First time looking for a road bike

[Owboduz]

Let me make sure I understand: I should be looking for:

• Carbon or composite forks, but probably not a carbon body
• Branded brakes--but I could replace these if the rest of the bike were good
• An 8+ speed cassette
• A quality shifter set/drive train--I've seen Shimano Claris and Sora get good reviews, but I don't know other brands

What else should I look for? I have found some own-brand bikes from sports retailers that match those qualities at under $750.

A short list of matches for the list above:

• Specialized Secteur Triple
• Giant Defy 3/4
• Norco Valence A3
• B'Twin Triban 500
• Felt F95
• Vitus Razor

Okay, admittedly, most of those have Tektro brakes. I think the B'Twin Triban has Shimano brakes, but it's hard to tell. The Top 3 are more expensive. The bottom 3 are retailer-specific, own-brand bikes (the Felt F95 is an exclusive at an online retailer).

If any one of these had one part that needed an upgrade, e.g. replace unbranded brakes, that wouldn't be so bad to DIY.

 

[maydog]

A carbon fork is not a necessity, but almost all manufacturers use them for these types of bikes in this price range.

Tektro brakes can work fine.

 

[AyeYo]

Yea, you don't NEED to replace the brakes, especially if they're dual pivot Tektro (not likely). It's mostly the pads that suck and are borderline unsafe.

The Scott Speedster 40 is one to consider too - or the 30 if you want to push a little higher for Tiagra.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Owboduz
Make no mistake, my hybrid was not high-end. It has a 7-gear freewheel instead of a freehub, and it has a quill stem. All told, this means that if I wanted to convert it to road bike use, I would need to replace:

• The cassette, if not the whole rear hub.
• The shifters
• The derailleurs
• The brake levers
• The handlebars
• The stem
• The rims

I might be mistaken, but I think I would have to replace the brakes as well.

So that leaves just the forks, frame, seatpost, saddle, and crankset untouched. It also leaves me without a hybrid for city and winter use.

A second bike makes more sense to me.

In order to validate that a road bike is really what I'm looking for, I will ask around at my office (the bike park is full of road bikes) and see if anyone will let me try theirs out before I "pony up" for a road bike.

FYI. A pair of used 10-speed CAMPAGNOLO shifters in good condition will cost you less than $150 (via eBay) ...

You can buy a new pair of Camapgnolo shifters (via eBay) for under $200 ...

The Campagnolo shifters will work with 99% of the 7-speed drivetrains without any effort beyond connecting the derailleur cables to the derailleurs ...

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You MAY need to replace the rear derailleur with an 8-/9-speed SHIMANO rear derailleur if your current rear derailleur does not work well ...

• I recommend the now-vintage Shimano XT (750) which should be about $30+ on eBay
• but, you could certainly choose a more recent and/or more expensive model

• handlebars for a Quill stem? probably, <$10 unless you are opting for a pair of vintage Cinelli handlebars.

[*]the handlebar tape might cost you more than a set of Drop handlebars!!!

FYI. Now, what many people apparently want to pretend is that if you put something on an frame that it must stay on that frame in perpetuity ... and so, they recommend against upgrading an old frame/bike ...

If YOU put a component on a bike, YOU can remove it & put it on another bike ...

• of course, things like brake pads & tires often stay with the bike unless they are pads for Carbon Fiber rims unless those wheels were to be 'sold' with the bike ...

If you choose a set of 11-speed Campagnolo shifters, you will be probably good-to-go for at least the next dozen-years of future Road bikes!

BTW. Whether or not you will need to change the brake calipers depends on what your bike currently has.

 

[Froze]

Originally Posted by new_rider



I don't know about anyone else, but it's a challenge for me to find an off the rack bike that fits my physique optimally. Your first bike will give you a better sense of what your next bike should be like: frame angles, head tube height, top tube. You'll also get a sense for whether you want a stiffer frame or a more comfort oriented frame. Whether you want something to tour with, or something racier. Whether you can handle very tight gearing, or wide gearing.

Theoretically, a good shop will ask a lot of questions to help you narrow down your choices to something which is best suited for you. However, a lot of novice riders don't know what they really want, and won't know until AFTER they've bought and ridden their first road bike. And often, a shop doesn't want to invest a lot of time and will want to sell a size that's been sitting in the shop for a long time, or a model that's slow to move.

