Critical Mass Tunnel F*cks



On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:23:03 -0500, Thinker wrote:

>
> 60% to 75% caused by bicyclists is much higher than I expected, I thought
> it was more like 20%,
> No wonder the cops have a bias.


That's redicules. I've riden a Bike for years in the city and accross the
country. Cars are responsible for almost ALL accidents with Bikes.

Let us count the ways!

1 - Right hand turns without looking
2 - Speeding
3 - Opening Doors without looking
4 - failing to obey signal control adequately
5 - cutting too close on roads to the bike from the passanger side of the
door
6 - failure to heed bike right of way
7 - Suddenly stopping (one of my favorites)
8 - suddening changing direction to get off a road without warning
9 - failing to STOP before turning
10 - Malicious intent!

Can you think of more.

Here is the fact. I god damn car should NEVER EVER hit a bicycle. There
is no damn excuse to use that 2 tons of steal, metal and plastic is any
way which can jeopadize ANYONE, Bike pedestrain or otherwise.

People are just too selfish when they are driving. If it was there damn
necks in the noose, they would never pop that door open.

And I'll tell you another thing that contributes to the accidents is the
bicycling laws and bike lanes. The ***MOST DANGEROUS*** place for a bike
to be is on the right hand lane between the parked cars and the traffic.
Put your darn bike INTO the lane and make the cars around you respect your
space.

Ruben
 
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:25:30 +0000, Jack Dingler wrote:

> If you're between the ages of 18 and 36, have you enlisted? If you have
> family members in that age range, have you helped them enlist? If not,
> why not? Do you believe in terrorism, do you hate the American way of
> life? The only way gas is going to get cheaper is if we support our
> military and take the world's oil by force. Get out there and fight if
> you don't hate America.


As a fact, at 41, I have enlisted, fought and retired honorably from the
US Army.

Furthermore, I have 6 kids including a 13 year old and an 8 year old son.
And picks like you put them in jeopardy because your screwing around with
the necessary and complete military defeat of the Islamic Facisists.

Ruben
 
Ruben Safir wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:25:30 +0000, Jack Dingler wrote:
>
>
>
>>If you're between the ages of 18 and 36, have you enlisted? If you have
>>family members in that age range, have you helped them enlist? If not,
>>why not? Do you believe in terrorism, do you hate the American way of
>>life? The only way gas is going to get cheaper is if we support our
>>military and take the world's oil by force. Get out there and fight if
>>you don't hate America.
>>
>>
>
>
>As a fact, at 41, I have enlisted, fought and retired honorably from the
>US Army.
>
>Furthermore, I have 6 kids including a 13 year old and an 8 year old son.
>And picks like you put them in jeopardy because your screwing around with
>the necessary and complete military defeat of the Islamic Facisists.
>
>Ruben
>

Then you may be eligible to go out again. Sign back up. My car needs
gasoline and the Iraqi pipeline keeps getting bombed.

Jack Dingler
 
Jorma Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Thus, although police blame cyclist error for three-fourths
>> (75%) of cyclist fatalities, in fact, driver error was the
>> principal cause in 57% of recent fatal bicycle crashes and
>> at least a contributing cause in 78%.
>> --
>> Steven O'Neill [email protected]
>
>
>Problem is that "Right Of Way" did this determination, which is obviously
>biased and came out with a result they wanted.

Do you have a study that contradicts it?

>Even so, the percentage of accidents caused by bicyclists is somewhere in
>between 60% to 75%.
>
>Which is 2/3 to 3/4 caused by Bicyclists.

Cite?
--
Steven O'Neill [email protected]
 
"Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> writes:

> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:33:32 -0500, Tim McNamara
> <[email protected]> claims:
>
>>In point of fact, 90% of car-bike collisions are not the fault of
>>cyclists- I don't know where you got that figure but it's not
>>correct.

