Campagnolo Athena



CAMPYBOB

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Sep 12, 2005
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I was on C-Record at the time...including the boat anchor Delta brakes. Yes, both groups looked great.

C-Record shifted fine, but I don't think I ever got to actually ride the Croce mech. As far as I'm concerned, even the early Victory stuff shifted fine in friction mode. Index...not so much.
 

ibi-m

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Apr 2, 2008
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alienator said:
Need? Food is a need. A component group is not. That said, Athena is 11s, while Centaur is 10s. Offering a lower cost 11s group is good for Campy. It's likely a move to bridge the transition from 10s to 11s for customers, and that Centaur--or one of the lower groups--might disappear next year or the year after.

This could also help get Campy 11s spec'd on more bikes in the future, but Campy has never really been interested in OEM bike sales.

Personally, I don't see a need for Shimano or SRAM, but they appear to be doing business anyway. If Athena sells, then bringing out a new Athena flavor was a good move on Campy's part. Personally, I think the Athena group looks pretty sharp.
i could agree with this almost 100%, but have a question, if I may:
why they don't have the cassette 11-27 (11sp, going 11-17,19,21,24,27)
available? this cassette with standard crank 53/39 would put almost everyone else out of business and would meet the needs of 99% of the riders...as it is, there is no gain in the transfer ratio range and adding cog 18 in 12-25 or 16 in 11-25 cassettes is very questionable improvement.
cheers and thanks
 

catlike

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Jun 21, 2007
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ibi-m said:
this cassette with standard crank 53/39 would put almost everyone else out of business and would meet the needs of 99% of the riders...
According to local Campagnolo advocat, term need applys on food only, therefore your question lacks intellect to post it.
 

catlike

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Jun 21, 2007
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alienator said:
This could also help get Campy 11s spec'd on more bikes in the future, but Campy has never really been interested in OEM bike sales.
And how do you find it out- Campagnolo sent answer to ypur e-mail :)). Admit it- they have been pushed out of that market by shimano and lately by sram. It does't mean Campa are not interested in OEM sales. They just can't compete, wise men.
 

[email protected]

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Dec 30, 2007
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ibi-m said:
i could agree with this almost 100%, but have a question, if I may:
why they don't have the cassette 11-27 (11sp, going 11-17,19,21,24,27)
available? this cassette with standard crank 53/39 would put almost everyone else out of business and would meet the needs of 99% of the riders...as it is, there is no gain in the transfer ratio range and adding cog 18 in 12-25 or 16 in 11-25 cassettes is very questionable improvement.
cheers and thanks

Not to me but Campagnolo has had some weird ratios for a while, like 13-26 and '13'-29. I would like to see 11 or 12 first cog thru 23, 25, 27 and 29..maybe someday as the riding public grays and compacts continue to out sell standard cranks..particularly since Campagnolo has essentially abandoned a triple. Yes I know there is Comp but the only triple compatible levers are now Xenon for 2010.
 

alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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Ask Peter about Campagnolo's history and involvement in the OEM market. Don't believe me. Ask him about the same for SRAM and Shimano. FWIW, Shimano is the company most hurt by SRAM, as SRAM has cut pretty deep into Shimano OEM sales.
 

Sikhandar

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Jul 5, 2007
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catlike said:
And how do you find it out- Campagnolo sent answer to ypur e-mail :)). Admit it- they have been pushed out of that market by shimano and lately by sram. It does't mean Campa are not interested in OEM sales. They just can't compete, wise men.
In Italy Campy has still a great market...more than 60%. And, talking with Campy staff, I got the impression they're not really interested in expanding their market a lot. They don't want to become the first in the world... they prefer to mantain their old relationships with italian frameset brands, with professional teams, with "old" customers. They don't care if the world is still 10 speed... they do something better and only who recognizes it will buy the 11 speed... Campy is not for everybody ;)
 

catlike

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Jun 21, 2007
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Sikhandar said:
In Italy Campy has still a great market...more than 60%. And, talking with Campy staff, I got the impression they're not really interested in expanding their market a lot. They don't want to become the first in the world... they prefer to mantain their old relationships with italian frameset brands, with professional teams, with "old" customers. They don't care if the world is still 10 speed... they do something better and only who recognizes it will buy the 11 speed... Campy is not for everybody ;)
The fact that Campa has more than 60% Italian market (as you say), shows, that they are interested in OEM market. I don't know how much of French, Grerman, UK and Spanish market they have- but that is definetly does't look like they are not interested in OEM (Record speced BH bikes were cheaper that Dure ace ones in my country, Chorus less than Ultegra etc..).
The campa is't for everybody as well as Shima or SRAM. It is all mater of personal preferences. Only think were both rivals can't compete with Campa is history. Personaly I don't care about it.
I would by Campa (i like thumb shifting, and like the looks of new shifters an whole centaur group), but that does't mean i should blindly belive it is somehow superior to others, or like "not for everybody". Cmon- milions own Campa- how it is "not for everybody"?
 

catlike

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Jun 21, 2007
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alienator said:
Ask Peter about Campagnolo's history and involvement in the OEM market. Don't believe me. Ask him about the same for SRAM and Shimano. FWIW, Shimano is the company most hurt by SRAM, as SRAM has cut pretty deep into Shimano OEM sales.
The fact that Shimano is more hurt by Sram does't mean Campa isnt hurt, i belive. There were plenty of people who bought Red bike instead of DA or Record one (or Rival instead of Ultegra or Centaur). And i am not talking here about how agresive campa are on wheel market, both Road and MTB (trough Fulcrum). But, what can i know.
 

