"clad in Lycra and self-righteousness"



cfsmtb

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Apr 11, 2003
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A serving of anti-cyclist pissy pants remarks from the UK, although the ensuing comments are worth clicking the link.

License those pesky cyclists *and* bring back school uniforms? Hrrmmm the morning commute & BR's could get kinda interesting ;)


*****************************

Think bike? Think of the tax, Gordon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/06/22/do2203.xml
Wednesday, 9.25am, I am in my car, about to turn into the quaintly named Fish Street Hill in the City of London. The traffic lights are green, I move forward. As I start to turn, a cyclist shoots across my path. I swerve, he swerves; I hoot, he makes an obscene gesture and then speeds off - clad in Lycra and self-righteousness. Naturally, he is cycling on the pavement - best be safe, eh?

If I had killed or seriously injured this buffoon, I might have ended up in court. No doubt I would have received a letter from one of those personal injury lawyers who hector us on afternoon television ("Been involved in an accident - and it's Not Your Fault?"), and no doubt my insurance company would feebly pay up, because it's easier than going to all the bother of a civil court case.

Perhaps because it is summer, perhaps because we are in the middle of yet another witless government-inspired "initiative" - Bike Week - there are more cyclists on the road than ever. Indeed, according to Transport for London, the number of cycle journeys in the capital has doubled in the past five years. But as the numbers of cyclists have grown, so has their arrogance.

The self-centredness of metropolitan cyclists is all too familiar: every day you see them blithely breaking the law - riding the wrong way up one-way streets, ignoring red lights, failing to stop at zebra crossings, cycling on pavements and then snarling when small children impede their progress - or just being pigs - silently cycling up behind old ladies and nearly giving them a heart attack, blowing whistles to ensure that you get out of their way, holding mass bike demos, so we all realise just how amazingly eco-friendly they are.

For it is their Green credentials that make cyclists so unspeakably smug. They are saving the planet, so the thinking goes. Therefore, to say you hate cyclists is to say you approve of clubbing seals or wearing a leopardskin coat.

The thing is, I enjoy cycling and do commute by bike in summer, a journey of seven miles from home to office and back, as it happens, so I know what I am talking about. I agree that there should be more designated cycle lanes - not just the foot-wide gutters strewn with broken glass that pass for cycle lanes in much of London. I think more traffic lights should have bike-only green lights, to allow cyclists to move off before cars, that the parks should be opened up to allow more cyclists, that potholes in the roads should be repaired.

But in return, cyclists have to realise that they are part of the road-using "community", as they would put it, and accept that just because they are not contributing to global warming, that does not give them the right to flout the law. The radical, if impractical, solution would be to license all bicycles, to give them registration numbers like cars and to require all cyclists to have third-party insurance.

Given this Government's propensity to find new and innovative ways to take our money, I am astonished no one has thought of it before.

Forty years after school uniforms were abolished in France, French politicians want to bring them back.

Well, jolly good thing, too. I approve. Even though I never fitted the skirt my mother bought for me to "grow into" when I was 11, and some rough girls on the bus pulled the little pointy thing off my beret, at least I didn't have to think about what to wear in the morning. In a world of bottle-green pleated skirts and striped ties, no one cares what you look like.

I am not sure, however, how wearing uniforms will stop French teenage girls resembling so many Lolitas - the thought troubling the politicians. Aren't "schoolgirls" up there with "nurses" as a top male fantasy?
 
While I can't say I agree with the bike reg side of things and the odd remark about lycra, the rest doesn't seem unreasonable. She seems to be saying that she does want to see more cyclists on the road and an improvement in cycling infrastructure but that cyclists should be cogniscient of their responsibilities as well as rights. That puts me pretty much in full agreement with her. Cyclists who blow by red lights, ride on the footpath, ride against the traffic annoy me too. This isn't because they directly affect me, but they reinforce the general image of the cyclist as an essentially irresponsible road user and as such they indirectly affect me. As far as the self-righteousness thing goes, there *are* cyclists who will scoot through red lights and then scream at the motorist who they've just frightened the life out of. They're rare, but they're out there and again they indirectly affect everyone who wants to ride in a responsible manner because, for better or worse, we're all tarred with the same brush in the mind of the general public. So I'm all in favour of people being expected to be responsible for their actions regardless of their mode of transport. Should I don asbestos now?
 
