Gout vs. meat?

Vilco said:

This evening it will be with lambrusco, as usual, but there will be a couple
lambrusco I never had before, so... study evening 😉

What label Lambrusco? We discovered it in the mid 70's and bought it by
the case until we got a case of it that tasted just like Welch's grape
juice. We stopped drinking it and have never gone back.

gloria p

Andy q said:

I did call Doc for allopurinol but I've got to be clear of the symtoms
before using it, as he said, the allopurinol could further aggrevate
matters.

Hmm... I wasn't aware of that. In my case, it WAS several months
after use of other drugs (colchicine, etc) that I was started on
Allopurinol and symptoms had receded, but that was more due to my
Kaiser docs being morons and my finally going to a different health
plan altogether ....or so I thought. Anyway, hang in there and
persevere. Gout doesn't go away overnight. I was gimpy for several
months, using crutches and a cane when I suffered minor relapses.
Once it's gone and you get on allopurinol, your gout troubles will
eventually disappear and you WILL regain your life. Barring any
complications, the stuff really works.

nb ....gout free for the last dietarily debauched decade! 😉

notbob said:

On 2007-06-07, Andy <q> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I did call Doc for allopurinol but I've got to be clear of the symtoms
before using it, as he said, the allopurinol could further aggrevate
matters.

Quoted message said:

Hmm... I wasn't aware of that. In my case, it WAS several months
after use of other drugs (colchicine, etc) that I was started on
Allopurinol and symptoms had receded, but that was more due to my
Kaiser docs being morons and my finally going to a different health
plan altogether ....or so I thought.

Kaiser's "Health Encyclopedia" supports what Andy's docs told him
about allopurinol. Perhaps it's correct.

Steve

You might try checking out this book; "Let's Get Well" by Adelle Davis. She
deals with gout issues in chapter 18. I have found her recommendations to
be extremely helpful in other conditions, although she often flies in the
face of conventional medicine.

For example, I'll quote from the chapter:
"Because a low-purine diet for gout was drilled into us so thoroughly
during dietetics training, I formerly recommended it, though I have never
known any person adhering to it to recover quickly despite the many
excellent foods allowed. Perhaps 25 years ago, a woman old me proudly that
she had given her husband, who had gout, large amounts of yeast and liver.
:That's exactly what you mustn't do!" I exclaimed in alarm. "But he's well
for the first time in ears," she answered.
Since this incident, I have refused to plan a low-purine diet. Not only do
stress and the pain of gout quickly exhaust the adrenals, but also
inflammation (caused by the uric-acid crystals) invariably indicates that
too little cortisone is being produced. Giving cortisone for this disease
"has proved to be of great value." The dietary approach, therefore must be
to help the adrenals produce cortisone by eating large amounts of liver,
yeast, wheat germ, yogurt of acidophilus, and green leafy vegetables: and
by taking the 'antistress formula (p.31) around the clock during the acute
stage. Usually such a diet brings marked improvement in two or three days.
Persons fearful of deviating from a low-purine diet should at least obtain
generous supplements of all vitamins, especially of vitamin E and the B
group-emphasis on pantothenic acid.

Email me if you don't have access to this book and are interested, and I'll
try to get the info to you. Who knows? It might be just what the Dr.
didn't order! 😉

chipper
chip sixteen at ...

"Andy" <q> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been meatless ('cept for one buffalo burger, dammit!) for over two
weeks
and I'm pretty much tired of it.

The thousands of websites I've visited offering gout diet advice warn of
just
about everything meat!

I'm OK with no shell fish or red meat, but pork?, chicken?, cod/halibut?

Thanks for any info,

Andy

"Andy" <q> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Yeah, it's still a bugger and I hobble around some. It switched big toes
recently, dammit!

I did call Doc for allopurinol but I've got to be clear of the symtoms
before using it, as he said, the allopurinol could further aggrevate
matters.

If I drank any more water I could be a fish! 🙂

Thanks,

Andy

It seems to me that is too long for a "gout" flair up. I think maybe you should
seek a second opinion or get through the desk idiots and talk directly to your
physician.

I also might suggest a rheumatologist.

Dimitri

In article <[email hidden]>, Andy <q> says...

Quoted message said:

I've pretty much read all there is to read, right and wrong on the web.

The problem is that the web does not discriminate. It has lots of
accurate information and also lots of [censored]. Any dribble-chin can put
up an impressive-looking website and spout the most egregious nonsense.
It can be difficult to tell the difference.

--
Peter Aitken

Steve Pope said:

Kaiser's "Health Encyclopedia" supports what Andy's docs told him
about allopurinol. Perhaps it's correct.

