Campagnolo Centaur 10sp Sloppy Shifting

[Chris]

I have found you can confirm the need for the rebuild by pulling on the rear
derail cable along the the down tube with the derail in the largest cog. If
by pulling on the cable, you can shift the the shifter with not too much
effort, then you need a rebuild.


"Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> Randall Schulz wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and derailleur
>> that has developed shifting problems. At first the symptoms--sloppy
>> shifting and a noisy derailleur--made me think the cable was fraying, but
>> when I looked under the cover of the shifter I found the cable was
>> completely intact. So then I thought perhaps the derailleur just needed
>> adjustment, but I found that I could not get an adjustment that allowed
>> smooth, reliable shifting both up and down. At the same time I noticed
>> that the rather stiff and distinct feeling that the shifter used to have
>> had become much mushier. Shifting is actually a lot quieter than it was
>> before, but in this case I don't think that's a good thing. It kind of
>> seems that the shifter has developed some play.
>>
>> The bike has about 7000 miles one it (it's been a slow year, cycling
>> wise).
>>
>> Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is
>> it
>> likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the way,
>> are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?) Is
>> this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?
>
> Randy,
>
> I'll try to stay out of the war in progress between the other posters on
> your thread.
>
> Sure, it could be the innards of your Ergopower.
>
> But before you embark on the task of getting parts for it, just confirm
> that you've covered other possible causes for bad or noisy shifting:
> - Worn chain and / or cassette
> - Shift cable passing on wrong side of cable clamping bolt on your
> derailleur. It should pass on the lower/inboard side of the bolt. Unlikely
> problem though, if you've not played with this after the time it was
> shifting well
> - Bent derailleur hanger which causes derailleur cage to be out of plane
> with cassette cogs. Happens if derailleur has been pushed in during
> transport or fall.
>
> The above checks will take about 5 mins. If they show nothing, then borrow
> someone else's right Ergopower and test it.
>
> HTH, Robert
>

 

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:16:43 GMT, "Chris" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>For quality of code, I use number of defects detected divided by the number
>of function points inspected. Issue is to know when to stop testing for
>defects, for that I suggest you look to IEEE. Assuming a well designed test
>plan and execution, I typically stop when the defect discovery rate fails to
>less than 1 defect per 8 hours of testing. I hope that helps with your job.
>
>With respect to the Campy shifter. I have three bikes and have found around
>10k miles I need to rebuild the right shifter; never needed to rebuild the
>left, even though I would think in 5.5 years using 10sp, it would be time
>for one of them to have gone.
>
>With respect to the collar, I had one fail, on 2000 Chorus, don't know if it
>was because of early generation or a crash. All other repairs, including to
>the Ultra 10, have just required new g-springs. I had a bike shop do it
>once, first time, they did not clean the guts and the lever did not shift
>great after the repair. I subsequently redid it myself including cleaning
>and regreasing. It worked better than new.

Dear Chris,

You raise a good point, namely that the right-hand shifter's collar is
the one that usually breaks, not the left, probably because riders use
it far more often as they shift the chain on the rear sprocket.

This suggests that the more ham-fisted--

Er, this suggests that the more forceful and decisive Campy riders may
bust their right-hand shift collars more often than riders with
delicate and precise shifting habits, just as Alpine mashers like
Jobst tend to break more crank eyes than riders who tour in lower
gears on flatter routes.

Similarly, Campy riders whose routes involve less shifting are likely
to find their shift collars lasting longer, just as the brake pads on
my gentle daily ride easily outlast a dozen tires.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[SYJ]

Randall Schulz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and derailleur
> that has developed shifting problems.
---/snip---

Along with the other suggestions, I would recommend looking at the
housing/ferrules. I recently had a similar problem...no matter how
much adjustment, the shifting never really worked properly, and the
action felt especially 'heavy'. Come to find out, the longitudinal
wires in the 'compressionless' housing had worked their way out through
the cable hole in the ferrule, allowing housing compression and adding
friction to the cable. A full replacement, and my bike was once again
shifting like new.