Resound said:
So I'm all in favour of people being expected to be responsible for their actions regardless of their mode of transport. Should I don asbestos now?


Nah - but what's so (inadvertently) amusing about articles such as this is how the perceived *problem* is so out of context to what happens in reality. Like for instance, how people are mowed down by errant cyclists. Killed by cyclists? Injuried by cyclists? Now a quadriplegic because of a cyclists actions?

I don't deny these bad events may happen, but it's put into sobering context alongside the usual terrible road stats. Not that this point is *any* excuse to act like a complete pillock while on the bike. With articles such as this, the percieved problem & risk is clearly out of perspective, but that's what we have to contend with while cyclists remain as a 'out group'.
 
The story doesn'y even make sense, he swerved in front of her but was
riding on the footpath.

Additionally I love it when they say that there a cyclist, I had a
running of the road incident about 8 years ago where I banged on the
side panel. Somehow this f*ckstick thought they were justified pushing
me off the road but had the guts to stop and say that they were a
cyclist and I was too far into the road. I don't know where they
tyhought I should be, maybe 1 inch from the gutter..
 
EuanB said:
No, but you should probably read this article if you haven't already, ``Bicyclists, Motorists and the Language of Marginilisation'' http://www.bicyclinglife.com/EffectiveAdvocacy/Marginalization.htm

Yep, read that before and it seems to be more or less saying what I was. If we want to be treated as legitimate road users, we should be prepared to accept the responsibilities as well as the rights or legitimate road users. Having some different laws in place which recognise the differences in capabilities and vulnerabilities of cars, motorbikes and bicycles is fair, but saying that we shouldn't have to be responsible, law-abiding courteous road users is not. The issues of the language used to marginalise minorities is something else altogether, but any issues that produces polarised viewpoints is going to be expressed in emotive, highly coloured language. That actually really pisses me off as I'm not interested in taking on that sort of viewpoint in adversarial terms. A road user, regardless of the mode of transport used, has to do so while interacting, as smoothly as possible, with all other road users regardless of whether they're using the same mode of transport or not. In other words, road usage is (or should be) a co-operative exercise, not an adversarial one. I exercise courtesy towards other road users and generally get courtesy in return, believe it or not. So the notion I'm pushing is that bicycles are real grown up vehicles, not toys and cyclists are real grown up road users, not children. I believe that we should push that idea on all levels, even if it means that we have to forgo a couple of convenient shortcuts in our road practice. Note that there's a difference between convenience and safety. Safety should not be compromised, but I'm quite happy to dismount and walk on footpaths, even if there's noone there and no driveways to present a danger (as an example of petty inconvenience). If it reinforces the notion that the appropriate place for a bicycle is on the road then I'm all for it.
 
Resound wrote:
> While I can't say I agree with the bike reg side of things and the odd
> remark about lycra, the rest doesn't seem unreasonable. She seems to be
> saying that she does want to see more cyclists on the road and an
> improvement in cycling infrastructure but that cyclists should be
> cogniscient of their responsibilities as well as rights. That puts me
> pretty much in full agreement with her. Cyclists who blow by red
> lights, ride on the footpath, ride against the traffic annoy me too.
> This isn't because they directly affect me, but they reinforce the
> general image of the cyclist as an essentially irresponsible road user
> and as such they indirectly affect me. As far as the self-righteousness
> thing goes, there *are* cyclists who will scoot through red lights and
> then scream at the motorist who they've just frightened the life out
> of. They're rare, but they're out there and again they indirectly
> affect everyone who wants to ride in a responsible manner because, for
> better or worse, we're all tarred with the same brush in the mind of
> the general public. So I'm all in favour of people being expected to be
> responsible for their actions regardless of their mode of transport.
> Should I don asbestos now?
>
>

All seems reasonable to me. Was some ****** on BV having a go at all
cab drivers. I called him a lycra lout and had a go at him for running
red light. He absolutely didnt get it. :) Obviously has no clue where
I was coming from.