A good shop should size you properly, but MOST shops are pretty lazy when it comes to proper fit. Getting a bike's fit dialed in can take 2-4 hours initially and then may require numerous visits afterwards to get the rider position optimized.

Realistically, most shop employees don't make squat and don't want to invest several weeks of intermittent visits to get a rider properly setup.

The only issue I have with getting a profit is the cost, at least where I live it's a minimum of $250 done by some young 20 something kid who was trained for 3 days and now consider a pro at fitting. And I say $250 minimum because you're not leaving there with less than a $500 bill by the time they add on the cost of parts to bring the bike up to the "pro fitters" guidelines, then with repeat visits to dial it more the cost keeps going up. So I think for a low end bike you just go on the internet and try to do the fitting yourself by visiting places like this one:

http://www.bikefit.com/s-13-road-bikes.aspx

Most people will do well on a factory sized bike, most don't need a custom built bike nor can most even afford a custom built bike, nor do most need a profit nor afford one. If you're dropping $2k plus on a bike and/or will be racing the bike then fine get a profit but expect about an average of $1,100 dollars in fitting costs and accessories over the course of a couple of months...at least that's the average where I live from people I spoke to who have had profits done here, and I live in a low cost of living city of Fort Wayne and not someplace like Los Angeles.

I think someone already mentioned this, but a hybrid is quite a bit different than a road bike on how it feels to the body for riding, and thus the comment about reducing the cost of the bike initially to see if you like the feel of a road bike after a couple of years. Again the suggestion of a used bike for around $300 would be the safer bet financially, but this is just nothing more than a suggestion, it's your purchase and you have to decide what is right for you.

 

[Owboduz]

alfeng,
I appreciate the effort on trying to save me money. I get that people often buy a new bike when a component upgrade would do. I'm just not convinced that trying to turn a cheap hybrid bike into a road bike is going to give me good results. The frames are different and have different geometry. I was never particularly impressed with my FX 7.0. It was just a bike for me to get around on (I live in a cycling-friendly city). Now that I want to get out and do more road cycling, a franken-bike that is more compromise than anything else just isn't what I was looking for.

I don't see shifters or cassettes or anything else as a done deal. In fact, the first thing I wanted to do with my FX 7.0 was replace the cassette. It came with a 14-34 and I found that I rarely used the 34, but I could usually hit the 14 on the flat, and end up with nothing to push on downhill. I was hoping to replace the cassette with a 11-28. No dice. Not without replacing the hubs. Trek shipped the FX 7.0 with a freewheel instead of a freehub, which means that the smallest gear I could possibly get is a 13--which are rare--and I would need a freewheel wrench to do the job.

So that's why I said I would need to replace my hubs if not the whole wheel. Because my rear hub is a freewheel, not a freehub.

I just don't see the point of sinking a lot of money into a cheap bike, trying to turn it into something it's not. Now, if I'd started with something a little roadier and I were trying to improve it, I'd be all for replacing alu forks with carbon forks, replacing shifters, cassette, crankset, etc. But with this bike it just seems like it's going to be an uphill battle.

I'm not set to spend a tonne of money. I came here saying that 1500 was my maximum. I've been finding some bikes that seem like they would have me set for a long time, which aren't that expensive.

There's the B'TWin Triban 500 and the Felt F95 for $650 and I just spotted that the Vitus Razor is down to $525. These are all bikes with carbon forks and Shimano SORA shifters & derailleurs. The B'TWin Triban has a full SORA groupset, minus the cassette. I could see myself spending $525 if I tried to bring my FX 7.0 up to road standards.

I know you say that I don't need to replace a lot of things, but bear in mind that I'm already not happy with the cassette on my bike. So I would be wanting to replace the rear hub, the cassette, the tyres (mine are currently 700x35c), the handlebars, the shifters/brake levers... Since I would already be replacing the hub, I would want to go for the upgrade to at least a 8 speed cassette if not a 10 or 11, which would mean a new rear derailleur as well. Even at the end of that, I'd be left with road gear on a hybrid frame. I'm not sure that's what will convince me to keep road riding.

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by Owboduz
alfeng,
I appreciate the effort on trying to save me money. I get that people often buy a new bike when a component upgrade would do. I'm just not convinced that trying to turn a cheap hybrid bike into a road bike is going to give me good results.

A lot of guys on this forum see a post like yours as an opportunity to promote their personal agendas or validate their own choices.

Here's my disclaimer--I work as a wrench for a dealer that primarily sells Trek. Here's my frank opinion--while I would love to sell you a Trek, a Trek is not necessarily your best choice.