SYJ

 

[Kenny]

Randall Schulz wrote:
> Hi,
>

> Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is it
> likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the way,
> are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?) Is
> this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Randy Schulz

Did you disassemble the cassette before? If you did, maybe you put the
some of the spacers back in the wrong order. I've done this before
which resulted in funky shifting.

Kenny

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:16:43 GMT, "Chris" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>For quality of code, I use number of defects detected divided by the number
>>of function points inspected. Issue is to know when to stop testing for
>>defects, for that I suggest you look to IEEE. Assuming a well designed test
>>plan and execution, I typically stop when the defect discovery rate fails to
>>less than 1 defect per 8 hours of testing. I hope that helps with your job.
>>
>>With respect to the Campy shifter. I have three bikes and have found around
>>10k miles I need to rebuild the right shifter; never needed to rebuild the
>>left, even though I would think in 5.5 years using 10sp, it would be time
>>for one of them to have gone.
>>
>>With respect to the collar, I had one fail, on 2000 Chorus, don't know if it
>>was because of early generation or a crash. All other repairs, including to
>>the Ultra 10, have just required new g-springs. I had a bike shop do it
>>once, first time, they did not clean the guts and the lever did not shift
>>great after the repair. I subsequently redid it myself including cleaning
>>and regreasing. It worked better than new.
>
>
> Dear Chris,
>
> You raise a good point, namely that the right-hand shifter's collar is
> the one that usually breaks, not the left, probably because riders use
> it far more often as they shift the chain on the rear sprocket.

that's a good deal of the explanation carl, but there's a couple more
things to consider in this equation:

1. depending on group, the collar is made of either a carbon composite
or diecast alloy. the alloy one breaks much quicker, but both still
fail because of the design flaw with the stress riser.

2. the left hand shifter doesn't have any notchy little stress risers in it!

>
> This suggests that the more ham-fisted--
>
> Er, this suggests that the more forceful and decisive Campy riders may
> bust their right-hand shift collars more often than riders with
> delicate and precise shifting habits, just as Alpine mashers like
> Jobst tend to break more crank eyes than riders who tour in lower
> gears on flatter routes.
>
> Similarly, Campy riders whose routes involve less shifting are likely
> to find their shift collars lasting longer, just as the brake pads on
> my gentle daily ride easily outlast a dozen tires.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

 

[jim beam]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>>Randall Schulz wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and derailleur
>>>that has developed shifting problems. At first the symptoms--sloppy
>>>shifting and a noisy derailleur--made me think the cable was fraying, but
>>>when I looked under the cover of the shifter I found the cable was
>>>completely intact. So then I thought perhaps the derailleur just needed
>>>adjustment, but I found that I could not get an adjustment that allowed
>>>smooth, reliable shifting both up and down. At the same time I noticed
>>>that the rather stiff and distinct feeling that the shifter used to have
>>>had become much mushier. Shifting is actually a lot quieter than it was
>>>before, but in this case I don't think that's a good thing. It kind of
>>>seems that the shifter has developed some play.
>>>
>>>The bike has about 7000 miles one it (it's been a slow year, cycling
>>>wise).
>>>
>>>Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is it
>>>likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the way,
>>>are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?) Is
>>>this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>Randy Schulz
>>
>>yes, it's the shifting collar or g-spring carrier, whatever you call it.
>>
>>http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg
>>
>>happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.
>
>
> For the OP, probably the post on the spring carrier-EC-RE-111, easily
> fixed and Campag developed shoulders on the post and also a carbon
> spring carrier for this reason.

the shoulders on the post still don't fix it because there's still a
honking great zero radius notch at the end of the shoulder! and
throwing better materials at a design flaw in an effort to fix it is
common among junior or inexperienced engineers. especially those that
haven't bothered to consult with a materials guy! it may help defer the
inevitable, but inevitable it still remains until the design is revised.
again.

