Gout vs. meat?

notbob said...

Quoted message said:

Andy q said:

So we've hardly broken any ground about gout vs. meet in what, 65 posts?

What the heck you talking about, Andy? I've met all kinds of fellow
gout sufferers. If you meant "meat, then that's been covered, too. Go
the course, get on allopurinol for six months and if you're like many
of the rest of us, you can forever afterwards eat meat till you die of
coronary heart disease before your next gout attack. Many have
expressed the same sentiment. Where the Hell you been?

nb

I recall my original bout'o'gout. I was in the hospital during a spell of
pancreatitus. For 7 days I was fed sodium chloride (with a potassium
chloride "tube" once a day). By the time I got out, my feet began to go
"wrong."

I ended up back in emergency as I could barely walk. They took x-rays and
came back with a "we don't know what" answer.

I didn't realize what it was until my newly acquired bout'o'gout, some 3
years later, this late May.

Where's a second opinion when you really need one??

The week of no food and the drastic weight loss never chimed in to the docs
at the hospital and went mis-diagnosed. Just what I always wanted, $150/hr.
emergency room idiots!!!

The BUMS!!!

Andy

John Kane said:

Don't panic. Syphillis is pretty rare (at least in Canada, not sure
where you live) . The last time I went pricing syphillis medicine most
drug stores has a hard time finding a price.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

Actually, syphilis is on the rise in Canada.
I'm curious as to why you "went pricing syphilis medicines" ????
How hard is it to find a price on Penicillin?

notbob said:

I remember last year (year before last?) the media running news about
a new study claiming diuretics may be as effective as other more toxic
meds for the reduction of high blood pressure. I was stunned to see
no mention of the possible problems associated with potential
dehydration from that course of treatment.

nb

I think the findings were that the old, commonly used diuretics were as
effective as the more expensive blood pressure meds for many people.
I don't recall mention of toxicity.
Diuretics are often the first drug tried for folks with hypertension.

Andy said:

I recall my original bout'o'gout. I was in the hospital during a spell of
pancreatitus. For 7 days I was fed sodium chloride (with a potassium
chloride "tube" once a day). By the time I got out, my feet began to go
"wrong."

I ended up back in emergency as I could barely walk. They took x-rays and
came back with a "we don't know what" answer.

I didn't realize what it was until my newly acquired bout'o'gout, some 3
years later, this late May.

Where's a second opinion when you really need one??

The week of no food and the drastic weight loss never chimed in to the docs
at the hospital and went mis-diagnosed. Just what I always wanted, $150/hr.
emergency room idiots!!!

The BUMS!!!

Andy

Oh good grief. Pancreatitis is a very serious illness, with a high
mortality rate. Patients with bad cases can have a wide range of
complications.....but I can't say I've ever heard or dealt with it
causing "gout" (unconfirmed at that) before?
So what makes you think you were "misdiagnosed?

Goomba38 said...

Quoted message said:

Andy said:

I recall my original bout'o'gout. I was in the hospital during a spell
of pancreatitus. For 7 days I was fed sodium chloride (with a potassium
chloride "tube" once a day). By the time I got out, my feet began to go
"wrong."

I ended up back in emergency as I could barely walk. They took x-rays
and came back with a "we don't know what" answer.

I didn't realize what it was until my newly acquired bout'o'gout, some
3 years later, this late May.

Where's a second opinion when you really need one??

The week of no food and the drastic weight loss never chimed in to the
docs at the hospital and went mis-diagnosed. Just what I always wanted,
$150/hr. emergency room idiots!!!

The BUMS!!!

Andy

Oh good grief. Pancreatitis is a very serious illness, with a high
mortality rate. Patients with bad cases can have a wide range of
complications.....but I can't say I've ever heard or dealt with it
causing "gout" (unconfirmed at that) before?
So what makes you think you were "misdiagnosed?

Goomba38,

There's no telling on my part. WTF did I know?

I just remember the pain in both feet as I hobbled around the house. Also,
in the hospital room I remember waking up sweating to death, sleeping on a
rubber mattress and pressing the nurse button and they'd come in and
shriek, "You're soaking wet!" and had me stand by as they changed the
sheets and then give me another IV shot of pain medicine or something to
get me back to sleep.

Worst time of my life, honestly!

Andy

sf sf said:

You're talking about 10 years ago, nb. Times have changed and so has
Kaiser. I have a Doc I'm addicted to - yes, she's THAT good!

It's a non-issue. I can't get into Kaiser anyway. They don't accept
folks with previous conditions like gout, high blood pressure,
overweight (by 10lbs!), etc. IOW, they'll take you only if you don't
require any medical care.

nb

sf sf said:

notbob said:

I had a couple great docs at Kaiser, but they both bailed.