When quoted out of context, this is misleading and appears to claim
that 90% of car-bike collisions are the fault of the driver. That's
not what I was saying. The poster to whom I was responding claimed
that 90% of car-bike collisions are the fault of the cyclist. I don't
know what the actual percentage is precisely, but certainly less than
90% of car-bike collisions are the fault of the cyclist.

> It's probably a wash, with youths causing most of their car-bike
> collisions but adults more commonly being the victims of
> motorists. I am obviously not a statistician, but at least that is
> what I get from this data. You numbers crunchers please comment:

<snip>

There are no numbers to cruch. Ordinal ranking lends itself poorly to
quantitative statistical analysis.
 
Ken [NY) wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:25:30 GMT, Jack Dingler <[email protected]>
>claims:
>
>
>
>>If you're between the ages of 18 and 36, have you enlisted? If you have
>>family members in that age range, have you helped them enlist? If not,
>>why not? Do you believe in terrorism, do you hate the American way of
>>life?
>>
>>
>
> Have you enlisted yet, Jack?
>
>
>
I'm too old and am a bit crippled up from a car accident. I have good
days and bad days. Boot camp would probably lay me out for a year. I
actually did bother to look at enlistment options recently.

Have you noticed that Nigeria is heating up? As Exxon has a pumping and
refinery station there, US troops may be needed to subdue the populace
to keep the oil flowing. I saw a report that they are down 300,000bpd.
In such a tight market, that is significant. If they were forced to stop
production, you can bet US troops would be mobilized.

Jack Dingler
 
Ken [NY) writes:

> [A bunch of erroneous bicycle/car collision statistics.]
>
> Source: Forester, John, Effective Cycling, MIT Press, 1993
> http://www.borealisoutdoor.com/content/can-bike/crash3.htm

=v= As has already been pointed out on rec.bicycles.soc, these
stats come from police reports, and a review of police reports
by the NYC group Right Of Way shows a tendency to simply accept
the motorist's allegations when there are no eyewitnesses to
challenge them. When eyewitnesses are there, all of a sudden,
like magic, motorists turn out to be the parties mostly at
fault.

=v= As there are no other variables showing any different sort
of relationship between incidents with or without eyewitnesses,
the most viable explanation for this discrepancy is that the
motorists are telling self-serving lies. The police do not
usually investigate further, so forensic data is not available
to expose these lies.

=v= In summary: RELIABLE police reports show that motorists
are usually at fault. UNRELIABLE police reports are numerous
enough to make the official stats say that bicyclists are
usually at fault.
<_Jym_>
 
"Jorma Myers" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Problem is that "Right Of Way" did this determination, which is obviously
> biased and came out with a result they wanted.
>
> Even so, the percentage of accidents caused by bicyclists is somewhere in
> between 60% to 75%.
>
> Which is 2/3 to 3/4 caused by Bicyclists.

Citation, please.
 
"Jym Dyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ken [NY) writes:
>
> > [A bunch of erroneous bicycle/car collision statistics.]
> >
> > Source: Forester, John, Effective Cycling, MIT Press, 1993
> > http://www.borealisoutdoor.com/content/can-bike/crash3.htm
>
> =v= As has already been pointed out on rec.bicycles.soc, these
> stats come from police reports, and a review of police reports
> by the NYC group Right Of Way shows a tendency to simply accept
> the motorist's allegations when there are no eyewitnesses to
> challenge them. When eyewitnesses are there, all of a sudden,
> like magic, motorists turn out to be the parties mostly at
> fault.

So, all motorists tell lies in all accidents with all bicycles.

> =v= As there are no other variables showing any different sort
> of relationship between incidents with or without eyewitnesses,
> the most viable explanation for this discrepancy is that the
> motorists are telling self-serving lies. The police do not
> usually investigate further, so forensic data is not available
> to expose these lies.

So, => all motorists tell lies in all accidents with all bicycles.

>
> =v= In summary: RELIABLE police reports show that motorists
> are usually at fault. UNRELIABLE police reports are numerous
> enough to make the official stats say that bicyclists are
> usually at fault.

