death stares
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alienator said:
What is this supposed to mean exactly? I am in the U.S. Army and I have friends who race for the Army and not only do they race but they are probably twice the cyclist you are.atomship47 said:
You're probably right. I just get pretty defensive lately when someone starts ridiculing the Army. Especially after spending two years fighting in Iraq.
I just find it suprising and upsetting when someone says wearing their national colors or a military jersey would be embarrassing. Personally I could think of no greater honor.
I just find it suprising and upsetting when someone says wearing their national colors or a military jersey would be embarrassing. Personally I could think of no greater honor.
Good idea, but you guys have guns, so whats the name of that organisation? NRA ?benkoostra said:
to tell you the truth .i'm sure these oafs on the road, can't make heads or tails out of any type jersey.as far as i know they could care less who has what on.didn't you know? fruitcakes with any goofy "get up" on should find something normal to do? it sounds like ohgodnoo has an idea what i mean. happy trails all!
i guess i am sensitive. the post must have hit too close to home. hehehe.
since we're completely off topic.....i'm more ashamed rather than embarassed by u.s. foreign policy (esp. under this admin).
unfortunately, by stating that opinion, one opens oneself up to accusations of being unamerican and besmirching the name of our men and women in the military.
very few of those in our military had influence on the decision to invade iraq. my beef is with policy-makers, profiteers and big-business that influence our admin.
i support our troops 100%. i believe this country owes the men and women who have been injured the absolute best in care and treatment. i believe the government should honor and support (financially and any other way necessary) the surviving family members of those who have died serving this country. they all deserve the highest of honors a country and its people can bestow.
that being said, the decision to invade iraq will go down as one of this countries most costly and embarassing mistakes. and i personally don't believe it was a mistake. i believe the admin had an agenda and (come hell or high water), they were going to execute that agenda. it's a terrible shame that our men and women are being maimed and killed for a cause built on lies. i feel less safe than ever and global relations are more fragile than ever because of our invasion and continued occupation. there have been more american deaths due to terrorism and more terrorist acts against the western world SINCE 9/11 and our invasion of iraq. more soldiers have died in this war than people killed on 9/11. a high price for revenge.
since we're completely off topic.....i'm more ashamed rather than embarassed by u.s. foreign policy (esp. under this admin).
unfortunately, by stating that opinion, one opens oneself up to accusations of being unamerican and besmirching the name of our men and women in the military.
very few of those in our military had influence on the decision to invade iraq. my beef is with policy-makers, profiteers and big-business that influence our admin.
i support our troops 100%. i believe this country owes the men and women who have been injured the absolute best in care and treatment. i believe the government should honor and support (financially and any other way necessary) the surviving family members of those who have died serving this country. they all deserve the highest of honors a country and its people can bestow.
that being said, the decision to invade iraq will go down as one of this countries most costly and embarassing mistakes. and i personally don't believe it was a mistake. i believe the admin had an agenda and (come hell or high water), they were going to execute that agenda. it's a terrible shame that our men and women are being maimed and killed for a cause built on lies. i feel less safe than ever and global relations are more fragile than ever because of our invasion and continued occupation. there have been more american deaths due to terrorism and more terrorist acts against the western world SINCE 9/11 and our invasion of iraq. more soldiers have died in this war than people killed on 9/11. a high price for revenge.
I understand your position and it isn't an uncommon one. That being said, however, I don't believe that your feelings towards the current administration should cause you to feel embarrassment over wearing your national colors on a jersey or a military jersey. The government now and in the past is not what the Colors represent. The Flag represents all Americans and the ideals we stand for and hold dear to our hearts. Politicians come and go and regardless of whether I agree with them or not doesn't influence how I feel about this country. That is why I am still an Officer in the Army and plan to continue my service. I'm not in the military to serve an administration even though their decisions send me to places like Iraq. I'm in the military to serve folks like you.
Now with that being said when ever I wear my U.S. Army jersey or a jersey with the Colors I do get a much different reaction from folks. I'm currently stationed in the south so that may have something to do with it also. Whenever I'm riding in these jerseys I get a lot more friendly gestures and I have actually never been treated poorly except once when a lovely couple slowed down and asked me is I had killed and children in Iraq then drove off.
Now with that being said when ever I wear my U.S. Army jersey or a jersey with the Colors I do get a much different reaction from folks. I'm currently stationed in the south so that may have something to do with it also. Whenever I'm riding in these jerseys I get a lot more friendly gestures and I have actually never been treated poorly except once when a lovely couple slowed down and asked me is I had killed and children in Iraq then drove off.
atomship47 said:
The average american, and I would venture to say as much as 80% or more of our population, has no clue what is going on in Iraq, why we went there, why we're still there, or any knowledge of the dynamics of international relations at all. The war in Iraq is, by definition, an unjust war... and for the record, I could care less. People who join the military know the implications of their decisions well before they deploy... it's the freakin' military, what did you think was gonna happen? More on it later, my battery is dead.