Perhaps. I'm not disputing it. But, I read all of Kaiser's info on
gout, at least all that was made available to me. I was not
impressed. I wonder if the Kaiser docs read it. All I know is the
treatment I received at Kaiser was a slow motion trainwreck
culminating in an unnecessary ambulance ride to the ER complete with a
needless spinal tap. That was the last straw.

nb

Andy said:

I hate paying the pain penalty when something I try is a gout irritant
food, dammit!, so I'm being extra cautious and I'm still finding out the
hard way. 🙁

No meat, no eggs, no cheese -- at least not
until your symptoms are COMPLETELY gone,
and have been gone for several days.

Fake meat made from soy protein or wheat
gluten is also bad. Even the fake-fake
meat made from melamine-laced wheat flour
would probably be just as bad, because
the melamine is also metabolized through
the kidneys.

Quoted message said:

I'm waiting for the toes to settle down so I can do my 4.6 mile walks in
the park.

Working the joints is the worst thing you can do
(except for eating meat, eggs, and cheese),
especially during the early stages of gout.

Quoted message said:

Everything I've read on the web just about narrows it down to cardboard
with skim milk! Like sf said, they've covered their tracks. The BUMS!!! The
lot of them!

You can eat chocolate. You can eat crispy
fried things, like most chips. You can
eat sourdough bread with garlic butter.
You can eat avocados. There's plenty of
great food you can eat.

I'm not surprised that cherry juice didn't
work for you. Didn't work for me. I suspect
this is one of those "cures" passed around
by people who've never had gout. It may
work in some scientific study, but at best
it's a slingshot when you need a bazooka.

Dimitri said:

"Andy" <q> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, it's still a bugger and I hobble around some. It switched big toes
recently, dammit!

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that is too long for a "gout" flair up. I think maybe you should
seek a second opinion or get through the desk idiots and talk directly to your
physician.

I also might suggest a rheumatologist.

A needle aspiration would confirm uric acid crystals in the joint.
Most patients decline however.

Without that, you don't know if it's gout, pseudogout, or something
else entirely. When one doctor thought I had gout, a second doctor
thought it more likely an injury or other inflammation.]

S.

notbob said:

On 2007-06-07, Steve Pope <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Kaiser's "Health Encyclopedia" supports what Andy's docs told him
about allopurinol. Perhaps it's correct.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps. I'm not disputing it. But, I read all of Kaiser's info on
gout, at least all that was made available to me. I was not
impressed. I wonder if the Kaiser docs read it. All I know is the
treatment I received at Kaiser was a slow motion trainwreck
culminating in an unnecessary ambulance ride to the ER complete with a
needless spinal tap. That was the last straw.

That sucks.

I'm satisfied with Kaiser so far (have a great doctor, who's a
also part-time prof at UCSF), but I wish I had other options;
I'm stuck with Kaiser the rest of my life, unless I successfully
emigrate to Canada or Australia or somewhere with like that.

Steve

Steve Pope said:

I'm satisfied with Kaiser so far (have a great doctor, who's a
also part-time prof at UCSF).....

I had a couple great docs at Kaiser, but they both bailed. I do wish
I'd stayed with Kaiser, now. I'd still have medical insurance. The
other plan, which gave me much better care, also cut me loose like a
butchered whale carcass after I was laid off. Most people, like
myself, are not aware almost all medical insurance companies will give
you the boot when you leave "group" and will not carry you no matter
how much you are willing to pay. A painfull lesson. Strangely, the
best dermatologist I've ever had quit the Palo Alto Medical Clinic to
go to work for Kaiser. Now, I've gotta jump through Kaiser's
non-member hoops to be seen by her. grrr....

nb

notbob said:

On 2007-06-07, Steve Pope <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm satisfied with Kaiser so far (have a great doctor, who's a
also part-time prof at UCSF).....

Quoted message said:

I had a couple great docs at Kaiser, but they both bailed. I do wish
I'd stayed with Kaiser, now. I'd still have medical insurance. The
other plan, which gave me much better care, also cut me loose like a
butchered whale carcass after I was laid off. Most people, like
myself, are not aware almost all medical insurance companies will give
you the boot when you leave "group" and will not carry you no matter
how much you are willing to pay. A painfull lesson.

That's right. Fortunately for me, I was laid off some time ago at the
age of 40. That made me young enough (probably barely young enough)
that Kaiser accepted me into their system permanently. But I
am well and truly stuck there (at a subsequent job, I had to decline
five years of fully-paid healthcare).

There is a state of California program which may apply to you,
which can force an insurer like Kaiser to issue coverage. I'm
not clear on the details though.

Steve

"Andy" <q> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As pepperoni brought on your bout'o'gout, too much buffalo meat (super
protein) brought on mine, I'm only guessing. As I said I tried to sneak a
buffalo burg with bad gout side effect. 🙁(

I have been drinking some TJ's "Just Cherry" juice with no noticable
effect. More orange and pineapple and tomato juice. No gout aggrevation
from them.