Sikhandar

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Jul 5, 2007
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catlike said:
I would by Campa (i like thumb shifting, and like the looks of new shifters an whole centaur group), but that does't mean i should blindly belive it is somehow superior to others, or like "not for everybody". Cmon- milions own Campa- how it is "not for everybody"?
Wait: I don't think Campy is superior to others, I didn't say that (actually I prefer Shimano, though I'm using a Chorus... it's a matter of team materials, we switch our wheels between teammates et cetera).

I used that expression to explain the feeling that I had talking with people working with them: they do not want to expand their market to low-cost bikes or to invest seriously on entry-level groups. For instance: the 2008 gamma was: Xenon-Mirage-Veloce-Centaur-Chorus-Record. Did you ever see a complete, 8 pcs Xenon sold on a website? No. Did you ever see a OEM bike with the Xenon? Incredibly rare. The same for the Mirage. Veloce? A lot of bikes / groupsets sold, but it's not the entry-level group.

...my impression is that Campy want to focus on high-end groups also in OEM production, and the new Athena 11s is intended in this sense. It's not the entry-level (the Veloce will remain).... but it's the OEM product that will get the money out of your wallet, as it is their will. In this sense "not for everybody", nothing more...

On the wheelsets Campy is much more aggressive, I think, with the fulcrum brand, right (and, well, let's admit it, they're indeed very good products)
 

catlike

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Jun 21, 2007
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Sikhandar said:
I used that expression to explain the feeling that I had talking with people working with them: they do not want to expand their market to low-cost bikes or to invest seriously on entry-level groups. For instance: the 2008 gamma was: Xenon-Mirage-Veloce-Centaur-Chorus-Record. Did you ever see a complete, 8 pcs Xenon sold on a website? No. Did you ever see a OEM bike with the Xenon? Incredibly rare. The same for the Mirage. Veloce? A lot of bikes / groupsets sold, but it's not the entry-level group.

...my impression is that Campy want to focus on high-end groups also in OEM production, and the new Athena 11s is intended in this sense. It's not the entry-level (the Veloce will remain).... but it's the OEM product that will get the money out of your wallet, as it is their will. In this sense "not for everybody", nothing more...

On the wheelsets Campy is much more aggressive, I think, with the fulcrum brand, right (and, well, let's admit it, they're indeed very good products)
Actualy some Time entry level bikes comes with mirage, but i agree thatt is rare, and that only confirms what you are saying. (I was allways wondering how bad those entry level campa groups are compared to my sora, if they are not putting them on bikes).
But same does the SRAM- their cheapest group isn't entry level. It does looks, like Shimano there is playing alone (while microshift has't grow enough) , and it is hard to tell are they enjoing that at all.
 

ibi-m

New Member
Apr 2, 2008
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catlike said:
According to local Campagnolo advocat, term need applys on food only, therefore your question lacks intellect to post it.
you're right, I used the wrong word, perhaps 'requirements' or something else would be more appropriate.
however, the question remains - if there is no gain in the transfer ratio range and if apparently the addition of one cog above the middle range means almost nothing, why not offer 11-27 cassette?
 

[email protected]

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Dec 30, 2007
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alfeng said:
How many index 'notches' are on the 2009+ FRONT Campagnolo shifter?!?

Not enough. We have tried to install 2009 all but Xenon onto a triple and it doesn't get the FD all the way to the big ring on a triple. We have considered drilling a couple of more 'indents' on the little disc for the teeny bearings for the LH lever or using a really long armed FD that goes farther each click.
 

alfeng

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Not enough. We have tried to install 2009 all but Xenon onto a triple and it doesn't get the FD all the way to the big ring on a triple. We have considered drilling a couple of more 'indents' on the little disc for the teeny bearings for the LH lever or using a really long armed FD that goes farther each click.
Thanks for your observation on the current limitations of the new front shifter's design ...

Not that the folks at Campagnolo care what 'I' think, but the limited "indexing" is really bad news as far as I'm concerned ...

Well, thankfully there is an indexing disc which can be 'corrected' later in the future OTHERWISE I suppose I will have another excuse to stay in a pre-2009 mode -- heck, I was already thinking of allowing the drivetrains on my bikes to devolve toward only 8-speeds if/when I ever work my way through the dozen-or-so 9-and-10-speed cassettes that I have.
 

biker jk

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Oct 24, 2005
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Sikhandar said:
In Italy Campy has still a great market...more than 60%. And, talking with Campy staff, I got the impression they're not really interested in expanding their market a lot. They don't want to become the first in the world... they prefer to mantain their old relationships with italian frameset brands, with professional teams, with "old" customers. They don't care if the world is still 10 speed... they do something better and only who recognizes it will buy the 11 speed... Campy is not for everybody ;)
Certainly not for those without a $150 chain breaking tool!
 

[email protected]

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Dec 30, 2007
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biker jk said:
Certainly not for those without a $150 chain breaking tool!

Shop tool. You probably don't have a BB facing tool either. Buy one and have it for decades, like most Campagnolo tools.