bobke said:I think I'll take Riis's word for it Lim.
Feel free to do so.
I'll go with Sean Kelly view and with what I saw too.
bobke said:I think I'll take Riis's word for it Lim.
Giro vs Tourguncha said:Wrong! This year's Giro has 2 climbs per crucial mountain stage while TDF has 4 climbs per crucial mountain stage.
Virenque said:Giro can be harder because of stages, but definitely not because of competition. As someone said before, competition makes GT hard. Stages makes it hard too but it is the second biggest factor. Speed kills!
I agree, Selle Italia and Panaria are always good for a breakaway, almost every stage...Virenque said:I don`t think there are more breakaways in TdF than in Giro. You have plenty of Italians who go to the brake like French do it in TdF.
I think you are both right. Riis and Basso have studied LA's cadence where he uses a smaller gear, so to be able to ride with different paces on the climb, and to better remain in the same pace when the percentages changes on the climp. If you look at this years Giro you would also see that Basso on occasions rode in smaller gear compared to last years TdF.limerickman said:You didn't see the Giro.
You didn't see Basso riding the Giro.
Basso's position on the bike, his tempo, his tactcial riding in the mountains was closer to Indurain, than Armstrong.
I said it earlier.
But others also remarked on it.
Eurosport commented on this fact throughout - Stage 20 Sean Kelly said and I quote "his style and position is that of Indurain. Basso's climbing looks very smooth. There are no acclerations, he's climbing in the way Miguel used to".
Kelly's always call it right. I'll send you the tape if you don't believe me.
That's really not the point. It is Lance's pedaling style, not Indurain's, that Basso has had plenty of opportunity to try to keep up with in the mountains. It makes sense that he and his team manager would use Armstrong's technique as a model, and they are on record as having done so. Armstrong, in turn, probably owes some of his style to Mig, etc, etc. etc. It's an evolution. You think some are too focused on "all things Armstrong", and that's probably true. Others, however, tend to be too hypersensitive when his name is mentioned in a positive light.micron said:Well, woe betide that any cyclist should want to emulate anyone but St. Lance - it's as if cycling never existed before 1999....
Yes, I believe it when Riis say that Basso have copied LA's climbing style, I have also seen some resembling in this Giro when Basso rides standing. Having that said, there still is big difference, where it seems LA is pounding on his pedals, Basso is more smooth on his pedals and more calm on his bike, just like Indurain. As far as I remember, Indurain also rode in a relative small gear. In that sense he resembles more Indurain than Armstrong. But again it is because Basso is doing his own "intepretation" of La's style, making it his own style.musette said:Agreed. Riis in fact goes so far as to be reported to say that they copied LA's climbing style. And goodness knows that obviously Basso has had occasion to study LA's climbing style during GTs and other races "in action" more than Indurain's style, given that LA was a contemporary of Basso for certain periods.
micron said:You do of course know that Basso has always said that his great cycling idol was Miguel Indurain?
rejobako said:That's really not the point. It is Lance's pedaling style, not Indurain's, that Basso has had plenty of opportunity to try to keep up with in the mountains. It makes sense that he and his team manager would use Armstrong's technique as a model, and they are on record as having done so. Armstrong, in turn, probably owes some of his style to Mig, etc, etc. etc. It's an evolution. You think some are too focused on "all things Armstrong", and that's probably true. Others, however, tend to be too hypersensitive when his name is mentioned in a positive light.
I remember that thread, and I made the same point in response then: I think these terms are being used descriptively. When someone says "Basso is emulating Armstrong's pedaling style", one shouldn't infer a claim that Armstrong's style was an innovation. It simply means that, regardless of how Armstrong came by it, he was the catalyst for Basso's appropriation of the style to his own use.limerickman said:Micron alluded to this issue last week and it's now more evident than ever.
The majority of people on this site have no knowledge or concept of cycling
technique, cycling history.
rejobako said:I remember that thread, and I made the same point in response then: I think these terms are being used descriptively. When someone says "Basso is emulating Armstrong's pedaling style", one shouldn't infer a claim that Armstrong's style was an innovation. It simply means that, regardless of how Armstrong came by it, he was the catalyst for Basso's appropriation of the style to his own use.
I know for a fact that I know less about "the history of cycling pre-1980" than most people on this forum, and that my mountain-biking fetish means that I'm less in-tune with road-bike technique as well. In the context of these discussions, however, I'm not sure an encyclopaedic knowledge of these subjects is necessary to understand that Basso smoked everyone in the Giro because of what he learned from watching Armstrong, who in turn borrowed knowledge gained from watching someone else . . . .
Kobler, I think.limerickman said:fair points...........but in re-reading the majority of the contributions to these race threads, it's evident that not only do the majority of contributors not know about cycling tactics, cycle racing technique or cycling history, they also don't wish to be reminded that this sport of ours existed long before 1999.
And I think you ought to address the point about LA's pedalling action to those here who imply that that style is original to Armstrong.
It's not original to Armstrong, or Indurain or Roche for that matter : in fact if you really wish to know who that style of riding was developed by, it was a rider from Switzerland called Hugo Koblet known as "le pedaleur du charme", in the late 1940's early 1950's.
rejobako said:Kobler, I think.
rejobako said:Kobler, I think.
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