=> Conclusion Motorists are ALWAYS at fault.
=> Conclusion Bicyclists NEVER take risks while riding in the streets.

> <_Jym_telling self-serving lies_>


It is hard to accept the responsibility for causing your own death, isn't
it?
 
"Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:14:14 GMT, Jack Dingler <[email protected]>
> claims:
>
> >Ken [NY) wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:25:30 GMT, Jack Dingler <[email protected]>
> >>claims:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>If you're between the ages of 18 and 36, have you enlisted? If you have
> >>>family members in that age range, have you helped them enlist? If not,
> >>>why not? Do you believe in terrorism, do you hate the American way of
> >>>life?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Have you enlisted yet, Jack?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >I'm too old and am a bit crippled up from a car accident. I have good
> >days and bad days. Boot camp would probably lay me out for a year. I
> >actually did bother to look at enlistment options recently.
>
> I am probably older than you, and actually served in a real
> war. But I am weary of seeing you chicken hawks, who never served,
> challenging our younger people to go to war. We of my generation for
> the most part had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the
> military. Some headed for Canada to hide, some future presidents hid
> in Europe.
> Today however, despite no draft, enlistments and reenlistments
> are actually on the increase. So please leave these folks alone. This
> younger generation is putting ours to shame.
>
>

They take illegals in the MIL now too. One got killed in Iraq, brought him
back here, he had some sort of deal he would become citizen faster. He had
just got married in Mexico about 3 months ago. He wasn't a US citizen, they
said on the news.
If they would just go directly to Iraq.......
 
Ken [NY) wrote:
>
>
> Good day. Or as John Kerry would say, Bonjour.
>
> Ken (NY)

Hey, Ken--

Can you cite the source of your quotation of Kerry?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
 
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:25:51 -0700, Eric Struckhoff wrote:

> "Jorma Myers" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>> Problem is that "Right Of Way" did this determination, which is obviously
>> biased and came out with a result they wanted.
>>
>> Even so, the percentage of accidents caused by bicyclists is somewhere in
>> between 60% to 75%.
>>
>> Which is 2/3 to 3/4 caused by Bicyclists.
>
> Citation, please.

This is not what has been found in New Zealand.
Our Land Transport Safety Authority has found that motorists are in the
wrong about 67% of the time, bicyclists about 28% of the time, and unknown
or both at fault in the rest.

Peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.
 
"xooky" <[email protected]> wrote

>
> They take illegals in the MIL now too. One got killed in Iraq, brought him
> back here, he had some sort of deal he would become citizen faster. He
had
> just got married in Mexico about 3 months ago. He wasn't a US citizen,
they
> said on the news.
> If they would just go directly to Iraq.......

The US military has never refused foreign nationals. Indeed, it is often
seen as a faster route to citizenship.

And there is a difference between an 'illegal', and a foreign national.

Pete
 
>Jym Dyer [email protected]

wrote in part:

>In summary: RELIABLE police reports show that motorists
>are usually at fault. UNRELIABLE police reports are numerous
>enough to make the official stats say that bicyclists are
>usually at fault.

As someone who between 1985 and 1992 wrote countless police reports of crashes
(and yes, I always tried my best to make sure every report I wrote was
reliable) I'd have to disagree with both the above conclusions if "usually at
fault" means that more than half of the time one party bears the overwhelming
responsibility for the crash. IME in the majority of two unit crashes there's
ample fault on *both* parties involved.

Regards,
Bob Hunt
 
"Ruben Safir" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:23:03 -0500, Thinker wrote:
>
> >
> > 60% to 75% caused by bicyclists is much higher than I expected, I
thought
> > it was more like 20%,
> > No wonder the cops have a bias.
>
>
> That's redicules. I've riden a Bike for years in the city and accross the
> country. Cars are responsible for almost ALL accidents with Bikes.
>

That is obviously stupid. Time to fess-up now, boys, how do Bicyclists cause
accidents?