So here's my advice--if you're going to do some serious riding on the road and you have a budget that allows you some choices, find the right tool for the job, a road bike, and buy it and equip it. There are different types of road bikes--racers, tourers, gravel racers, endurance bikes, sportive bikes, urban bikes, and on and on. Find the style that works for you and find your favorite. Then go ride the snot out of it.

 

[alfeng]

Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by Owboduz
alfeng,
I appreciate the effort on trying to save me money. I get that people often buy a new bike when a component upgrade would do. I'm just not convinced that trying to turn a cheap hybrid bike into a road bike is going to give me good results.




Originally Posted by oldbobcat .

A lot of guys on this forum see a post like yours as an opportunity to promote their personal agendas or validate their own choices.

Here's my disclaimer--I work as a wrench for a dealer that primarily sells Trek. Here's my frank opinion--while I would love to sell you a Trek, a Trek is not necessarily your best choice.

So here's my advice--if you're going to do some serious riding on the road and you have a budget that allows you some choices, find the right tool for the job, a road bike, and buy it and equip it. There are different types of road bikes--racers, tourers, gravel racers, endurance bikes, sportive bikes, urban bikes, and on and on. Find the style that works for you and find your favorite. Then go ride the snot out of it.

WAIT ...

What?!?

Are you trying to suggest that 'I' have an agenda OTHER THAN hoping that people should get the most bike for their money?

OR, were you simply making a general statement about people in general?

No matter ...

FWIW. While I certainly do NOT know what type of Hybrid the OP has ... let me reiterate from prior posts that "I love Hybrid bike frames."

BUT, FIRST. The OP can replace his plebeian Freewheel with a 7-SPEED 13-25 SunRace Freewheel ($17) ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-R30-7-speed-13-25t-freewheel-HG-Shimano-Cassette-Compatible-/350677745163?pt=US_Cassettes_Freewheels_Cogs&hash=item51a605be0b​

After VAT/etc. a SunRace Freewheel should be available in the UK for about £15 +/-.

IMO, the difference between a 14t smallest Cog & a 13t is more than most people realize ...

While most Hybrids may be handicapped with a 48t largest Chainring, that provides a taller gear when paired with a 13t Cog than most people probably realize ...

If a person can push a 12t or 11t Cog with a 53t Chainring (for example) for an extended period of time then they need to find a sponsor!!!

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Obviously, I think that there is NOTHING WRONG with rebuilding a Hybrid frame with Road components ...

FWIW. Here is my Hybrid frame which is shown with a steel Cyclocross fork & Road components in a partial state of assembly (as shown, it still needed a front derailleur, rear calipers, cables/housing, handlebar tape, and pedals ... different colored hoods would probably be a good idea!!!) ....

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With the CX fork, the Head Tube angle is a comparatively slack ~72º ...

• 72º is within the normal range for the Head Tube angle for a Road bike.

With a Road fork, I believe the Head Tube angle will be ~73º ... and, the BB drop will be in vogue with what some people feel is appropriately low!

REALLY, the bottom line is that the fork, Headset, Shifters, and Handlebars are not permanently wedded to the pictured frame ...

• The Kelly CX Fork + Chris King Headset + Campagnolo shifters, alone, would probably cost more to replace at oldbobcat's bike shop than some of the bikes which the OP is looking at, BTW ....

Similarly, neither is the now-vintage XTR rear derailleur nor Centaur crankset wedded to the particular frame ...

NOR, the wheels.

Regardless, ONE THING which 'I' recommend is that the OP takes the time to look at a bike with SORA shifters/derailleurs. Nice, huh?

Now, he should look at a bike with TIAGRA components. Hey, that's nice, too!

Now, he should look at a bike with 105 components. Okay ... and, the point is what?!?

And now, he should look at a bike with Ultegra components. Hmmm ...

And finally, he should look at a bike with Dura Ace components.

AND then, he should go back to the bike with the Sora and/or Tiagra components.

If one really can't see the difference, then why pay the difference?

But, if an individual CAN see the difference, then piecing together a Frankenbike with (nicer) components just seems to make more sense to me BECAUSE components (nice-or-otherwise) can almost always be moved to another bike.frame in the future ...

• it certainly makes more sense (to me) to update an existing Hybrid frame with reasonably good components which can eventually migrate to another frame if the owner chooses than to buy a truly lesser "Road" bike which will probably have disappointing (but, usable) components.