Ahhh irony, its for when you have a spare brain cell.

Dave
 
[I am working in the city again after about five years in the 'burbs.

I am pleased to note the number of bikes parked in the city and the nymber of cyclists riding but aorta do something about those who flout the highway code.

The space between the two sets of tram lines is not a dedicate bike path!

Each evening I walk down Collins Street to Flinders Street Station.

With great regularity pedestrians crossing Swanston Street pedestrian crossing when the light changes to green are almost run down by cyclists running the red lights. The other evening I was nearly knocked over by two skateboard riders who I estimated were doing 20-25kmh.

I endorse the BV representative who stated that many cyclists are riding in the dark without lighting. When one of these clowns is struck by a car there will be howls of outrage from the cycling community about those dreadful motorists.

The cycling community should be campaigning for more law enforcement and not hoping as BV does that nice talking will educate all those feral cyclists.
What they need to receive are some heavy infringement notices in line with those imposed on motorists. There are no drivers licences to cancel but their bikes could be impounded which would cause some inconvenience.

The Shark
 
In aus.bicycle on Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:52:31 +1000
Resound <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> legitimate road users. Having some different laws in place which
> recognise the differences in capabilities and vulnerabilities of cars,
> motorbikes and bicycles is fair, but saying that we shouldn't have to


This is the key, but it's often forgotten.

The usual mindset is "cars are the norm, everything should act like a
car, with the occasional exception".

Rather than "there are different modes, and they do different things,
but need to work in together."

Might not sound like much difference, but it underlies most of the
problems other forms of transport have.

Zebee
 
coppershark wrote:
> [I am working in the city again after about five years in the 'burbs.
>
> I am pleased to note the number of bikes parked in the city and the
> nymber of cyclists riding but aorta do something about those who flout
> the highway code.
>
> The space between the two sets of tram lines is not a dedicate bike
> path!
>
> Each evening I walk down Collins Street to Flinders Street Station.
>
> With great regularity pedestrians crossing Swanston Street pedestrian
> crossing when the light changes to green are almost run down by
> cyclists running the red lights. The other evening I was nearly knocked
> over by two skateboard riders who I estimated were doing 20-25kmh.
>

Which might well be the land speed record for skateboards. Who to be
fair to my knowledge, minimal tho it is lack brakes. But you want to
post to aus.skateboarding mate. This is aus bicycles.

But console yourself with this thought. If you cross the lights when
they are green (certainly putting you in the minority of peds as far as
my experience goes) and get collected by a cyclist then A) this rarely
results in death, ( less than one every 2 years in Oz on average) and B)
the cyclist always, always gets hurt... usually worse than the ped.
Now I understand this is an imperfect solution but at similiar speeds
the 4wd running the red light is far far more likely to kill you and he
will never be hurt. The cyclist offers you a much better deal.

On my daily commute I count vehicles running red lights Its 7 to 1 in
favour of cars for the year so far. Admittedly the cars usually run the
light within a few secs of it turning from green but they dont actually
seem to look at all either. Then again I am not in the middle of the
city. Where I am told both drivers, motorcyclists, cyclists, and peds
are far stupider. Course I was told that by a tram driver :)

Dave
 
coppershark wrote:

> With great regularity pedestrians crossing Swanston Street pedestrian
> crossing when the light changes to green are almost run down by
> cyclists running the red lights. The other evening I was nearly knocked
> over by two skateboard riders who I estimated were doing 20-25kmh.


