Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones

[Dave]

richard wrote:

>
> But I do not feel that an improper lane usage charge is not adequate as
> there was a human life involved, which is a test for reckless operation,
> and that test was met with flying colors.
> I have a sneaking hunch this will not be the last time we will hear
> about Ms. Stark and her cell phone.
>
>

Actually Ms. Stark should be prohibited from owning/using a cell phone
for the rest of her life!

 

[val189]

Yarper wrote:
> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/11/30/woman_is_sentenced_for_bicyclists_death
>
> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.

What we REALLY need are some heavy duty sentences for this type of
happening. I can't wait for the day they outlaw cell phone usage of
any kind while driving and some stiff penalties for noncompliance.
Almost got creamed today in a parking lot by two drivers screwin around
with their cellphones. Two hands on the wheel is becoming a rarity.

 

[bdbafh]

val189 wrote:
> Yarper wrote:
> > Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> > to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> > working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> > http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/11/30/woman_is_sentenced_for_bicyclists_death
> >
> > What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> > they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> What we REALLY need are some heavy duty sentences for this type of
> happening. I can't wait for the day they outlaw cell phone usage of
> any kind while driving and some stiff penalties for noncompliance.
> Almost got creamed today in a parking lot by two drivers screwin around
> with their cellphones. Two hands on the wheel is becoming a rarity.

"Two hands on the wheel is becoming a rarity."

ever hear of driving a car with a standard (non-automatic)
transmission?

-bdbafh

 

[Dave Reckoning]

"Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
>> Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
> Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>
>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
>> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in large
> numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes lanes are
> frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.

This is definatly the case. Bike lanes are the MOST dangerous. They make the
drivers think that they don't have to worry about the bikes because they are
off in their seperate lanes. The problem is that the drivers have to cross
those lanes to make turns and enter the street. Alas, sometimes the drivers
don't stay in their own lanes and drive over the bikes anyway. The worst of
them are the ones that are seperate sidewalk affairs. Also this gives the
car drivers the illusion that the street belongs to them alone. Then theye
make the bikes cross all of the streets at the worst possible place and put
the bikes in the position of having to enter the private domain of the cars
with every crossing of a side street.

The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the traffic
signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!! Street
markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that they can
drive over anything that gets in their way.

Dave Reckoning

Noblesville, Indiana

 

[nash]

"Dave Reckoning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
>>> Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>>
>> Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>>
>>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
>>> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>>
>> What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in large
>> numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes lanes are
>> frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.
>
> This is definatly the case. Bike lanes are the MOST dangerous. They make
> the drivers think that they don't have to worry about the bikes because
> they are off in their seperate lanes. The problem is that the drivers have
> to cross those lanes to make turns and enter the street. Alas, sometimes
> the drivers don't stay in their own lanes and drive over the bikes anyway.
> The worst of them are the ones that are seperate sidewalk affairs. Also
> this gives the car drivers the illusion that the street belongs to them
> alone. Then theye make the bikes cross all of the streets at the worst
> possible place and put the bikes in the position of having to enter the
> private domain of the cars with every crossing of a side street.
>
> The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the
> traffic signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!!
> Street markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that
> they can drive over anything that gets in their way.
>
> Dave Reckoning
>
> Noblesville, Indiana
Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
knowledge. Anyone?

 

[nash]

Sorry Karen forgot

"Dave Reckoning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
>>> Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>>
>> Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>>
>>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
>>> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>>
>> What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in large
>> numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes lanes are
>> frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.
>
> This is definatly the case. Bike lanes are the MOST dangerous. They make
> the drivers think that they don't have to worry about the bikes because
> they are off in their seperate lanes. The problem is that the drivers have
> to cross those lanes to make turns and enter the street. Alas, sometimes
> the drivers don't stay in their own lanes and drive over the bikes anyway.
> The worst of them are the ones that are seperate sidewalk affairs. Also
> this gives the car drivers the illusion that the street belongs to them
> alone. Then theye make the bikes cross all of the streets at the worst
> possible place and put the bikes in the position of having to enter the
> private domain of the cars with every crossing of a side street.
>
> The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the
> traffic signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!!
> Street markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that
> they can drive over anything that gets in their way.
>
> Dave Reckoning
>
> Noblesville, Indiana
>

 

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 02:32:46 GMT, "nash" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Dave Reckoning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
>>>> Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>>>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>>>
>>> Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>>>
>>>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
>>>> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>>>
>>> What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in large
>>> numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes lanes are
>>> frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.
>>
>> This is definatly the case. Bike lanes are the MOST dangerous. They make
>> the drivers think that they don't have to worry about the bikes because
>> they are off in their seperate lanes. The problem is that the drivers have
>> to cross those lanes to make turns and enter the street. Alas, sometimes
>> the drivers don't stay in their own lanes and drive over the bikes anyway.
>> The worst of them are the ones that are seperate sidewalk affairs. Also
>> this gives the car drivers the illusion that the street belongs to them
>> alone. Then theye make the bikes cross all of the streets at the worst
>> possible place and put the bikes in the position of having to enter the
>> private domain of the cars with every crossing of a side street.
>>
>> The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the
>> traffic signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!!
>> Street markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that
>> they can drive over anything that gets in their way.
>>
>> Dave Reckoning
>>
>> Noblesville, Indiana
>Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
>injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
>knowledge. Anyone?