So, the point is one may as well get components which do not encourage subsequent repeated upgrades.

SECOND. While I love Shimano components, there is a pretty large difference between the low end & the better stuff; and, while many people are happy with SORA components, many are not ...

• If the more enthusiastic riders were as happy as the naive riders are, then there would not have been such an enthusiastic migration to SRAM's shifters.

• While a bike whose components are solely Campagnolo equipped is often ridiculously expensive, Campagnolo components are not just for the cognoscenti OR sponsored riders ...

• The beauty of Campagnolo shifters is that they can be used with non-Campagnolo drivetrains.

• While I have several Campagnolo derailleurs (front & rear), I only have one bike which is currently set up with a Campagnolo rear derailleur BECAUSE it just isn't necessary & 'I' am not a sponsored rider.

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I may certainly be alone in my thinking, but by my reckoning, allowing that a bike has a reasonably good Rigid Fork & well adjusted Headset, then the rest of the bike AND rider are really just the Caboose behind the front wheel ...

If you aren't racing Crits, then a 72º head tube angle is more than acceptable.

If you aren't racing Crits, a longer chainstay will provide a better riding bike.

BTW. If a person has a non-Road bike, then ONE thing which everyone can sort out before ponying up for ANY Road bike is to find the fit that works for THEM ...

BTW2. The WORST (?) thing that will happen with any proposed Frankenbike which has Campagnolo shifters is that the potential rider is exposed to how well Campagnolo shifters function even when mated to Shimano components (i.e., flawless shifting)... and thereby, establish a very high bar for other shifters to try to achieve.

BTW3. IMO, it's worth moving UP to the BTwin 700 which has the 105 components rather than to choose the more modest version with the Sora components ...

• As I just noted in another thread, shifting should improved with a better outer chainring which has ramping-and-pinning which is better defined
• OR, of course, switching to a pair of Campagnolo shifters will greatly improve the shifting if any deficiency is found AFTER all proper adjustments have been made to the drivetrain.

 

[Owboduz]

I know that the 14 to 13 transition would make a big difference. 25 to 27 mph at 90rpm, in fact, so 8%.

I've done my due diligence. It would cost me $450 (tax excluded) to get my frame close to the equivalent of the range of bikes I'm looking at. I know I don't HAVE to replace all of these things to make a "road bike" but I was never looking for the lowest priced road bike on the market anyway. Replacing the wheels, cassette, etc is to deal with my current frustrations with my bike. I don't want to convert it to a road bike and still have those frustrations lingering.

$35 for road tires (700x25c)
$80 for road wheels (needed to fit road tires--existing rims are bontrager At-550)
$15 for an 8-speed cassette (to fit the road wheels)
$30 for an 8-speed derailleur (to fit the 8-speed cassette)
$120 for shifters
$30 for handle bars
$30 for a stem/headset
$90 for a carbon fork
$15 for bar tape

That's only $75 less than one of the bikes I was looking at. What's the advantage of doing this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfeng . FWIW. Here is my Hybrid frame which is shown with a steel Cyclocross fork & Road components in a partial state of assembly (as shown, it still needed a front derailleur, rear calipers, cables/housing, handlebar tape, and pedals ... different colored hoods would probably be a good idea!!!) ....

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I think you've made my point exactly. There you have an almost-bike. It's still missing a bunch of things. I don't want an almost road bike. I want a road bike.

Originally Posted by alfeng .
BTW3. IMO, it's worth moving UP to the BTwin 700 which has the 105 components rather than to choose the more modest version with the Sora components ...

Thanks for the suggestion. I guess I'll need to work out whether the 105 groupset is worth the extra $450--the difference between the Triban 500 and the Triban 700.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Owboduz
I think you've made my point exactly. There you have an almost-bike. It's still missing a bunch of things. I don't want an almost road bike. I want a road bike.

FWIW. Unfortunately, I apparently made MY point poorly ...

The pictured bike is only "missing" components because I did not bother to put them on before taking the in-transition picture ...

The frame needed/needs to be touched up ...

It would certainly take me less than 2 hours to attach the missing components, cut the housing & cables, and wrap the handlebars ...

It would probably take oldbobcat about 30 minutes of his time to perform the same tasks.

Figure any amount of time you want for YOU to add similar components to a similarly unfinished bike frame.

AFTER you own your "Road" bike, you will have to change the handlebar tape from time-to-time

Of course, some people never do.