>
> For Jim...I guess when a STI lever fails ya just gotta send it in if
> it's w/i the 2 or 3 yr warranty-and probably one of those who looks to
> 'update' to the latest and greatest, you are exactly what shimano is
> looking for!!

hey, i like campy stuff! but shimano has been by far the most reliable
for me over the years. i think campy is more comfortable ergonomically
and has a good deal more "whiz bang" with much greater use of "exotic"
materials, and their brakes are excellent, but for reliability, and from
my "best use of materials within their actual capability" viewpoint,
shimano are much the better choice. [and i'm 9-speed with no plans to
change any time soon!]

my only real complaint about shimano is their road hub bearings riding
in the wet. grit gets in there and grinds them to paste real bad on the
cassette side. i've not had this problem with xt ridden in /much/
filthier conditions, but it's still a problem for which i've found
mavic's sealed bearing hubs to be a competent solution. [campy in this
situation is worse than shimano - the effectiveness of the seal behind
the cassette carrier was very unimpressive last time i looked.]

 

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:41:47 -0700, jim beam <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:16:43 GMT, "Chris" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>For quality of code, I use number of defects detected divided by the number
>>>of function points inspected. Issue is to know when to stop testing for
>>>defects, for that I suggest you look to IEEE. Assuming a well designed test
>>>plan and execution, I typically stop when the defect discovery rate fails to
>>>less than 1 defect per 8 hours of testing. I hope that helps with your job.
>>>
>>>With respect to the Campy shifter. I have three bikes and have found around
>>>10k miles I need to rebuild the right shifter; never needed to rebuild the
>>>left, even though I would think in 5.5 years using 10sp, it would be time
>>>for one of them to have gone.
>>>
>>>With respect to the collar, I had one fail, on 2000 Chorus, don't know if it
>>>was because of early generation or a crash. All other repairs, including to
>>>the Ultra 10, have just required new g-springs. I had a bike shop do it
>>>once, first time, they did not clean the guts and the lever did not shift
>>>great after the repair. I subsequently redid it myself including cleaning
>>>and regreasing. It worked better than new.
>>
>>
>> Dear Chris,
>>
>> You raise a good point, namely that the right-hand shifter's collar is
>> the one that usually breaks, not the left, probably because riders use
>> it far more often as they shift the chain on the rear sprocket.
>
>that's a good deal of the explanation carl, but there's a couple more
>things to consider in this equation:
>
>1. depending on group, the collar is made of either a carbon composite
>or diecast alloy. the alloy one breaks much quicker, but both still
>fail because of the design flaw with the stress riser.
>
>2. the left hand shifter doesn't have any notchy little stress risers in it!

Dear Jim,

You're right--er, correct.

Page 27 of this pdf shows the two versions:

http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/spares2000-B.pdf

The right-hand EC-RE111 has the little post thingy, pointing off to
the viewer's upper right, enclosed with its washer in the dotted-line
box.

No little post thingy on the left-hand EC-RE112.

It's called a spring carrier at Andrew Muzi's YellowJersey.org
instructions for repair, part I:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/ergo5.html

Where Part I is called a spring carrier:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/ergo3.html

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Randall Schulz]

Kenny,

At Tuesday 04 July 2006 17:37 in rec.bicycles.tech Kenny wrote:
> Randall Schulz wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>
>> Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is
>> it likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the
>> way, are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?)
>> Is this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Randy Schulz
>
> Did you disassemble the cassette before? If you did, maybe you put the
> some of the spacers back in the wrong order. I've done this before
> which resulted in funky shifting.

No. I pretty much stick to the routine maintenance tasks such as cable and
brake pad replacement, handlebar wrapping and, of course, tires and
tubes. (I'm a software guy. Thinking about working on hardware conjures
images of smoke... or in the case of shifters, springs flying off into
some dark, cobweb-filled corner of my apartment.)


> Kenny


Randy

 

[Randall Schulz]

Hi,

At Tuesday 04 July 2006 17:26 in rec.bicycles.tech SYJ wrote:
> Randall Schulz wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and
>> derailleur that has developed shifting problems.
> ---/snip---
>
> Along with the other suggestions, I would recommend looking at the
> housing/ferrules. I recently had a similar problem...no matter how
> much adjustment, the shifting never really worked properly, and the
> action felt especially 'heavy'. Come to find out, the longitudinal
> wires in the 'compressionless' housing had worked their way out through
> the cable hole in the ferrule, allowing housing compression and adding
> friction to the cable. A full replacement, and my bike was once again
> shifting like new.

