not to mention the lack of cheering fans at the mine entrance when you went in or came out.Originally Posted by danfoz .
The rumor I heard is that 10 hours a day on the bike was better than 10 hours a day in the mine or factory.
not to mention the lack of cheering fans at the mine entrance when you went in or came out.Originally Posted by danfoz .
The rumor I heard is that 10 hours a day on the bike was better than 10 hours a day in the mine or factory.
Occasionally there's cheering at a mine, but it usually only happens after people learn that some of the miners survived the collapse or explosion.slovakguy said:not to mention the lack of cheering fans at the mine entrance when you went in or came out.
i can hardly believe what i was able to do 20 years ago, while not comparing to the pro ranks, its amazing what a well trained cyclist can do, on cornflakes...mmkah said:If you are or were  cyclist you should know that you cannot, for example, climb Aprica, Montirolo, Passo the Stelvio and Passo the Gavia in one day (20 stage of Giro) eating cornflakes only.
It's as fair as the DA going after the kingpin instead of the low level street dealer. What's the moral of the story? Don't aim too high, or don't start dealing in the first place?Originally Posted by mmkah .
[SIZE= medium]Lance was made an example as being the most successful and everyone is hitting on him as being the only one. That part is not fair.[/SIZE]
That's not true at all. You're reading and hearing so much about Armstrong because:mmkah said:[ Lance was made an example as being the most successful and everyone is hitting on him as being the only one. That part is not fair. There are many other cycling stars of that area that doped (and some of them are still active today) that earn money in cycling and you don’t know what else is going on as this is not publicized. You only read about Lance….not much about these 20 witnesses and others. There is a little blurb here and there and that is it. All is written about American cyclists and not much about European stars who doped for many generations.
That's just a bad, misguided statement. First, obviously the pros eat very well in the mornings before stages, and they get a lot of calories handed to them and stuffed in their pockets. As for what you are implying, regular ol' punters do those climbs, and as has been seen in recent years, clean pros are doing those climbs. Doping isn't needed to finish a grand tour, no matter the tour in question.If you are or were  cyclist you should know that you cannot, for example, climb Aprica, Montirolo, Passo the Stelvio and Passo the Gavia in one day (20 stage of Giro) eating cornflakes only.
Now you're tossing out the real BS, the argument that since so many were doping, the races were done on an equal field. Bullsh!t. First there are many ex-pros who refused to dope and were forced to exit the peloton. We don't know how those people would have fared. Second, just because riders A, B, and C dope, doesn't mean that they are doping equally. It's an absolutely false claim that if everyone is doping, the field is level. Some riders have access to better and more product than others. Some riders have access to higher tech doping regimens than others. Some riders respond differently to doping products than others. So much for that level field ****. As for Armstrong's money, he's already getting sued by SCA for upwards of $7 million, and I'll bet SCA will get a lot of that back, especially as Armstrong perjured himself in the original case and because USADA just provided a fat, juicy "fψck you" to any future Armstrong legal defense. IMHO, this is all very good for the future of cycling. King Rat was exposed; the UCI has been squeezed into a laser like spotlight; and clean riders and the ride clean movement is gaining momentum.As far as prize money is concerned it was earned beating all those other dopers (many found positive legally and proven) and was given mostly to those 20 witnesses (his teammates). So I wish them good luck to retrieve that money!
what do you mean by that ?bicicleteiro said:. Born with eyes wide-open needless to say.
Who are you talking to?TheRealStory said:I'm curious; what are your thoughts now? Â How sad that the idol you worshiped was so false, so utterly hollow that the only way he could climb to the top was by cheating. Â But even worse to retain his position on the top of a hill waiting to crash around him, Armstrong sunk to the lowest of levels. Â He used vicious innuendo and invectives to undermine those around him who knew his life -- not just his cycling career -- was a long, twisting, sordid lie. Â His bloated identity has been deflated not by accusations, but the simple truth -- the broadly accepted truth that he is a colossal fraud. Â Like all men whose lives are mounted on lies and more lies to cover up the previous lies, there are really no ruins about him. Â That would suggest he had something worth ruining. Â No instead, like Bernie Madoff, the ruins are other people's lives and he couldn't care less. Â Â I hope it's a good lesson for you to learn that the truth is in the end never alterable. Â What we have done is done. Â You can cover it up, you can mask it, you can create distortions around it, you can hide it for long periods of time, but the truth will eventually surface for what it is. In the future, you would be best to seek it out before you levy such unsubstantiated charges. Â Â You were on the wrong side of a small piece of history. Â But keep in mind, your malice was aimed at robbing a man of his honor, his life and his dignity. Â And for what? Â To shore up a man, mostly devoid of any substantive value or redeemable character. Â Not sure how you answer for that one. Â A nice start would be an open apology to Greg Lemond.