Dear Nash,

No citation needed--the back of an envelope will do to check the claim
that "any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head injuries everyday of
the year."

Since "100's" is plural, it must mean 200 or more head injuries.

A rate of 200 cyclist head injuries every day would mean 73,000
injuries per year in "any Chinese city."

So in ten years every bicyclist in "any Chinese city" with 730,000
riders would suffer a head injury.

"Common knowledge" suggests that there is no such carnage.

As Frank Krygowski keeps pointing out, bicycling is a remarkably safe
activity for the general population.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[nash]

Sorry that was suppose to 100/ day.
no need to go postal now

peace

 

[richard]

No! (Out of curiosity, how can anyone argue in favor of a big ticket
item like separate bike lanes and be trashing the Democratic Party in
one posting?) This bimbo would have climbed over curbs and other
barriers and hit the cyclist. (Another local court screw-up - paperwork
for one of the driver's 3 previous convictions never made it to the
state DOT. She should have had her drivers license revoked prior to the
collision. Oh yeah, and one of those violations was for exceding the
speed limit by 30 mph!)

At the "sentencing", the judge seemed to be quite frustrated with Reitz
for not persuing the criminal charges. The local coroner's jury did in
fact rule it to be reckless homicide.

Our previous State's Attorney lost his job for not filing burglery
charges against a basketball player. The cycling community is just
hoping this memory stays fresh for another 2 years (when Reitz is up for
re-election).



Yarper wrote:
> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/11/30/woman_is_sentenced_for_bicyclists_death
>
> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>

 

[nash]

>>>>>As Frank Krygowski keeps pointing out, bicycling is a remarkably safe
activity for the general population.

Carl,
I was talking about Dave's Reckoning and comparing it to China which I still
think is true. no laws or signs just common sense

 

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:07:36 GMT, "nash" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Sorry that was suppose to 100/ day.
>no need to go postal now
>
>peace

Dear Nash,

Nothing postal, just basic arithmetic.

There are not 100 bicyclists with head injuries every day in "any
Chinese city."

365 x 100 = 36,500 head injuries per year in "any Chinese city."

It's unlikely that there is any such carnage.

I suppose that a citation would prove otherwise.



Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Robert Coe]

On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 20:55:40 -0500, "Dave Reckoning"
<[email protected]> wrote:
: The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the traffic
: signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!! Street
: markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that they can
: drive over anything that gets in their way.

If that's the best idea you've seen, you should find a better optometrist.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:07:36 GMT, "nash"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Sorry that was suppose to 100/ day. no need to go postal now
> >
> >peace
>
> Dear Nash,
>
> Nothing postal, just basic arithmetic.
>
> There are not 100 bicyclists with head injuries every day in "any
> Chinese city."
>
> 365 x 100 = 36,500 head injuries per year in "any Chinese city."

Not to mention that there are hundreds of Chinese cities, if not
thousands (depending on how one defines "city"). Goiing with "hundred"
and "thousand" we get a national incidence of:

36,500 x 100 = 3,650,000 per year.

36,500 x 1,000 = 36,500,000 per year.

If this was the case, then the Chinese population would be decimated
annually by bicycling-related head injuries. I would think that such
injury rates would provoke some sort of governmental or societal
response to reduce the risk.

(misc.consumers.frugal-living snipped per Karen's request, whomever she
may be. And since when do you need a newsgroup to talk about not buying
**** you don't need? Frugality is hardly a difficult concept.)

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
"val189" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Yarper wrote:
> > Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> > to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed
> > as working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> > http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/11/30/woman_is_sentenced
> > _for_bic yclists_death
> >
> > What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
> > throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> What we REALLY need are some heavy duty sentences for this type of
> happening. I can't wait for the day they outlaw cell phone usage of
> any kind while driving and some stiff penalties for noncompliance.
> Almost got creamed today in a parking lot by two drivers screwin
> around with their cellphones. Two hands on the wheel is becoming a
> rarity.

Cell phones are intended to be used while driving. You can tell this by
the fact that coverage in almost all US metropolitan areas is excellent
on highways and spotty to poor more than 1/4 away from highways. In the
Twin Cities metro are there are many, many coverage holes and my phone
(Sprint) is frequently unusable on surface streets and in neighborhoods.

Not that talking on a cell phone and driving is a good idea. A dozen
times a day or more I see people driving neglectfully while talking on
cell phones- all of them probably thinking they are driving fine. NO
ONE drives safely while talking on a cell phone, and hands free phones
don't help much if at all. If you think you can drive safely while
you're talking on your cell phone, you are delusional.