That's probably possible, though I don't think the suddenness of the onset
of the symptoms is consistent with worn cable housing or ferrules. And
unfortunately for maintenance and diagnostic purposes, this bike has
internally routed shift and brake cables. (I love internally routed
cables, as long as nothing goes wrong, of course.)


> SYJ


Randy

 

[Robin Hubert]

jim beam wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> Randall Schulz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and
>>>> derailleur
>>>> that has developed shifting problems. At first the symptoms--sloppy
>>>> shifting and a noisy derailleur--made me think the cable was
>>>> fraying, but
>>>> when I looked under the cover of the shifter I found the cable was
>>>> completely intact. So then I thought perhaps the derailleur just needed
>>>> adjustment, but I found that I could not get an adjustment that allowed
>>>> smooth, reliable shifting both up and down. At the same time I noticed
>>>> that the rather stiff and distinct feeling that the shifter used to
>>>> have
>>>> had become much mushier. Shifting is actually a lot quieter than it was
>>>> before, but in this case I don't think that's a good thing. It kind of
>>>> seems that the shifter has developed some play.
>>>>
>>>> The bike has about 7000 miles one it (it's been a slow year, cycling
>>>> wise).
>>>>
>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or
>>>> is it
>>>> likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the
>>>> way,
>>>> are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?) Is
>>>> this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Randy Schulz
>>>
>>> yes, it's the shifting collar or g-spring carrier, whatever you call it.
>>>
>>> http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg
>>>
>>>
>>> happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.
>>
>>
>> For the OP, probably the post on the spring carrier-EC-RE-111, easily
>> fixed and Campag developed shoulders on the post and also a carbon
>> spring carrier for this reason.
>
> the shoulders on the post still don't fix it because there's still a
> honking great zero radius notch at the end of the shoulder! and
> throwing better materials at a design flaw in an effort to fix it is
> common among junior or inexperienced engineers. especially those that
> haven't bothered to consult with a materials guy! it may help defer the
> inevitable, but inevitable it still remains until the design is revised.
> again.
>
>>
>> For Jim...I guess when a STI lever fails ya just gotta send it in if
>> it's w/i the 2 or 3 yr warranty-and probably one of those who looks to
>> 'update' to the latest and greatest, you are exactly what shimano is
>> looking for!!
>
> hey, i like campy stuff! but shimano has been by far the most reliable
> for me over the years. i think campy is more comfortable ergonomically
> and has a good deal more "whiz bang" with much greater use of "exotic"
> materials, and their brakes are excellent, but for reliability, and from
> my "best use of materials within their actual capability" viewpoint,
> shimano are much the better choice. [and i'm 9-speed with no plans to
> change any time soon!]
>
> my only real complaint about shimano is their road hub bearings riding
> in the wet. grit gets in there and grinds them to paste real bad on the
> cassette side. i've not had this problem with xt ridden in /much/
> filthier conditions, but it's still a problem for which i've found
> mavic's sealed bearing hubs to be a competent solution. [campy in this
> situation is worse than shimano - the effectiveness of the seal behind
> the cassette carrier was very unimpressive last time i looked.]

Very unimpressive, indeed. OTOH, it's easy to open, clean, and lube.