I was wondering the same thing. I guess the OP, although it doesn't quite fit.Originally Posted by alienator .
Who are you talking to?
The use of transfusions then does not mean everyone used them, just as the use of EPO from the '90's up to now doesn't mean everyone used it.vspa said:in cyclingnews there is an article linking blood transfusions to the 80's, LeMond's era,
You're preaching to the choir about LeMond's ability and his mammoth VO2. I was a big LeMond's fan back in the day - had my custom frame painted red and white, wore the Brancale shoes and even donned the Oakleys Despite that it didn't stop from wondering WTF when LeMond suddenly resurrected his Giro in a single week mid Giro. Watching him suffer on satellite TV, like a pig on a spit for the first couple weeks and the boom, podium in the TT. You're talking weeks worth of recovery in your case - in LeMond's case it was a couple of days during a particularly hard Giro. You go from being shelled out the back to getting on the podium at the TT at the end and a TT that had no special aero equipment save a skin suit and aero lid. A slight difference. Given all the evidence from published data over the past decade, even a healthy rider suffers a declining HcT levels, how does "a couple" of B12 injections cure anemia mid grand tour? Set aside any assumption that I may be insinuating something else, how does a couple of B12 injections during a 3 week Grand Tour allow you to recover from anemia and compete with the worlds best? Even EPO isn't supposed to work in just a couple of days... Amgen claim 2 to 6 weeks for Epogen to really work it's magic. B12? That LeMond took a chunk of time out of Fignon wasn't a huge surprise looking back at things and not for the usually accepted reasons. Fignon apparently had a sizeable saddle sore about the size of a piece of pepperoni. Think about that the next time you have a pizza IMHO, LeMond's greatest TT performance in the 89 Tour wasn't the final TT - it was the first long one that was almost 45 miles, IIRC. In the last 10km he took over three quarters of a minute out of Delgado who had posted the fastest time at that point. 45 seconds in 10km... and got off the bike looking like he'd just got done with a warm up. Impressive...danfoz said:I was in a highly anemic state at one point in the 90's due to an acute Crohn's attack. I was literally crapping blood. Walking up a set of stairs got me winded and light headed. I was put on a cycle of prednisone, asulfadine, and iron. No B12. Three weeks later I had recovered sufficiently to race again at my level. I didn't do great, I didn't get dropped either. Two weeks after that I placed 2nd in my local park's weekly race. I don't know enough about Greg's condition to make any qualified statements about his type of anemia. What I do know is that he has the highest recorded VO2Max of any cyclist, ever. Greg is a genetic wonder, it's a scientific fact. And it's a surprise that someone with aerobars and aero helmet made time on someone without? It's a surprise that the rider with highest recorded VO2Max ever, and a substantial aero advantage equipment-wise gained time in a TT?  Gimme a break. He may have cheated, but no overwhelming evidence of that is presented here. Â
It is important to look at all the TT's in the 89 tour, Fignon estimated Lemond's total advantage of 1:30 to 2:00 minutes because of the aero handlebars. They were in fact out of UCI's rule at the time because they gave the rider one more point of support. For some reason Fignon and Gimard didn't file a formal protest during the race.swampy1970 said:That LeMond took a chunk of time out of Fignon wasn't a huge surprise looking back at things and not for the usually accepted reasons. Fignon apparently had a sizeable saddle sore about the size of a piece of pepperoni. Think about that the next time you have a pizza IMHO, LeMond's greatest TT performance in the 89 Tour wasn't the final TT - it was the first long one that was almost 45 miles, IIRC. In the last 10km he took over three quarters of a minute out of Delgado who had posted the fastest time at that point. 45 seconds in 10km... and got off the bike looking like he'd just got done with a warm up. Impressive...
This - ALL DAY! It's comical how many of the Texan's fans want to bring down America's greatest ever cyclist just because their hero turned out to have defrauded them. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.Originally Posted by truthbetold1 .
I just came across this post when researching LeMond - YOU MAY APOLOGIZE NOW! LeMond is no PR pro but he was a Americans greatest cyclist!
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