating the witness."

That is only your interpretation. Only Lance knows what he really intended.
Hadnt Simeoni already teastified BTW? So wheres the intimidation?

It is clear Lance was mad at Simeoni, because Simeoni is full of **** and goes around saying he is the only clean rider and everyong dopes etc. He really has and does say stuff like that. I did not know this until I did some research after Lance flicked him that day, which I thought then and still do today think was a stupid thing of Lance to do.


" The witness" (or a**hole depending on your interpretation)
"was clearly being harmed"

Define harm.
Riders get flicked all the time, Simeoni should stop whining.

" by not being permitted a chance at the stage win."
True.

"speaks of boneheaded arrogance,"
True

"Never expected the public to notice"?

Exactly the opposite!!!
Everything Lance does 24-7 is noticed.
He KNEW it would be noticed.
He was rubbing Simeoni's nose in it and drawing attention to it on purpose!
He was embarassing Simeoni, or trying to.

What Lance could not have counted on is some arrogant Italian prosecutor thinking he can call a cyclist on a routine flick that happens a thousand times a year in races all over the world for all kinds of grudge matches.

Just like happened to Cedric Vasseur when he left USPS and talked a bunch of trash about not being included in the USPS Tour team the year before, and then inciting a lot of French antipathy to Lance in a widely publicized interview the week before the TourdeFramce a couple of years ago. It was a Looooooong time before Monsieur Vasectomy could get off the front of a peloton with USPS in it, a very long time, because he was chased down every time he tried to get in a break. Is this illegal??
No, it is the unspoken law of the peloton.

Lance claims he was trying to protect the peloton from people like Simeoni from trashing the sport in the eyes of the world by repeatedly claiming that all riders dope, that he is the only clean guy etc etc

Was it right? Probably not.

Was it illegal? Unquestionably not.

 

[meb]

"It’s rather obvious Lance did so (initmidated) in front of everyone."

No, Lance was not intimidating him, he was simply doing what a lot of bitter rivals do in the peloton, flick each other.

When a team or rider has a grudge, for whatever reasons, with another rider or team, it is not uncommon at all for riders to get chased down or not "allowed" to get into breaks. It's called, I repeat, flicking. Not intimidating.

"Lance expended energy for no logical competitive reason chasing Simeoni."
True..it's called flicking.

"He told the breakaway group he wasn’t going to let them breakaway if Simeoni was with them. Then drifted back to the peloton once Simeoni withdrew from the breakaway."

Agreed. He didnt want to mess with the other riders, which he would have been doing if he ordered his team to chase the whole group.

"That was clearly directed at intimidating the witness."

That is only your interpretation. Only Lance knows what he really intended.
Hadnt Simeoni already teastified BTW? So wheres the intimidation?

It is clear Lance was mad at Simeoni, because Simeoni is full of **** and goes around saying he is the only clean rider and everyong dopes etc. He really has and does say stuff like that. I did not know this until I did some research after Lance flicked him that day, which I thought then and still do today think was a stupid thing of Lance to do.


" The witness" (or a**hole depending on your interpretation)
"was clearly being harmed"

Define harm.
Riders get flicked all the time, Simeoni should stop whining.

" by not being permitted a chance at the stage win."
True.

"speaks of boneheaded arrogance,"
True

"Never expected the public to notice"?

Exactly the opposite!!!
Everything Lance does 24-7 is noticed.
He KNEW it would be noticed.
He was rubbing Simeoni's nose in it and drawing attention to it on purpose!
He was embarassing Simeoni, or trying to.

What Lance could not have counted on is some arrogant Italian prosecutor thinking he can call a cyclist on a routine flick that happens a thousand times a year in races all over the world for all kinds of grudge matches.

Just like happened to Cedric Vasseur when he left USPS and talked a bunch of trash about not being included in the USPS Tour team the year before, and then inciting a lot of French antipathy to Lance in a widely publicized interview the week before the TourdeFramce a couple of years ago. It was a Looooooong time before Monsieur Vasectomy could get off the front of a peloton with USPS in it, a very long time, because he was chased down every time he tried to get in a break. Is this illegal??
No, it is the unspoken law of the peloton.