Robin Hubert

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

jim beam wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > jim beam wrote:
> >
> >>Randall Schulz wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>
> >>>I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and derailleur
> >>>that has developed shifting problems. At first the symptoms--sloppy
> >>>shifting and a noisy derailleur--made me think the cable was fraying, but
> >>>when I looked under the cover of the shifter I found the cable was
> >>>completely intact. So then I thought perhaps the derailleur just needed
> >>>adjustment, but I found that I could not get an adjustment that allowed
> >>>smooth, reliable shifting both up and down. At the same time I noticed
> >>>that the rather stiff and distinct feeling that the shifter used to have
> >>>had become much mushier. Shifting is actually a lot quieter than it was
> >>>before, but in this case I don't think that's a good thing. It kind of
> >>>seems that the shifter has developed some play.
> >>>
> >>>The bike has about 7000 miles one it (it's been a slow year, cycling
> >>>wise).
> >>>
> >>>Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is it
> >>>likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the way,
> >>>are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?) Is
> >>>this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Randy Schulz
> >>
> >>yes, it's the shifting collar or g-spring carrier, whatever you call it.
> >>
> >>http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg
> >>
> >>happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.
> >
> >
> > For the OP, probably the post on the spring carrier-EC-RE-111, easily
> > fixed and Campag developed shoulders on the post and also a carbon
> > spring carrier for this reason.
>
> the shoulders on the post still don't fix it because there's still a
> honking great zero radius notch at the end of the shoulder! and
> throwing better materials at a design flaw in an effort to fix it is
> common among junior or inexperienced engineers. especially those that
> haven't bothered to consult with a materials guy! it may help defer the
> inevitable, but inevitable it still remains until the design is revised.
> again.

Like I mentioned, never saw a carbon one break in any way and modifying
the plate to have a flat 'notch' instead of one with sides eliminates
the notch at the base of the shoulders.
>
> >
> > For Jim...I guess when a STI lever fails ya just gotta send it in if
> > it's w/i the 2 or 3 yr warranty-and probably one of those who looks to
> > 'update' to the latest and greatest, you are exactly what shimano is
> > looking for!!
>
> hey, i like campy stuff! but shimano has been by far the most reliable
> for me over the years. i think campy is more comfortable ergonomically
> and has a good deal more "whiz bang" with much greater use of "exotic"
> materials, and their brakes are excellent, but for reliability, and from
> my "best use of materials within their actual capability" viewpoint,
> shimano are much the better choice. [and i'm 9-speed with no plans to
> change any time soon!]

Do ya like their, 'make a standard, use $$ to flood the market, see
that it doesn't work and then make a new standard?' Octalink and SPD-R
come to mind.
>
> my only real complaint about shimano is their road hub bearings riding
> in the wet. grit gets in there and grinds them to paste real bad on the
> cassette side. i've not had this problem with xt ridden in /much/
> filthier conditions, but it's still a problem for which i've found
> mavic's sealed bearing hubs to be a competent solution. [campy in this
> situation is worse than shimano - the effectiveness of the seal behind
> the cassette carrier was very unimpressive last time i looked.]

Need to take a close look at the shimano clone, the 7800 hubs...but not
quite as well executed as Campag. Don't forget $45 for a cone!!For 7800
hubs...with axle, whether ya need it or not.

 

[[email protected]]

Randall Schulz wrote:
>
>handlebar wrapping

Another thing to check that I don't think has been mentioned. Of course
you've long since brought this into the shop but maybe not, with the
4th?

FWIW, I had a Campy failure, very early, with an NOS rh "pointy 9sp"
lever. New g-springs returned solid shifting. Could have been a
warranty with Shimano <g>, I paid for repair. Such is life.

Like the old guy once told me on the welding shop floor, "If you stay
here long enough, you'll see everything". Springs are heat-treat items,
still something of a black art.

Since that, I've done my own g-spring replacement in another rh lever
(8, pointy) that gave long, faithful service and gave plenty of notice
when it was time to replace. PITA first time, easy second (depending on
memory, of course), a story to tell for general amusement.

I have my loyalties, but also a nice new set of Ultegra 6610's, which
AFAIC put Campy Profit and for that matter pre-Keo Looks in the
dumpster (aka ebay). (pontoons? good!)

