Ellsworth Truth versus Santa Cruz Blur



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"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Ventana make beautiful bikes and they are local so I was planning on getting one. The Ventana El
> > Saltamontes frame (their 'trail' bike) was going to set me back $1700 for the frame only. Fully
> > built it would have set me back $2500+.
>
> I have looked at them too. Beautiful work. But how does the rear compare to bikes with
> horst-links. Is a Ventana as good as an Ellsworth? Titus? Or Intense?
>
> Per

I think they are just as good or better. Their suspension varies from model to model, the El
Saltamontes which is their trail bike is essencially a knock off of the 4-bar (I don't know if they
license the patent or not). Since they are local I've seen a lot of them and the people who ride the
bikes swear by them. Beautiful welds and the paint jobs are awe inspiring. If I was going to spend
$1700 on a frame I wouldn't even consider anything else. Of course the fact that if a weld breaks I
can drive to the factory to have the bike fixed helps :) They make some really awesome Full
Suspension Tandem bikes as well.

-- The Ogre http://ogrehut.com

-- Dennis
 
--
http://members.rogers.com/theblackfoxx/ "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Ventana make beautiful bikes and they are local so I was planning on getting one. The Ventana El
> > Saltamontes frame (their 'trail' bike) was going to set me back $1700 for the frame only. Fully
> > built it would have set me back $2500+.
>
> I have looked at them too. Beautiful work. But how does the rear compare
to
> bikes with horst-links. Is a Ventana as good as an Ellsworth? Titus? Or Intense?
>
> Per http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/English.html
>
>

Yes
 
--
http://members.rogers.com/theblackfoxx/ "..::TBF::.." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> --
> http://members.rogers.com/theblackfoxx/ "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > Ventana make beautiful bikes and they are local so I was planning on getting one. The Ventana
> > > El Saltamontes frame (their 'trail' bike) was going to set me back $1700 for the frame only.
> > > Fully built it would have set me back $2500+.
> >
> > I have looked at them too. Beautiful work. But how does the rear compare
> to
> > bikes with horst-links. Is a Ventana as good as an Ellsworth? Titus? Or Intense?
> >
> > Per http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/English.html
> >
> >
>
> Yes
>
>

I have a review of the Blur in PDF format if anyone wants to read it.
 
"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Ventana make beautiful bikes and they are local so I was planning on getting one. The Ventana El
> > Saltamontes frame (their 'trail' bike) was going to set me back $1700 for the frame only. Fully
> > built it would have set me back $2500+.
>
> I have looked at them too. Beautiful work. But how does the rear compare to bikes with
> horst-links. Is a Ventana as good as an Ellsworth? Titus? Or Intense?
>
> Per http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/English.html

They are better than intents and smellworth, by far. They are not made by Anodozing Inc or any other
outsource, they are made by Ventana. Most of what Titus makes is made in Tempe, which keeps their
quality up as well.

JD
 
On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 07:08:21 GMT, Jonathan Bond <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>>
>> Well, sure the Blur is cheaper. It's made by Kinesis. If they made the others, they'd be
>> cheap, too.
>>
>>
>> Miles
>
> Not sure if I follow... I thought SC did [almost] all of their stuff in house?
>
> Is being made by kenisis a good thing or a bad thing? I don't care about prestige, or name, but
> its nice to have something that won't break underneath me (granted, I am only 135lbs...)
>
> Jon Bond
>
>

Santa Cruz is a marketing and design company, like Kona, Specialized, Jamis, etc. They do no
fabrication at all.

Does this make them bad bikes? Not at all. But it does make them less expensive...

Miles

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
 
> Most of what Titus makes is made in Tempe, which keeps their quality up as well.

Now, I don´t think that out sourcing a priori or production in Taiwan necessarily leads to poor
quality. In fact with lower labour cost per unit, quality can be improved.

With regard to Titus I can vouch for them. I ride a Switchblade and my wife a Racer-X. Splendid
frames. Only problem I have had with the Switchblade is a Fox bushing inlet. It wears fast.

When it comes to FS moutain bikes the US is at least five years ahead of Europe.