1 - failure to yield to car's Right hand turn
2 - Speeding - riding faster than conditions support
3 - riding too fast or failure to see Opening Doors
4 - Running Stop Signs and Red Lights
5 - failure to stay next to curb
6 - failure to stay in bike right of way
7 - Suddenly turning in front of a car (one of my favorites)
8 - suddening changing direction to get off a road without warning
9 - failing to STOP before turning
10 - Malicious intent!

> And I'll tell you another thing that contributes to the accidents is the
> bicycling laws and bike lanes. The ***MOST DANGEROUS*** place for a bike
> to be is on the right hand lane between the parked cars and the traffic.
> Put your darn bike INTO the lane and make the cars around you respect your
> space.

Use Hand Signals so they (cars) know what you are going to do.
 
"Jym Dyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ken [NY) writes:
>
> > [A bunch of erroneous bicycle/car collision statistics.]
> >
> > Source: Forester, John, Effective Cycling, MIT Press, 1993
> > http://www.borealisoutdoor.com/content/can-bike/crash3.htm
>
> =v= As has already been pointed out on rec.bicycles.soc, these
> stats come from police reports, and a review of police reports
> by the NYC group Right Of Way shows a tendency to simply accept
> the motorist's allegations when there are no eyewitnesses to
> challenge them. When eyewitnesses are there, all of a sudden,
> like magic, motorists turn out to be the parties mostly at
> fault.
>

Was the Fault reassigned in these cases, or was Right Of Way just doing a
report?
 
Ramon Shultz wrote:
> That is obviously stupid. Time to fess-up now, boys, how do Bicyclists cause
> accidents?
>
> 1 - failure to yield to car's Right hand turn

This was posted in NYC and in Australia, I'll assume USA.
What bicycles need to yield to right turning cars, the
bicycles turning left?
In Australia, I'd say no vehicle needs to yield to right turning cars.

> 3 - riding too fast or failure to see Opening Doors

You mean "riding too close to parked cars"

> 5 - failure to stay next to curb
> 6 - failure to stay in bike right of way

Are you saying "failure to stay out of my way"?

> 7 - Suddenly turning in front of a car (one of my favorites)

I think that passing the cyclist unsafely is the true cause of
most of the claims of "cyclist swerved in front of me".

> Use Hand Signals so they (cars) know what you are going to do.

Yep.
 
"Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jym Dyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [I have removed rec.bicycles.rides from the discussion.]
> >
> > > **** them off really good and they will form an army and
> > > FIGHT YOU.
> >
> > =v= No, "**** them off" doesn't do it. Keeping oil addicts
> > (and oil profit addicts) from their fix will, though.
>
> By this I presume you mean to somehow prevent people from legally
purchasing
> fuel for their vehicles. How do you propose to do this?
>
> Dave

I have posed this question - TWICE - now and have yet to receive an answer.
Why does this not surprise me?

Dave
 
Raoul Duke wrote:
>
> "Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Jym Dyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > [I have removed rec.bicycles.rides from the discussion.]
> > >
> > > > **** them off really good and they will form an army and
> > > > FIGHT YOU.
> > >
> > > =v= No, "**** them off" doesn't do it. Keeping oil addicts
> > > (and oil profit addicts) from their fix will, though.
> >
> > By this I presume you mean to somehow prevent people from legally
> purchasing
> > fuel for their vehicles. How do you propose to do this?
> >
> > Dave

I believe that global lack of oil, upsetting the oil importing nations,
is what Jym appears to be referring to.

Do you remember the oil embargo of 1974? The Saudis acting alone could cause
similar problems by cutting their output by half today. The same effect
can be achieved simply by waiting for demand to exceed the practical rate
of extraction. With demand monotone increasing, and available oil decreasing,
it will happen. Judging by the current supply problems, we won't have to
wait very long.
Mitch.
 
> How do you explain why children and teens are listed as being
> in the wrong almost all of the time, while older, more level
> headed riders are more likely the victims?

=v= The results I'm talking about are independent of that trend.
<_Jym_>
 
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