You can either learn to remove/re-attach cables or make someone like oldbobcat happy as you fork over £25+ for the labor.

The point which I failed to make was that for the non-competitive rider, the frame is really just something to orient the rider & components AND is pretty much an aesthetic choice AFTER one allows for the maximum tyre size which the frame-and-fork can accommodate ...

The tyre size which a frame and fork can handle is a bigger deal than you may realize ...

It must have been about 12 years ago when I was talking to someone who had just had a custom WATERFORD frame built for himself ...

The built bike was just over 16 lbs. (he is a weight weenie) with a porky Brooks B17 saddle attached to it!!!

His lamentation was that the Carbon Fibre fork he had could NOT accommodate a 700x28 tyre ...

The point that I was trying to make which was lost is that you would have to spend in the vicinity of £1400+ for a bike with comparable components to simply amending (almost) an(y) existing frame + £400-to-£$1000 in components (less cost if you are a wise shopper ... more if you are an extravagant shopper, but then you would have a bike closer to one which would cost you £2000+ at a shop) .

FYI. So, for me, the first revelation was when I put a relatively nice Carbon Fibre LOOK fork on my mid-80s vintage Peugeot ...

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While the CF fork reduced the weight of the bike by at least a pound, It did NOT change the ride in a perceptible way ...

HMmmmm.

An extension of THAT particular cycle frame/fork related revelation occurred when I compared the Peugeot to my fancy-schmancy full CF framed bike where the only difference in the geometry of the two frames was that the mid-80s vintage steel frame's chainstays were a bit longer ...

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Subjectively, the ride was/is NOT different while riding on mountain roadways!!!!

Other than the brake calipers and Handlebar bend, the Peugeot was equipped with comparable-or-the-same drivetrain components ...

1. Dura Ace crankset (Octalink BB)
2. XTR rear derailleur
3. Ultegra front derailleur

And, the same level of wheels.
Consequently, the Peugeot went from being just my "Winter" bike to being the test bed for "new" components

Sad to say, THAT was a $4000+ (?!?) lesson to learn that the frame & rider are, for the most part, simply the Caboose ...

• now, if I were racing, particularly Crits, my perspective on the frames could possibly be different BECAUSE the Peugeot was about 4 lbs heavier than the Colnago ~3 lbs. for the frame
• almost a pound for the steel steerer on the threaded LOOK fork
• a few ounces here-and-there for the alloy seatpost vs. the CF seatpost AND the odd bits

That is to say, that while almost ALL Shimano components (other than their shifters!!!) are pretty good regardless of the level, NICE components are nicer ... particularly for the "Wrench" to work with ...

And so, it's generally worth it (IMO) to pony up a little more for better components over this-or-that frameset if one has the budget for it ...

And, the sweet spot for ALL the major component groups is a level or two below the high-zoot stuff ...

• so, that means choosing either Ultegra or 105 instead of components from a lesser group or instead of Dura Ace
• and similarly, choosing either Chorus or Athena instead of Super/-Record the gulf between Chorus & Athena is greater than between Ultegra & 105 ... where the obvious-to-me difference (beyond finish) with the 105 is what I have referred to as the "amorphous ramping-and-pinning" on the 105-and-below chainrings + the Ultegra rear derailleur's pulleys have ball bearings instead of bushings ... the former is easily "corrected" with a different chainring when the time comes OR if shifting to the larger chainring is too annoying ...
• the latter (ball bearings for the pulley wheels) is probably of dubious real value (IMO).

The compromises on the component levels below the fore mentioned is not great ... mostly weight & finish ...

So, it then becomes an economic and/or aesthetic choice.

Of course, even for the non-sponsored rider, the frame IS an aesthetic choice ...

And, if you feel that a "Road" frame is what you want, then ...

You just need to be aware that between ~1990 & now, THAT mostly meant a frame whose largest usable tyre size was limited to 700x28 ...

And, from about 2001 & now, a 700x25 was often the largest usable tyre size that a CF fork could accommodate.

It seems like it as sometime in the 80s when dedicated CX frames were being made, BTW ...

I'll credit Pinarello, but it was possibly/probably someone else.

Well, THAT's my observation based on what may be deemed to be faulty recollection of what has transpired over the decades!

FAT(ter) tyres are in vogue for the kool-kids, now, so many more CF forks will probably be able to accommodate 700x28 tyres, henceforth.