If they were good, "bailed" doesn't mean flunked out.

I didn't say or imply it did.

Phrasal Verb(s):
bail out

1. To parachute from an aircraft; eject.
2. To abandon a project or enterprise.

nb

"Andy" <q> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been meatless ('cept for one buffalo burger, dammit!) for over two

weeks

Quoted message said:

and I'm pretty much tired of it.

The thousands of websites I've visited offering gout diet advice warn of

just

Quoted message said:

about everything meat!

I'm OK with no shell fish or red meat, but pork?, chicken?, cod/halibut?

Thanks for any info,

Andy

Pork, chicken and fish are not contributors to gout. I've had it 2 times,
very miserable times I might add. Gout is crippling. But what did it for
me both times was not meat at all it was tomatoes. I was eating them by the
pound. The problem is not meat, it is purines. Foods rich in purines,
tomatoes, offal meats, shellfish, will give you gout.

What you need to do is to lower your blood's uric acid level. Drink lots of
water. Eat cherries and drink plenty of cherry juice. Cherry juice really
helps the body purge the uric acid crystals from the joints. I got the
"Just Cherry" juice from Trader Joes. I drank a bottle every 2 or three
days. I got significant relief from the pain around day 3. It really works
wonders and it will not interfere with drug therapy if you're on Allopurinol
for instance. In fact there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that it helps
the drug work.

Of course you will never see something like an ordinary juice ever being
clinically tested for medicinal value. But it works.

Paul

Andy said:

I just remember the pain in both feet as I hobbled around the house.
Also, in the hospital room I remember waking up sweating to death,
sleeping on a rubber mattress and pressing the nurse button and
they'd come in and shriek, "You're soaking wet!" and had me stand by
as they changed the sheets and then give me another IV shot of
pain medicine or something to get me back to sleep.

Worst time of my life, honestly!

When you start to go downhill, everything goes wrong
all at once. Sorry to hear life has caught up with
you, Andy. You'll be missed for a few weeks, then
forgotten completely. Hope this helps! :-)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Goomba38 said:

Andy said:

Quoted message said:

> I also might suggest a rheumatologist.
A needle aspiration would confirm uric acid crystals in the joint.
Most patients decline however.
Without that, you don't know if it's gout, pseudogout, or something
else entirely. When one doctor thought I had gout, a second doctor
thought it more likely an injury or other inflammation.]

C'mon! You don't have to be a doctor to see gout inflamation! But you can't
be me either. I thought it was a re-injury of my foot.

Actually Steve is pretty much on target. Even syphillis can cause joint
problems.

I have aggravating joint pain when I have a celiac reaction.
Fortunately, I rarely have reactions anymore since I am so careful about
what I eat. I notice it first in my large toe joints. These
auto-immune/inflammatory conditions are really sneaky and confusing.

When I was twenty, I had excruciating pain in one of my big toes and,
without so much as a "howdy do", was immediately diagnosed with gout
because my dad had gout and because of the level of my pain. My regular
doctor saw me the following week and did a more thorough exam including
xrays. Turned out to be several march foot fractures (in both feet but
only one foot bothered me), not gout.

notbob said:

It's a non-issue. I can't get into Kaiser anyway. They don't accept
folks with previous conditions like gout, high blood pressure,
overweight (by 10lbs!), etc. IOW, they'll take you only if you don't
require any medical care.

Have you looked into the MRMIP (California major risk medical
insurance program), under which if you jump through some hoops
you can force an insurer to provide you coverage?

Steve

Steve Pope said:

notbob said:

It's a non-issue. I can't get into Kaiser anyway. They don't accept
folks with previous conditions like gout, high blood pressure,
overweight (by 10lbs!), etc. IOW, they'll take you only if you don't
require any medical care.

Have you looked into the MRMIP (California major risk medical
insurance program), under which if you jump through some hoops
you can force an insurer to provide you coverage?

Steve

But at what cost? I imagine the premiums would cost a fortune, but what
do I know <g>.

Sky

Skyhooks said:

Steve Pope wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

notbob <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's a non-issue. I can't get into Kaiser anyway. They don't accept
folks with previous conditions like gout, high blood pressure,
overweight (by 10lbs!), etc. IOW, they'll take you only if you don't
require any medical care.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Have you looked into the MRMIP (California major risk medical
insurance program), under which if you jump through some hoops
you can force an insurer to provide you coverage?

Quoted message said:

But at what cost? I imagine the premiums would cost a fortune,
but what do I know <g>.