True that Campy is going to start selling a new-design Ergo brifter
soon? --D-y

 

[jim beam]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>
>>>jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Randall Schulz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and derailleur
>>>>>that has developed shifting problems. At first the symptoms--sloppy
>>>>>shifting and a noisy derailleur--made me think the cable was fraying, but
>>>>>when I looked under the cover of the shifter I found the cable was
>>>>>completely intact. So then I thought perhaps the derailleur just needed
>>>>>adjustment, but I found that I could not get an adjustment that allowed
>>>>>smooth, reliable shifting both up and down. At the same time I noticed
>>>>>that the rather stiff and distinct feeling that the shifter used to have
>>>>>had become much mushier. Shifting is actually a lot quieter than it was
>>>>>before, but in this case I don't think that's a good thing. It kind of
>>>>>seems that the shifter has developed some play.
>>>>>
>>>>>The bike has about 7000 miles one it (it's been a slow year, cycling
>>>>>wise).
>>>>>
>>>>>Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is it
>>>>>likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the way,
>>>>>are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?) Is
>>>>>this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Randy Schulz
>>>>
>>>>yes, it's the shifting collar or g-spring carrier, whatever you call it.
>>>>
>>>>http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg
>>>>
>>>>happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.
>>>
>>>
>>>For the OP, probably the post on the spring carrier-EC-RE-111, easily
>>>fixed and Campag developed shoulders on the post and also a carbon
>>>spring carrier for this reason.
>>
>>the shoulders on the post still don't fix it because there's still a
>>honking great zero radius notch at the end of the shoulder! and
>>throwing better materials at a design flaw in an effort to fix it is
>>common among junior or inexperienced engineers. especially those that
>>haven't bothered to consult with a materials guy! it may help defer the
>>inevitable, but inevitable it still remains until the design is revised.
>> again.
>
>
> Like I mentioned, never saw a carbon one break in any way and modifying
> the plate to have a flat 'notch' instead of one with sides eliminates
> the notch at the base of the shoulders.
>
>>> For Jim...I guess when a STI lever fails ya just gotta send it in if
>>>it's w/i the 2 or 3 yr warranty-and probably one of those who looks to
>>>'update' to the latest and greatest, you are exactly what shimano is
>>>looking for!!
>>
>>hey, i like campy stuff! but shimano has been by far the most reliable
>>for me over the years. i think campy is more comfortable ergonomically
>>and has a good deal more "whiz bang" with much greater use of "exotic"
>>materials, and their brakes are excellent, but for reliability, and from
>>my "best use of materials within their actual capability" viewpoint,
>>shimano are much the better choice. [and i'm 9-speed with no plans to
>>change any time soon!]
>
>
> Do ya like their, 'make a standard, use $$ to flood the market, see
> that it doesn't work and then make a new standard?' Octalink

i like octalink. i've got 6 bikes with octalink, and never once
have i had any problems with it, including stump-pulling mtb's and a
fixie where i'd loosen the chain wheel and pull the rear axle all the
time. damned sight better than taper which used to come loose if you
didn't torque the nasal mucus out of it. octalink /is/ a better system.

> and SPD-R

i still have spd-r. not too great for clipping in & out, but utterly
reliable once you're in. ordinary spd is better though.

> come to mind.
>
>>my only real complaint about shimano is their road hub bearings riding
>>in the wet. grit gets in there and grinds them to paste real bad on the
>>cassette side. i've not had this problem with xt ridden in /much/
>>filthier conditions, but it's still a problem for which i've found
>>mavic's sealed bearing hubs to be a competent solution. [campy in this
>>situation is worse than shimano - the effectiveness of the seal behind
>>the cassette carrier was very unimpressive last time i looked.]
>
>
> Need to take a close look at the shimano clone, the 7800 hubs...but not
> quite as well executed as Campag. Don't forget $45 for a cone!!For 7800
> hubs...with axle, whether ya need it or not.
>

i'll say it again: campy do some things really well. but when it comes
to overall reliability, and from my viewpoint, design, shimano are
superior. campy don't understand materials as well, and the shifting
collar/spring carrier nonsense is in my opinion really really bad beer.
you can see shimano evolve - campy just throw more and more exotic
materials at the same old design. makes no sense to me.

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:02:59 -0600, [email protected] wrote:
>On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:41:47 -0700, jim beam <[email protected]>
>wrote:

>>2. the left hand shifter doesn't have any notchy little stress risers in it!

>You're right--er, correct.

How sinister.


Jasper