Funny, I keep hearing about people who were `nearly knocked over' by a
cyclist; I don't hear much about people actually being knocked over by
cyclist. Maybe that's because it's an exceedingly rare occurrence?

Even when it does occur the result is rarely lethal and infrequently
maiming.

Cyclists running reds `nearly knocking over pedestrians' are perceived
to be far greater threats than they actually are. If you doubt me, find
me that statistics to prove otherwise.

Bet you can't.
--
Cheers
Euan
 
cfsmtb wrote:
> A serving of anti-cyclist pissy pants remarks from the UK, although the
> ensuing comments are worth clicking the link.


I immediately saw the potential in this article. Please enjoy my
slight variation on the theme...

Wednesday, 9.25am, I am on my bike, about to turn into the quaintly
named Fish Street Hill in the City of London. The traffic lights are
green, I move forward. As I start to turn, a driver shoots across my
path. I swerve, he swerves; I yell, he makes an obscene gesture and
then speeds off - clad in a suit and self-righteousness. Naturally, he
is driving on the pavement - best be safe, eh?

<snip>

Perhaps because it is summer, perhaps because we are in the middle of
yet another witless government-inspired "initiative" - Car Week - there
are more drivers on the road than ever. Indeed, according to Transport
for London, the number of car journeys in the capital has doubled in
the past five years. But as the numbers of drivers have grown, so has
their arrogance.

The self-centredness of metropolitan drivers is all too familiar: every
day you see them blithely breaking the law - driving the wrong way up
one-way streets, ignoring red lights, failing to stop at zebra
crossings, driving on pavements and then snarling when small children
impede their progress - or just being pigs - silently driving up behind
old ladies and nearly giving them a heart attack, honking horns to
ensure that you get out of their way, holding mass car demos, so we all
realise just how amazingly un-eco-friendly they are.

For it is their anti-Green credentials that make drivers so unspeakably
smug. They are saving the planet, so the thinking goes. Therefore, to
say you hate drivers is to say you approve of clubbing seals or wearing
a leopardskin coat.

The thing is, I enjoy driving and do commute by car in summer, a
journey of seven miles from home to office and back, as it happens, so
I know what I am talking about. I agree that there should be more
designated car lanes - not just the foot-wide gutters strewn with
broken glass that pass for car lanes in much of London. I think more
traffic lights should have car-only green lights, to allow drivers to
move off before bikes, that the parks should be opened up to allow more
drivers, that potholes in the roads should be repaired.

But in return, drivers have to realise that they are part of the
road-using "community", as they would put it, and accept that just
because they are contributing to global warming, that does not give
them the right to flout the law...

<snip>
 
I dont care how less likely it is to be killed or injured as a pedestrian on a bike or any of the other justifications for cyclists breaking the road rules. The road rules serve cyclists well, legally you can utilise a traffic lane etc. Simply by doing this a cyclist is oftern annoying motorists but it is legal and most often safer for the cyclist, so bugger that motorist.

I have worked as a courier so used to ride and could still ride, well as couriers do, in total disregard to the road rules and any consideration to other road users.

Allthough the anarchist in me is attracted to this still, the roads are arguably the most serious place where our society has to interact positively with each other and in my mind there is NO justification for cyclists to think they are above this.

CC
 
cogcontrol wrote:

> I have worked as a courier so used to ride and could still ride, well
> as couriers do, in total disregard to the road rules and any
> consideration to other road users.


The majority of bicycle couriers I see in the city do obey the road
rules. Well there is this one guy who rides a fixie with no brakes
which is against the law, doesn't seem to impede him from stopping at
every red light tough.
--
Cheers
Euan
 
On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:56:32 +1000, EuanB wrote:

> Resound Wrote:
>> Should I don asbestos now?

> No, but you should probably read this article if you haven't already,
> ``Bicyclists, Motorists and the Language of Marginilisation''
> http://www.bicyclinglife.com/EffectiveAdvocacy/Marginalization.htm


Why?