THAT's a long way of saying that a Hybrid frame is basically a Touring and/or CX frame with a (pronounced) sloping Top Tube which is often sold with a dubious Suspension Fork & lesser components.

BTW. This was MY "real" Cyclocross frame (c2001) which contributed the fork to my "Hybrid" frame ...

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It has the same, comparatively "slack" 72º Head Tube angle ...

The longer chainstay that is found on a typical Hybrid frame than is found on a CX frame is the biggest difference in the geometry.

Yes, a more competitive rider of my height would probably have chosen CX frame which is one-size-smaller.
BTW. The particular CX frame was designed to be built without a front derailleur (i.e., NO cable stops/guides on the frame for a front derailleur cable) & the pic was taken during a re-build when I was trying to see how tedious/realistic it would be for me to add one.

 

[Owboduz]

Alfeng,
I have not made myself clear. I do not want to upgrade my hybrid. My hybrid has a history of disappointing me. It is built with cheap components, which is not unexpected, and I should have shopped around more before buying it. I admit that it is possible to upgrade. I remain unconvinced that trying to turn a heavy hybrid frame into a road bike is anything more than an exercise in futility. I'm not going to argue about it anymore. I have taken one lesson away from this thread, though, everything other than the frame can be upgraded, so a good frame is more important than anything else.

Unfortunately, I suspect that all the people who were trying to answer the question I actually asked--what should a road cycling newbie look for in a road bike/which road bike should I look at in my budget--have probably left this thread now.

For anyone who was interested in helping with my original question: I tried riding three bikes today at the LBS. A Giant Defy 4, a Cannondale Synapse 8 and a Specialized Roubaix (They didn't have a large enough Secteur in the showroom for me to try, so it was more about frame geometry than anything else).

I liked the positioning of the Defy 4, but I think it had the seat adjusted further back than either the Synapse or the Roubaix. When I put power into the Synapse, it took off. My hybrid doesn't accelerate nearly that fast. The Roubaix didn't get set quite right before I tried it, so I didn't have as much power as I should have, but I could feel that it would be nice.

I think I want a triple crank, rather than a compact double. I know I'll want rack eyelets

So the question remains: is it more worth my while to get a store own-brand (like the B'TWin Triban 500) and save the money, or should I go for one of the big brands at the LBS: Cannondale Synapse, Specialized Secteur, or Giant Defy? It's mostly aesthetic, but I like the internal cable routing on the Cannondale.

The LBS has offered to let me take a bike out for an extended test ride, which seems awfully nice (caveats, forms, deposits).

 

[AyeYo]

What makes you want a triple? You can get ridiculously low gearing on a compact.

 

[Owboduz]

Most of the cassettes I've seen end at 28 or lower, with most compact doubles having a lower gear of 34. 34/28=1.21. With my current bike the lowest gearing I tend to use is 30/24=1.25. I'm looking at triples because they seem to match my fitness better. I could probably get by on a compact double as long as the cassette went up to 28.

 

[Bluman]

I think the lower end Defys (3 & 5) are listed on Giant's website with 11x32 cassettes with 50/34 for the crank. My Defy 2 is 50/34 up front and a Shimano 12x30 in the back... and I'm wimpy enough still to need 34/30 from time to time on 12%+ grades. (Though too much more + and I'm walking up the darn hill. :-/)

 

[Owboduz]

If I really can get as low as 34x30, that should be fine. That said, I do like the idea of smoother gear transitions. That jump from 24 to 34 on the Shimano Megarange is really jarring... A 12-25 is going to have smoother transitions than an 11-32... I guess that's the motivation for getting Sora rather than Claris! I don't think that I'm in the market for Tiagra and above for my first bike. Maybe one of those groupsets can be an upgrade later on if I really need more gears. As long as the frame is good, why not!?

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Owboduz
Alfeng,
I have not made myself clear. I do not want to upgrade my hybrid. My hybrid has a history of disappointing me. It is built with cheap components, which is not unexpected, and I should have shopped around more before buying it. I admit that it is possible to upgrade. I remain unconvinced that trying to turn a heavy hybrid frame into a road bike is anything more than an exercise in futility. I'm not going to argue about it anymore. I have taken one lesson away from this thread, though, everything other than the frame can be upgraded, so a good frame is more important than anything else.

Unfortunately, I suspect that all the people who were trying to answer the question I actually asked--what should a road cycling newbie look for in a road bike/which road bike should I look at in my budget--have probably left this thread now.