Lance claims he was trying to protect the peloton from people like Simeoni from trashing the sport in the eyes of the world by repeatedly claiming that all riders dope, that he is the only clean guy etc etc

Was it right? Probably not.

Was it illegal? Unquestionably not.

Independent of whether Simeoni is an angel or an a**hole (an adjective not mutually exclusive to being a witness), he is still testifying in a criminal case. Lance can’t inject himself into a criminal matter and assert the judiciary can’t touch him just because both participants were UCI competitors and UCI routinely never penalizes riders. The criminal case is a greatly elevated matter over a mere grudge match.

The Ferrari trial was still ongoing, besides there is not a future tense limitation on Simeoni’s status as a witness.

The harm-an action doing damage in some aspect of Simeoni’s life.
Simeoni’s cycling carrier, endorsements, and livelihood were being harmed by not being permitted the opportunity at a stage win.

I doubt that Lance realized his chasing the witness down like that would be conspicuous to the general public. Lance has been battling drug doping allegations for years. Maliciously going after Simeoni for whistleblowing on Lance’s doctor or for breaking the peloton’s code of silence on doping like an underworld don does more to undermine Lance’s doping denials than his dominating performances would do to undermine the denials.

If Lance had checked with his legal team first, they would have advised him to avert approaching the witness.

 

[bobke]

Agreed, it was stupid of Lance and I think he lost a lot of good will from some riders by doing that. But it's hard to say what the riders think since they won't come out and blast Lance, for whatever reasons. Some seem to favor what he did, others not.

It certainly did hurt Simeoni professionally, at least at first, in terms of stage wins. Buit he and his team did get a lot of press from it, whether they would want that kind of press is another matter.

But then, Lance's flick had the backwards effect of the Italian Federation coming to his aid, and Ballerini picking him for the Worlds etc.

I think Lance may have been re-paying the debt when the Italian Cinzano team flicked Dave Stoller.

The punchline of the movie of course is when the Dad says to Dave returned from racing the Italians, "Didnt you know everyone cheats? Well now you know!"
Words probably worth recalling here.

Lance needs to chill out.

 

[allanw]

Reuters Article

DALLAS (Reuters) - A Dallas company that specializes in underwriting prize money is withholding a $5 million bonus to Lance Armstrong until it investigates claims the Tour de France champion used performance-enhancing drugs.

SCA Promotions Inc. said it will wait to pay the bonus to Armstrong for his sixth Tour victory amid claims in the unauthorized biography "LA Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong" that the American used banned drugs. The book, written by journalists Pierre Ballester and David Walsh, contains statements from a former masseuse for Armstrong's U.S. Postal team who made the doping allegations against the American cyclist.

Armstrong and his sponsors have vigorously denied the claims, saying the Texan has passed every drug test given to him. They sought injunctions against the book in French courts, but in July, a Paris appeals court turned down a request by Armstrong asking that the book include his outright denial of the allegations.

The $5 million has been placed in a custodial account with JP Morgan, SCA said. "We are obligated to investigate the claims," said SCA attorney Chris Compton. He would not elaborate on the details of the investigation or any specific claims that are being examined.

In 2001, Tailwind Sports, the parent company of Armstrong's cycling team, paid SCA an insurance premium of $420,000 before the Tour de France to pay bonuses if Armstrong earned them.

SCA paid a $1.5 million bonus in 2002 for Armstrong's Tour victory and a $3 million bonus in for his win in 2003. Armstrong was to receive the $5 million bonus after winning his sixth straight Tour earlier this year.

Armstrong and Tailwind filed a lawsuit in a state court in Texas earlier this month seeking the $5 million bonus from SCA. The plaintiffs argue that the Tour victories have been approved by appropriate cycling authorities and that Armstrong is due the bonus.

Poor guy, lets all pitch in and help him out throught this time of need. We can start a fund rasier.

I just hate the thought of Lance's porche having slightly worn tires!

 

[li0scc0]

Poor guy, lets all pitch in and help him out throught this time of need. We can start a fund rasier.

I just hate the thought of Lance's porche having slightly worn tires!

You are still missing the point. The point is not if he has enough money. The point is a contractual agreement between two parties. Armstrong fulfilled his end of the bargain by winning his 6th TDF. Whether or not he "needs" the money, he should get it.