Thanks,

Andy

I can't remember for sure, but buffalo meat looks about the same as ground
beef, right? I don't know that it makes a difference, it's just one of
those weird things that can get stuck in your head, but when I read that
'red' meat can induce a bout'o'gout (love that!), I immediately blamed the
pepperoni. I had been getting a pound of it that wasn't sliced, cutting off
hunks of it and eating with a baguette.

If the cherry juice isn't causing an issue, be grateful. Of course, I may
have been drinking too much of it. About four glasses of it a day. Hmmm...

-Glasswalker-

Since there seem to be quite a bit of folks that have or are suffering from
gout here, has anyone else had gout present in your fingers and not your
feet? That's how mine did, and one of the reasons the doc wasn't 100% sure
that it was gout (even with the slight presence of the uric acid crystals).

The middle knuckle of my middle finger swelled immensely to a point where I
couldn't bend it at all. Made for fun times though when I had to wrap it to
keep it immoblized.

"No, I'm just making a fist, I promise!" ;^)

-Glasswalker-

notbob said...

Quoted message said:

Steve Pope said:

Kaiser's "Health Encyclopedia" supports what Andy's docs told him
about allopurinol. Perhaps it's correct.

Perhaps. I'm not disputing it. But, I read all of Kaiser's info on
gout, at least all that was made available to me. I was not
impressed. I wonder if the Kaiser docs read it. All I know is the
treatment I received at Kaiser was a slow motion trainwreck
culminating in an unnecessary ambulance ride to the ER complete with a
needless spinal tap. That was the last straw.

nb

nb,

YIKES!

I see a private practice doc now. He gives me his qualified advice, not a
clinical health care "merry-go-round" opinion.

Andy

Steve Pope said...

Quoted message said:

Dimitri said:

"Andy" <q> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, it's still a bugger and I hobble around some. It switched big
toes recently, dammit!

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that is too long for a "gout" flair up. I think maybe you
should seek a second opinion or get through the desk idiots and talk
directly to your physician.

I also might suggest a rheumatologist.

A needle aspiration would confirm uric acid crystals in the joint.
Most patients decline however.

Without that, you don't know if it's gout, pseudogout, or something
else entirely. When one doctor thought I had gout, a second doctor
thought it more likely an injury or other inflammation.]

S.

Steve,

C'mon! You don't have to be a doctor to see gout inflamation! But you can't
be me either. I thought it was a re-injury of my foot.

My podiatrist knew better.

Andy

Glasswalker said...

Quoted message said:

Since there seem to be quite a bit of folks that have or are suffering
from gout here, has anyone else had gout present in your fingers and not
your feet? That's how mine did, and one of the reasons the doc wasn't
100% sure that it was gout (even with the slight presence of the uric
acid crystals).

The middle knuckle of my middle finger swelled immensely to a point
where I couldn't bend it at all. Made for fun times though when I had
to wrap it to keep it immoblized.

"No, I'm just making a fist, I promise!" ;^)

-Glasswalker-

Thankfully not yet!!!

My guitars would definitely gently weep with me!

Sorry to hear of that gout affliction!!!

Andy

Thought I throw my two cents in here. I've have had gout for a number of
years. First it was diagnosed as a sprained hand, but know realized this
has bothered me for years. I am a 59 year old woman and for the last
year and half, I have controlled my gout with my doctor's approval with
cherry juice. I purchase concentrated cherry juice from the health food
store. Once a day I put 2 or 3 tablespoonful in a tall glass of water
and drink that. I also take 500 mg of bromalien (pineapple extract)
twice a day, which is an anti-inflammatory. The bromalien comes from the
health food store too.
I have a history of drug interactions so I try the natural path first. I
drink lots of water too, dehydration plays a part in this for me, too.
In the last year and half, I have had only one attack of gout, caused by
a delicious seafood stew. should have known better, same stew caused the
problem the last time. I eat a meat rich diet, including steaks and
salmon, caused my DH is a true meat eater. :-) I did take colchicine for
the last attack, but the side effects were the pits. I would only take
it in an emergency, what ever works is my philosophy. The cherry juice
may or may not work for you, but I would rather take something natural
than another pill from my very well quailfied doctor. liz

It's ORGAN meat that you have to avoid.
That usually includes sausage, and some hot-dogs.

Andy q said:

I've been meatless ('cept for one buffalo burger, dammit!) for over two weeks
and I'm pretty much tired of it.

The thousands of websites I've visited offering gout diet advice warn of just
about everything meat!

I'm OK with no shell fish or red meat, but pork?, chicken?, cod/halibut?

Thanks for any info,

Andy

<rj>

"Andy" <q> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thankfully not yet!!!

My guitars would definitely gently weep with me!

Sorry to hear of that gout affliction!!!

Andy

Luckily it was only on my right hand, so fretting wasn't an issue. That
would definitely suck!

-Glasswalker-