For anyone who was interested in helping with my original question: I tried riding three bikes today at the LBS. A Giant Defy 4, a Cannondale Synapse 8 and a Specialized Roubaix (They didn't have a large enough Secteur in the showroom for me to try, so it was more about frame geometry than anything else).

I liked the positioning of the Defy 4, but I think it had the seat adjusted further back than either the Synapse or the Roubaix. When I put power into the Synapse, it took off. My hybrid doesn't accelerate nearly that fast. The Roubaix didn't get set quite right before I tried it, so I didn't have as much power as I should have, but I could feel that it would be nice.

I think I want a triple crank, rather than a compact double. I know I'll want rack eyelets

So the question remains: is it more worth my while to get a store own-brand (like the B'TWin Triban 500) and save the money, or should I go for one of the big brands at the LBS: Cannondale Synapse, Specialized Secteur, or Giant Defy? It's mostly aesthetic, but I like the internal cable routing on the Cannondale.

Believe me, I get it ...

I got it the first time ...

But, you (not unlike many other people) are choosing NOT to get what I am saying ....

THAT's all right ...

Really ....

I really do NOT want to belabor the point, but let me repeat that the point which I was making is that for the non-sponsored rider that the frame means less than the marketing people would like you-me-others to think ....

• Half of your mind seems to get it when you say that you now know that the components can be replaced ...
• BUT, you are apparently holding on to the belief that it is your Hybrid's frame which is holding you back rather than its current components.

• And, of course, almost EVERYONE wants affirmation that their choice is the right choice ...

IMO, for the non-sponsored rider the frame choice is MOSTLY aesthetic -- nothing wrong with that!!!

• yes, the geometry matters to some extent
• yes, the frame size matters to some extent
• the maximum tyre size matters to some extent

• the shape/look of the tubes & paint matters to some extent
• and/or the look-alike aspect matters to some extent

How those factors are weighted is up to the individual.

Despite your own declaration that the problem with your Hybrid is the components, you infer that you are (for the moment) more concerned with the frame of your potential "Road" bike because its components can be replaced ...

If you NEED to convince yourself that the Hybrid frame, itself, is holding you back then so be it.

BTW. The MONGOOSE (the Frankenbike with the "silver" 26er MTB frame) which could certainly be re-built to weigh as much as your Hybrid weighs if your Hybrid's components were transferred to it has a weight as pictured of just under 20 lbs ... that's porky by today's standards ... but, if your also Hybrid has an aluminum frame AND you wanted to put £300-to-£400 of carefully selected components + DIY time then you could end up with a comparable bike as the Mongoose for which you would have to pay closer to £1400+ MSRP for a comparably equipped bike at an LBS.

• If I were motivated, I could probably get the Mongoose's weight to just under 19 lbs.
• maybe less IF I were motivated to the point of absurdity.

The LBS has offered to let me take a bike out for an extended test ride, which seems awfully nice (caveats, forms, deposits).


Do it!!

Take the bike on rides with inclines which are long enough to necessitate a lower gearing than you use on the Flats ...

In addition to using the shifters on the Flats, try shifting when you are actually pedaling UPHILL ...

• balky downshifting is engineered into Shimano's STI shifters some people say they never encounter it
• there is a known rider-workaround which is not necessary if you use Campagnolo (or apparently, SRAM shifters & possibly MicroShift shifters) SRAM shifters need SRAM derailleurs
• Campagnolo shifters can be used with Shimano derailleurs

If you don't get a bike with 105-or-better shifters, then you will probably want to upgrade them sooner-rather-than-later if your rides take you up long inclines on a regular basis ...

Even so, you may encounter balky shifting.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Owboduz
If I really can get as low as 34x30, that should be fine. That said, I do like the idea of smoother gear transitions. That jump from 24 to 34 on the Shimano Megarange is really jarring... A 12-25 is going to have smoother transitions than an 11-32... I guess that's the motivation for getting Sora rather than Claris! I don't think that I'm in the market for Tiagra and above for my first bike. Maybe one of those groupsets can be an upgrade later on if I really need more gears. As long as the frame is good, why not!?

BTW & FYI. By updating your Hybrid this year (this model year theoretically ends on June 30th, BTW) you will probably be SAVING more money than if you were to buy any of your desired Road bikes in the next 30 days BECAUSE you will-or-should get more bike for less money if you postpone your purchase by a month, or more.