Obviously you missed the entire point of my post. Whether you agree with the war in Iraq shouldn't influence whether you want to wear a jersey with the National Colors on it. Do you believe that if you don't agree with the war in Iraq that you can't fly a flag at your home or wear a jersey with it? There are many things that our government does that I don't agree with just like there are many things it does that I do support. Last time I checked most Americans no longer supported the war in Iraq yet I still see folks with flags on their vehicles, at there homes, and many other places.rgunn1 said:
I guess I just don't understand what the war in Iraq or a persons views on it has to do with wearing a certain jersey.
And just for the record I have served this country for 12 years including 2 years in Iraq. I also plan on continuing to serve this country for as long as I can. So don't misconstrue my statements to mean that I am complaining about being in the military or serving in Iraq. I know exactly what is going to be expected of me for the rest of the time I serve my country. In fact I know more than you could probably imagine. I serve with this knowledge because I love my country and the people who live here.
i don't believe i "can't." i believe that much of the perception of my country (including my own perception) is based upon it's foreign policy and actions. as a result, i "choose" not to wave the flag. i believe that, by flying the flag, the perception or assumption will be that i DO support the current admin. i don't want to give anyone that impression in any way whatsoever.
while there is almost no other place i'd rather live, i truly am ashamed of my gov't (and the mentality of the "moral majority"). when i have conversations with people from other parts of the world, i almost feel obligated to apologize on behalf of my country and to point out that i don't agree now with the admin's actions...nor did i agree with them post-9/11. iraq and 9/11 aside, i'm a revisionist (the moral majority would call me an "anarchist"). i despise the fact that our system perpetuates a problem. elected officials generally get to their place in gov't via the help of big-business and special interest groups with the deepest pockets. as a result, there is a conflict of interest for the officials even before they take office. while the idea of freedom of choice is supposedly what our flag and this country stands for, i despise americans who follow the gov't blindly or vote based upon principles that contradict what this country is all about (again picking on the moral majority).
after 9/11, my opinion (which has not changed), was EXTREMELY unpopular. the majority of our population seemed to want to wave the flag and thump their chests. i despise that, sometimes, our population has what i'd call a "superiority complex."
i was outraged at 9/11. i cried during and after. however, the best we can do is to try to bring those to justice who executed and those who supported the 9/11 acts. you can't defeat terrorism. you can't win a war against an ideology.
this is an interesting point. i've debated this with others. my position is this, of course an enlisted person can't expect our country to stay out of every military conflict. they also can't expect to pick and choose when/where they will fight. they are at the mercy of our admin. HOWEVER, i think it is reasonable for our enlistees to expect that our admin (whichever it is) and the american people will act responsibly with our position, power and influence on the world.
i guess i'm an idealist....but i have the cynicism of a realist.
Well it isn't embarrasing for me. I've been in the Army for 20+ years. I was elated when they came out with the U.S. Army jersey this year. Hell, I'm thinking about buying a couple more so I can wear it on every ride. For the record, while wearing the jersey I have never gotten the two inch pass followed by the middle finger salute. In fact, people usually give me a friendly wave or a thumbs up. I guess if you can get past the embarrasment of having National Pride, the jersey may actually do some good.alienator said:
bighead, I wasn't stating any opinion on the jersey. I was just stating some of what I know about foreign policy and the knowledge of how foreign policy works by the average joe. Like stated earlier, I was in the army, ETS'd a little over a year ago, and I would be proud to wear a US Army jersey...roll on said:
Rgunn1 my initial question or problem was with people who said wearing the jersey would be embarrassing or make them angry. It doesn't bother me when people do or don't support the war. What bothers me is when someone says they are so ashamed of their Country that they wouldn't wear their National Colors.rgunn1 said:
I didn't really want to get into a discussion about the war in Iraq because I usually won't even discuss it with people who haven't actually been to Iraq. Unfortunately people make decisions and assumptions about Iraq based on things they see on Fox News, CNN, or worst of all they read it on the internet. If you are ever in my neighborhood I would gladly take you on a nice little 54 mile loop I have here and discuss the war but I won't discuss it in an internet forum. (What unit were you with in Iraq and where did you serve?)
It just upsets me when people like atomship47 state they are so embarrassed of our Country that they wouldn't wear a jersey which represents the United States. However, people like him will probably never understand why people like me love our Country and take pride in it. I don't serve in the military or fly the Colors because I want to "thump my chest" as he put it. I do it out of a love for this Nation and it's people.
I am probably going to open a can of worms here and I really don't want to get off subject but you can win a war against an ideology. We did exactly that in WWII when we fought against Nazi Germany.atomship47 said:
i beg to differ. we didn't defeat fascism, bigotry or nazi-ism. all are alive and well.
we fought and defeated countries.
you can't win a battle against religious fundamentalists and extremists. the more you fight, the more you further the cause. for most people, their faith, religion and belief in their god are all worth dying for (even more so than their country). you can dismantle a government. you can oust a leader of a country. you can't defeat fundamentalism.