Per http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/English.html
 
"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Ventana make beautiful bikes and they are local so I was planning on getting one. The Ventana
> > > El Saltamontes frame (their 'trail' bike) was going to set me back $1700 for the frame only.
> > > Fully built it would have set me back $2500+.
> >
> > I have looked at them too. Beautiful work. But how does the rear compare
to
> > bikes with horst-links. Is a Ventana as good as an Ellsworth? Titus? Or Intense?
> >
> > Per http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/English.html
>
> They are better than intents and smellworth, by far. They are not made by Anodozing Inc or any
> other outsource, they are made by Ventana. Most of what Titus makes is made in Tempe, which keeps
> their quality up as well.

Some recent back concerns have caused me to opt for a FS instead of the Habanero hardtail I had
planned for my next MTB (sorry Mark). Because Ventana will do full custom geometry, I've taken a
keen interest in the El Saltamontes. But the Sycip Double Dribble also intrigues me because it uses
a Ventana rear suspension mated to a cro-moly main frame and they will do custom geometry without a
hefty upcharge.

Does anyone out there have anything good or bad to say about Sycip in general and the Double Dribble
in particular?
 
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:22:28 -0500, KLydesdale <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> > > Ventana make beautiful bikes and they are local so I was planning on getting one. The Ventana
>> > > El Saltamontes frame (their 'trail' bike) was going to set me back $1700 for the frame only.
>> > > Fully built it would have set me back $2500+.
>> >
>> > I have looked at them too. Beautiful work. But how does the rear
>> compare
> to
>> > bikes with horst-links. Is a Ventana as good as an Ellsworth? Titus?
>> Or
>> > Intense?
>> >
>> > Per http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/English.html
>>
>> They are better than intents and smellworth, by far. They are not made by Anodozing Inc or any
>> other outsource, they are made by Ventana. Most of what Titus makes is made in Tempe, which keeps
>> their quality up as well.
>
>
> Some recent back concerns have caused me to opt for a FS instead of the Habanero hardtail I had
> planned for my next MTB (sorry Mark). Because Ventana will do full custom geometry, I've taken a
> keen interest in the El Saltamontes. But the Sycip Double Dribble also intrigues me because it
> uses a Ventana rear suspension mated to a cro-moly main frame and they will do custom geometry
> without a hefty upcharge.
>
> Does anyone out there have anything good or bad to say about Sycip in general and the Double
> Dribble in particular?
>
>
>
>
>

I have two Sycips. I have owned a LOT of bikes over the years, and precious few have felt magical in
their balance and handling. Jay and Jeremy have acheived that level of ride quality with the SYcip
bikes. I absolutely love mine.

Miles

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
 
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:22:28 -0500, "KLydesdale" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> > > Ventana make beautiful bikes and they are local so I was planning on getting one. The Ventana
>> > > El Saltamontes frame (their 'trail' bike) was going to set me back $1700 for the frame only.
>> > > Fully built it would have set me back $2500+.
>> >
>> > I have looked at them too. Beautiful work. But how does the rear compare
>to
>> > bikes with horst-links. Is a Ventana as good as an Ellsworth? Titus? Or Intense?
>> >
>> > Per http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/English.html
>>
>> They are better than intents and smellworth, by far. They are not made by Anodozing Inc or any
>> other outsource, they are made by Ventana. Most of what Titus makes is made in Tempe, which keeps
>> their quality up as well.
>
>
>Some recent back concerns have caused me to opt for a FS instead of the Habanero hardtail I had
>planned for my next MTB (sorry Mark). Because Ventana will do full custom geometry, I've taken a
>keen interest in the El Saltamontes. But the Sycip Double Dribble also intrigues me because it uses
>a Ventana rear suspension mated to a cro-moly main frame and they will do custom geometry without a
>hefty upcharge.
>
>Does anyone out there have anything good or bad to say about Sycip in general and the Double
>Dribble in particular?
>
>
>

Funny, that. I seem to remember the Ventana AND Santa Cruz AS WELL as the Ellsworth frames are made
by Kinesis (USA to be correct). Small world

Peter R.
 
And now, to reverse myself. It turns out Blurs are hard to get, and an anodized black is
even harder.

I heard from several other Ellsworth owners who said the Ellsworth problem was fixed in 2002. I
called Ellsworth and found them more than helpful, and combined with ColoCyclist's sale, found the
Ellsworth much cheaper than the Blur. So, I went with the Truth.

Once I get a couple rides in, I'll post another follow up.