So, the £200 which you might spend this week to update your Hybrid should be easily offset by the savings you incur in just 30+ days (!!!) ...

And, in 30 days you should have a much better idea of what you want-and-don't-want rather than simply re-stating that you don't want to ride your current Hybrid frame any longer ...

• Love those "compact" handlebars OR hate them OR they're "okay" ... Love the width of the handlebars OR they are too narrow OR they are just right?

[*]Love the shifters OR hate the shifters ...
[*]et cetera.

BTW2. A 50/34 Crankset with a 12-28 Cassette will give most people really low, tree-stump-pulling gearing.

 

[Owboduz]

Alfeng,
I'm a bit concerned about one of the points you seem to be avoiding. In every review and piece of advice I have read so far, the topic of fit comes up. Bad fits can cause aches and pains, while good fits can allow hours of comfortable riding. Everyone seems to say not to buy a bike if you can't try it out first. The method you are suggesting guarantees that I would not be able to test-ride the bike and I would not be able to return it if it could not be made to fit. But you're suggesting this to a complete road newbie, who has no idea how to set the fit properly. It sounds to me like you're giving advice that is all but guaranteed to result in a less than optimal fit for someone who has no idea how to fit a bike. What am I supposed to do? Build a franken-bike, then take it down to the LBS and ask them to fit me on it? I'm sure they'll love that.

I know I'll need to learn how to fit a bike at some point so that I can make my own adjustments. But is that the introduction I need to road cycling?

As it stands, my hybrid stands 98cm high at the top tube. The handlebars rise 16cm above that. The seatpost is only raised 8cm out of the seat tube to fit me properly. This is a HUGE frame. This puts a fundamental limitation onto the fit I can get. If the top tube is too high, it limits the minimum height of the stem. Sure, there are stems that can drop below the head tube, but those introduce their own problems. If the top tube gives me too much reach, I can't fix that. If the top tube doesn't give me enough reach, I can use longer stems, but that affects the steering. So these two variables determine a lot of the fit, but there's no way for me to know if they are even close to what I need in advance.

The frame is HUGE. It contains A LOT of metal. It is HEAVY. The road bikes I tried out were 1-hand lifts. This bike is a 2-hand lift. I'm sure some of that can be fixed by replacing the rims, forks, seatpost. Some cannot.

When I ride my hybrid with Schwalbe Marathon's, I feel an enormous amount of vibration. When I tried out road bikes over the weekend, I didn't notice that nearly as much (I watched the LBS guy inflate the tires, I know they were done right). Are you saying that's NOT down to the frame? I'm pretty sure it's ALL about the frame. It's sure not the tires. It could be the wheels. It's not the seat/seatpost, since I didn't feel it in the handlebars either. Sounds to me like the frame is pretty important.

I'm not trying to talk myself into an all-new bike just because I don't want to upgrade. I don't want to upgrade because I don't think the bike is worth it. Yes, components of my hybrid bother me, but that's not the whole story. I don't like the position that I'm riding in. I tried to fix it with aerobars. That helped, but it wasn't enough. That's what made me want to look at road bikes in the first place. I only got the aerobars after I worked out that putting drop bars on the bike was going to be a minimum of £200 for shifters, bars, stem, tape, cables, etc. and that's IF I could find shifters that were compatible with 7-speed Shimano Tourney. NOW I know that deciding not to put drop bars on was a good idea, since I would have had no way to work out adjust the bars to fit me properly.

In summary,

• The frame is too heavy.
• The geometry is bad for road cycling.
• The components are low-end.
• I can't test-ride it if I'm cobbling it together myself I can't determine whether the parts I order are going to work or not in advance

[*]I don't know how to fit a road bike.
[*]It can be useful to have two bikes, like when one is fitted with a big rack for carrying groceries, and the other is fast.

Yes, it's a savings. Yes, it's doable. But is it the right choice for me to convert my hybrid to a road bike? There, I just don't think so.

 

[Owboduz]

As it happens, I am going to have to delay my new bike. While quite disappointing, there's little choice. Perhaps in a month, I will be able to take advantage of those end-of-model-year deals you speak of.

 

[AyeYo]

The frame is a real issue. The problem is "hybrid" means nothing. If it's a Crossrip or something similar, it can be made into a nice road bike. My 8.4ds is labeled "hybrid" but is built on mountain bike frame. It'll never be road bike, the geometry is horribly wrong. Alfeng probably isn't realizing this is the type of hybrid you have.