 

[Yarper]

Tim McNamara wrote:

> > Karen Newton wrote:
> > > Please don't cross-post to the frugal living group.
> >
> > You're right, Karen, bicycling has *nothing* to do with frugal
> > living. Frugal people drive 10-mile-per-gallon SUVs and own personal
> > hovercraft and Leer jets.
>
> Oh stop being an ass.

She's a control freak, so sarcasm is as warranted.

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tim McNamara <[email protected]> writes:

> And since when do you need a newsgroup to talk about not buying
> **** you don't need? Frugality is hardly a difficult concept.)

Maintaining a Simplified Lifestyle can be difficult in practice,
and there's nothing wrong with some mutual support and shared
experiences & knowledge, like where to obtain a washboard and
mangle, or how to make a smokehouse out of an old Frigidaire, or
what to feed your mule, or how to split your own cedar shakes,
or what kinds of packaging can be re-used to grow bean sprouts in.

Subscribing to a newsgroup is cheaper than subscribing
to Mother Earth News.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:11:14 GMT, "nash" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>>>>>As Frank Krygowski keeps pointing out, bicycling is a remarkably safe
>activity for the general population.
>
>Carl,
>I was talking about Dave's Reckoning and comparing it to China which I still
>think is true. no laws or signs just common sense

Dear Nash,

To jog your memory, here's your entire post:

"Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
knowledge. Anyone?"

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Tim
> McNamara <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > And since when do you need a newsgroup to talk about not buying
> > **** you don't need? Frugality is hardly a difficult concept.)
>
> Maintaining a Simplified Lifestyle can be difficult in practice, and
> there's nothing wrong with some mutual support and shared experiences
> & knowledge, like where to obtain a washboard and mangle, or how to
> make a smokehouse out of an old Frigidaire, or what to feed your
> mule, or how to split your own cedar shakes, or what kinds of
> packaging can be re-used to grow bean sprouts in.
>
> Subscribing to a newsgroup is cheaper than subscribing to Mother
> Earth News.

So is subscribing to reality.

"Simplified Lifestyle" in Capital Letters? None of those things are a
"simpler" life. Well, maybe growing your own bean sprouts. But that
confusion is not uncommon in the "voluntary simplicity" folks
hereabouts. "Rustic" and "simple" are not the same thing. But whatever
turns your crank- it's your life. I can understand doing those things
because they are enjoyable in their own right, but as a Simplified
Lifestyle...

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tim McNamara <[email protected]> writes:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>, Tim
>> McNamara <[email protected]> writes:
l>>
>> > And since when do you need a newsgroup to talk about not buying
>> > **** you don't need? Frugality is hardly a difficult concept.)
>>
>> Maintaining a Simplified Lifestyle can be difficult in practice, and
>> there's nothing wrong with some mutual support and shared experiences
>> & knowledge, like where to obtain a washboard and mangle, or how to
>> make a smokehouse out of an old Frigidaire, or what to feed your
>> mule, or how to split your own cedar shakes, or what kinds of
>> packaging can be re-used to grow bean sprouts in.
>>
>> Subscribing to a newsgroup is cheaper than subscribing to Mother
>> Earth News.
>
> So is subscribing to reality.

Who's reality? Yours? A Massai herdswomman? Or perhaps
an Innuit or Saami or Mauri?
\
> "Simplified Lifestyle" in Capital Letters? None of those things are a
> "simpler" life. Well, maybe growing your own bean sprouts. But that
> confusion is not uncommon in the "voluntary simplicity" folks
> hereabouts.

Mother Earth News subscribers?

> "Rustic" and "simple" are not the same thing. But whatever
> turns your crank- it's your life. I can understand doing those things
> because they are enjoyable in their own right, but as a Simplified
> Lifestyle...

There's stuff we need, stuff we want, stuff that's
foisted upon us, and stuff we have to discard.

That puts us in the position of having to make decisions
considering our effects on our friends and neighbours and
fellow citizens. Like how much electricity or fresh water
or health care or other resources we abusively consume at
the expense of others.

What I call "Lifestyle Simplification" is the diametric
opposite of "Conspicuous Consumersism".

Actually I regret applying these labels, because it boils
down to saying we're all either self-centred, self-interested
pigs, or we care enough about one another to not hog all the
goods for ourselves because we care about other people.
I guess the truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between.

I lean toward the caring about other people side.

I think you do, too.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 20:12:33 -0800, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
wrote:

[snip]

>Subscribing to a newsgroup is cheaper than subscribing
>to Mother Earth News.
>
>cheers,
> Tom

Dear Tom,

Mother Earth News costs $10 per year:

http://www.motherearthnews.com

The cost of a computer, a telephone/dsl/cable connection to the
internet, and the electric bill for running it all is an order of
magnitude greater.

Of course, you can use the public library computers, but the library
usually has Mother Earth News for free, too.

Off to Ralph Waldo's house now for some decent grub in civilized
surroundings. Beans are gawdawful boring outside of a book. I ate a
groundhog once, and that was enough for me. I like to listen to Ralph
re-hash "Self-Reliance" while I help myself to more chicken and
dumplings.

Cheers,

H.D. Thoreau