--
ErikEE http://www.mudhen.net

"ErikEE" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Pete,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. The more I look into this, the more I hear about heavier riders having
> trouble with Ellsworths and poor customer service.
>
> I'm going to go with the Blur, due in large part to the word of mouth I've heard about problems
> with the Ellsworth.
>
> EE "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > RE/
> > >Would you recommend saving $500 and getting the Blur frame or biting the bullet and going with
> > >the Ellsworth (I don't
> want
> > >to have to buy another frame for at least four years).
> >
> > I've got an Ellsworth Isis. Second frame. First one cracked and was
> eventually
> > replaced under warranty.
> >
> > I still like the bike a lot, but would not buy Ellsworth unless it were
> through
> > a retailer that I felt I could rely on to be the middleman on any
warranty
> > issues.
> >
> > I exercised the bad judgement of dealing with Ellsworth direct and my (strongly-held...) opinion
> > is that they are not good at dealing with the
> public.
> > Dealers maybe "yes"....Joe Public....definately not.
> > -----------------------
> > PeteCresswell
 
--
http://members.rogers.com/theblackfoxx/ "ErikEE" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And now, to reverse myself. It turns out Blurs are hard to get, and an anodized black is
> even harder.
>
> I heard from several other Ellsworth owners who said the Ellsworth problem was fixed in 2002. I
> called Ellsworth and found them more than helpful,
and
> combined with ColoCyclist's sale, found the Ellsworth much cheaper than
the
> Blur. So, I went with the Truth.
>
> Once I get a couple rides in, I'll post another follow up.
>
> --
> ErikEE http://www.mudhen.net
>
>
> "ErikEE" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Pete,
> >
> > Thanks for the feedback. The more I look into this, the more I hear
about
> > heavier riders having trouble with Ellsworths and poor customer service.
> >
> > I'm going to go with the Blur, due in large part to the word of mouth
I've
> > heard about problems with the Ellsworth.
> >
> > EE "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > RE/
> > > >Would you recommend saving $500 and getting the Blur frame or biting the bullet and going
> > > >with the Ellsworth (I don't
> > want
> > > >to have to buy another frame for at least four years).
> > >
> > > I've got an Ellsworth Isis. Second frame. First one cracked and was
> > eventually
> > > replaced under warranty.
> > >
> > > I still like the bike a lot, but would not buy Ellsworth unless it
were
> > through
> > > a retailer that I felt I could rely on to be the middleman on any
> warranty
> > > issues.
> > >
> > > I exercised the bad judgement of dealing with Ellsworth direct and my (strongly-held...)
> > > opinion is that they are not good at dealing with
the
> > public.
> > > Dealers maybe "yes"....Joe Public....definately not.
> > > -----------------------
> > > PeteCresswell
> >
> >
>
>

Sweet ride!
 
Peter R. <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Funny, that. I seem to remember the Ventana AND Santa Cruz AS WELL as the Ellsworth frames are
> made by Kinesis (USA to be correct). Small world

********. Ventanas are made by Ventana. The others may be outsourcing to make money off of their
cheesy designs, but that's their problem.

I'm wondering where you may have gotten your Ventana misinformation.

JD
 
[email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Peter R. <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > Funny, that. I seem to remember the Ventana AND Santa Cruz AS WELL as the Ellsworth frames are
> > made by Kinesis (USA to be correct). Small world
>
> ********. Ventanas are made by Ventana. The others may be outsourcing to make money off of their
> cheesy designs, but that's their problem.
>
> I'm wondering where you may have gotten your Ventana misinformation.
>
> JD

JD is right, They have a shop in Rancho Cordova which is about 45 minutes North. I've never toured
their factory but I know lots of people who have. I've met Sherwood Gibson and many of the guys on
his crew and they really take pride in their work. If you want to spend that much dough on a frame
you can't get anything better.

-- The Ogre http://ogrehut.com
 
On 29 Mar 2003 18:50:15 -0800, [email protected] (JD) wrote:

>Peter R. <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> Funny, that. I seem to remember the Ventana AND Santa Cruz AS WELL as the Ellsworth frames are
>> made by Kinesis (USA to be correct). Small world
>
>********. Ventanas are made by Ventana. The others may be outsourcing to make money off of their
>cheesy designs, but that's their problem.
>
>I'm wondering where you may have gotten your Ventana misinformation.
>
>JD

Must've been too much Trappist, then, In which case I wholeheartedly apologize (NOT about the
Trappist.) As to where I got the info, out of some US mtb rag, probably. Can't remember which one or
when. Pretty shure about the Ellsworth and the Santa Cruz though, although thay may be ******** too,
as you so eloquently put it.

Peter 'Schol' R.
 
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