It's complete rubbish. The sort of argument you expect from a humanities
graduate e.g. taking the right to assemble out of a political context and
trying to claim it as an absolute moral principal so you can override road
rules just because you don't like them. The manifest destiny stuff was
hilarious.

If drivers and law enforcement officers are not following the road rules,
then campaign against them. The law is on your side. If you don't like the
road rules then stop trying to invent bullist to claim you are superior to
them and lobby for law reform. That is a way

The reason that cycling is more dangerous than driving is the simple fact
being in tonne of metal with collision protection and airbags is a lot
safter than being in lycra and helmet designed for a 300gm impact.

dewatf.
 
dewatf said:
The reason that cycling is more dangerous than driving is the simple fact
being in tonne of metal with collision protection and airbags is a lot
safter than being in lycra and helmet designed for a 300gm impact.


Total bollox. Crash stats prove motorists are more of harm to themselves. If cycling is more dangerous than driving, as you have just claimed, why do you then ride a bicycle? Other than that, you sound like a Tim Blair clone. A rather crappy one.
 
On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:36:11 +1000, cfsmtb wrote:

It was a very sensible article I thought.

> Wednesday, 9.25am, I am in my car, about to turn into the quaintly
> named Fish Street Hill in the City of London. The traffic lights are
> green, I move forward. As I start to turn, a cyclist shoots across my
> path. I swerve, he swerves; I hoot, he makes an obscene gesture and
> then speeds off - clad in Lycra and self-righteousness. Naturally, he
> is cycling on the pavement - best be safe, eh?


Sure most cyclists are law abiding. In my experience most cyclists, because
any accident is painful or even fatal, tend to better know and repect the
road rules than many drivers. But there are those who don't. It may not be
the most important road problem, but it is still a road problem and
shouldn't be ignored. It also doesn't help with promoting cycling.

I see many cyclists swerving out around parked cars when they don't have
right of way; without looking or indicating; across streams of traffic;just
expecting cars to get out of their way and avoid collision.

There are also cyclists (particularly around the CBD) who regard cycling as
an extreme sport and think that their skill exempts them from the road
rules.

While walking into town on Monday last week I saw:

a cyclist fly at 30km/h between pedestrians down Martin Place fly straight
across a moving stream of traffic on Castlereagh St against the lights
passing centimetres infront of one car, then bunny hop the curb and
continue on at full speak using pedestrians as a slalom course.

two cyclists ride one block up the cycle lane on Williams St. One turned
left up one way street swerving between cars, the other spotted a gap and
flew right across 2 lanes of traffic and through a red right arrow onto a
side street in gap just ahead of car coming down the hill.

a cyclist riding fast and dangerously up the footpath and across red
pedestrian crossings because they didn't want to ride in the cycle lane.

And one cyclist riding properly in the cycle lane causing no problems, who
had to take evasive action when a taxi pulled out of one of the stupid
parking bays they recently put in.

dewatf.
 
On 2006-06-27, dewatf (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> The reason that cycling is more dangerous than driving is the simple fact
> being in tonne of metal with collision protection and airbags is a lot
> safter than being in lycra and helmet designed for a 300gm impact.


Actually, I'd much rather crash at 60km/h on a bike than in a car, as
long as no vehicle larger than a bike was involved in the crash. It's
all about energy dissipation, and the propensity to have little sharp
bits of stuff all around you when the car starts crumpling.

On a bike, you might end up with a broken collarbone. In a car, you
might end up having to be freed with the jaws of life, and having your
legs crushed, etc.


So I challenge your statement that cycoling is inherently more
dangerous than driving. It's only when you add stupid fools in cars
into the mix that cycling may become unnaturally dangerous.

--
TimC
"It took people a long time to figure out which machine was [mooing],
and even longer to figure out how. But for some reason it didn't take
them any time at all to figure that I'd done it." -- Paul Tomblin on ASR