No idea. Wild-ass guess? 50% more than Kaiser's standard premiums.
(I'm paying Kaiser about $8K/year to cover two people of approximate
age 50.) I would have to assume the MRMIP program is priced so
that it breaks even.

Steve

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 17:13:16 -0700, John Kane <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Glasswalker said:

"Goomba38" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

Quoted message said:

Actually Steve is pretty much on target. Even syphillis can cause joint
problems.

Oh [censored]...

;^)

-Glasswalker-

Don't panic. Syphillis is pretty rare (at least in Canada, not sure
where you live) . The last time I went pricing syphillis medicine most
drug stores has a hard time finding a price.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

i canada, they *like* syphilis.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 19:35:12 -0400, Peter A <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You might try checking out this book; "Let's Get Well" by Adelle Davis. She
deals with gout issues in chapter 18. I have found her recommendations to
be extremely helpful in other conditions, although she often flies in the
face of conventional medicine.

am i the only one who snickered when i learned davis died of bone
cancer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelle_Davis

Why would you snicker? Does it make you feel clever or superior?

it seemed that anyone who wrote a book entitled 'let's eat right to
keep fit' and other health-food tomes should have lived until she got
hit by a truck or something.

sometimes i snicker because something's funny. does that ever happen
to you?

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 14:02:11 -0700, Mark Thorson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Chipper said:

You might try checking out this book; "Let's Get Well" by Adelle Davis.
She deals with gout issues in chapter 18. I have found her
recommendations to be extremely helpful in other conditions,
although she often flies in the face of conventional medicine.

This is some of the worst advice you can get.
Before you swallow any of her [censored], read a little
about her:

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/davis.html

<snicker>

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 22:06:26 GMT, Puester <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Chipper said:

You might try checking out this book; "Let's Get Well" by Adelle Davis. She
deals with gout issues in chapter 18. I have found her recommendations to
be extremely helpful in other conditions, although she often flies in the
face of conventional medicine.

Take Adele Davis with a grain of salt. Although many of her diet
suggestions are good sense, she swore that with her perfect, wonderful,
healthful diet she'd live forever.

She died of cancer in her 60's, IIRC.

gloria p

she was seventy. but, even so. apparently more than a few of her
adherents (or more likely, their children) weren't so lucky.

your pal,
blake

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy q said:

That's hardly all there is to it!

Yep. Besides, I'm a hot dog junkie. Eat 'em by the truckload. My
current fave is the National Hebrew 1/4 lb'ers. Yum!

Well they are made from kosher cuts of meat, so you can be assured they have
no offal in them. I think the Yiddish word is trafe. So anyway, this sure
makes me think of hot dogs. Yummo. Oops! I meant yummy.

Paul

"Steve Pope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dimitri said:

"Andy" <q> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, it's still a bugger and I hobble around some. It switched big

toes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

recently, dammit!

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that is too long for a "gout" flair up. I think maybe you

should

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seek a second opinion or get through the desk idiots and talk directly to

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

physician.

I also might suggest a rheumatologist.

A needle aspiration would confirm uric acid crystals in the joint.
Most patients decline however.

Without that, you don't know if it's gout, pseudogout, or something
else entirely. When one doctor thought I had gout, a second doctor
thought it more likely an injury or other inflammation.]

Could be both. Gout seems to find joints that have been injured. In fact,
my first gout attack followed an injury to that exact same area just a
couple of months earlier.

Paul

Paul M. Cook said:

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Yep. Besides, I'm a hot dog junkie. Eat 'em by the truckload. My
current fave is the National Hebrew 1/4 lb'ers. Yum!

Well they are made from kosher cuts of meat, so you can be assured they have
no offal in them. I think the Yiddish word is trafe. So anyway, this sure
makes me think of hot dogs. Yummo. Oops! I meant yummy.

Um... why? Such offal as liver, lungs/lights, tongue, sweetbreads (both
thymus and pancreas), and brain is kosher. So, in theory, if not
necessarily in practice, a lot of things could be found in kosher
wieners/frankfurters.

There is, however, an absolutely necessary thing that *cannot* be found
in any widely-marketed kosher frankfurters/wieners, Hebrew National not
excluded, namely natural casings. They are all either in collagen
casings or completely skinless, which makes them essentially worthless,
as far as I am concerned. Some people (and Wikipedia) actually declare
that sausages in natural casings cannot be kosher, which makes little
sense, considering that kishka/derma (the word that *means*
gut/intestine, even if the dish is also often made with chicken or goose
neck skin) has long been considered a traditional - and perfectly kosher
- Ashkenazi dish.

Victor