Help removing 1988 Croce D'Aune crank



T

Tim Lines

Guest
I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.

The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I should
use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I tried that
for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing damage. There's
got to be a better way.

A really BAD picture of what I'm talking about is here:
http://home.comcast.net/~lines_tim/crank.JPG

Please reply to linest253 _at_ yah00 -dot- com
 
N

Nate Knutson

Guest
Tim Lines wrote:
> I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
>
> The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
> locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I should
> use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I tried that
> for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing damage. There's
> got to be a better way.
>
> A really BAD picture of what I'm talking about is here:
> http://home.comcast.net/~lines_tim/crank.JPG
>
> Please reply to linest253 _at_ yah00 -dot- com


Can't tell from the picture but it looks sort of like a Sugino Autex
self-extractor or some other type of self-extractor. It doesn't say
Sugino or anything on it right?

Have you or the shop tried any/all of the adjustable pin spanners? If
you can't find one that works, you could probably grind a set of of pin
spanner replacement pins to work or something similar.
 
T

Tim Lines

Guest
Nate Knutson wrote:
> Tim Lines wrote:
>
>>I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
>>
>>The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
>>locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I should
>>use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I tried that
>>for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing damage. There's
>>got to be a better way.
>>
>>A really BAD picture of what I'm talking about is here:
>>http://home.comcast.net/~lines_tim/crank.JPG
>>
>>Please reply to linest253 _at_ yah00 -dot- com

>
>
> Can't tell from the picture but it looks sort of like a Sugino Autex
> self-extractor or some other type of self-extractor. It doesn't say
> Sugino or anything on it right?


No, this is Campagnolo. Aside from that detail, I'll bet you're right.
It's got to be self extracting. I just didn't consider that after the
bike shop couldn't get them off and they gave me their explanation.

I should have caught that. And I should stay out of that bike shop on
Mondays since Monday is the owners' day off.
 
Tim Lines wrote:

> No, this is Campagnolo. Aside from that detail, I'll bet you're right.
> It's got to be self extracting. I just didn't consider that after the
> bike shop couldn't get them off and they gave me their explanation.


Be very very careful. Yes, it's a self extracting bolt. I think
you need a 7mm wrench for the crank bolt (Sears sells this
somewhat unusual size). If you're lucky you can get it off with
the bolt. But, to make things extra tricky, the extractor caps
may have a left-hand thread, which is probably one reason
the bike shop couldn't loosen them. Don't screw up the caps
or the crank thread, or lose the caps, because none of the
usual right-hand thread tools will work.
 
D

Dave Mayer

Guest
"Tim Lines" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
>
> The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
> locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I should
> use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I tried that
> for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing damage. There's
> got to be a better way.
>
> A really BAD picture of what I'm talking about is here:
> http://home.comcast.net/~lines_tim/crank.JPG
>
> Please reply to linest253 _at_ yah00 -dot- com


This crankset uses Campagnolo self-extracting crank bolts. 7mm metric. No,
it is not 6mm or some Imperial size. 7mm. If you try anything other than a
7, you will strip the bolts, and then you'll have much bigger problems.

The two holes are for for a pin-spanner. The crank extractor threads are a
left-hand thread. Good thing you stopped after 10 seconds, because if you
assumed that this was a standard thread, you were tightening it. And there
is no reason to remove the extracting bolts from the crankarms, as the
purpose of this whole thing is to remove the crank from the bottom bracket.

Instructions: go to Sears and get a 7mm insert for a socket set. 3/8"
driver - I think. A 7mm hex key is hard to find, and hex keys are simply
inadequate to properly tighten cranksets. It will be faster and cheaper for
you to do this yourself, in that otherwise you'll have to argue with the
bike shop for 10 minutes that in fact there really is a 7mm hex standard,
and then they'll try to remove this with a 6mm anyway when you're not
around. God help you if the shop actually does manage to get the extractors
out of the arms, in that they'll use a big wrench to screw in a standard
right-hand crank extractor tool, and cross-thread/strip the whole thing.
I've been there.

BTW: this is a really nice crankset. I assume you have a really good reason
for removing this, or someone has a fistfull of cash they are willing to
trade with you.
 
A

Adam Rush

Guest
I can understand why Campagnolo would want to use a 7mm allen wrench
for its cranks, but why left-handed? Also, what's the deal with
"self-extracting" and the pin spanner holes?
 
N

Nate Knutson

Guest
Adam Rush wrote:
> I can understand why Campagnolo would want to use a 7mm allen wrench
> for its cranks, but why left-handed? Also, what's the deal with
> "self-extracting" and the pin spanner holes?


In a self-extracting crank bolt setup, when you unscrew the crank bolt,
the shoulder of the crank bolt applies force to a part screwed the
crank's extractor threads (I don't think it has an official name; call
it an "extractor plate"). Between the bolt and the extractor plate is a
washer, and the whole thing is greased. Unscrewing the crank bolt
therefore pushes the whole crank off the spindle without additional
tools. The pin holes are to install and, if desired, remove the
extractor plate.

Presumably the reason why Campy used left hand threads for this is
because then the extractor plate would experience the rotational force
in it's tightening direction upon extraction, not the loosening
direction. Using 7mm, OTOH, is pretty inexplicable... maybe since
apparently they were so concerned about the extractor plate coming
loose, they were trying to get more contact area between the washer and
the plate?
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
Tim Lines wrote:

> I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
>
> The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
> locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I should
> use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I tried that
> for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing damage. There's
> got to be a better way.
>
> A really BAD picture of what I'm talking about is here:
> http://home.comcast.net/~lines_tim/crank.JPG
>
> Please reply to linest253 _at_ yah00 -dot- com


The shiny chrome cap with 2 holes is a One-Key-Release
system. Get some oil under that cap and just unscrew the big
7mm bolt. It pushes the crank off.

To service that system ( and I'm not suggesting you do - if
it works, and I bet it does, you can leave it alone), use
Campagnolo's Crank Cover Tool (with 2 pegs) to unscrew
clockwise. Remove the cap, bolt, washers and then you can
remove in the alternate manner - with a reverse thread
Campagnolo crank remover ( we have 'em).

As with all one-key systems, a bit of lubrication goes a
_long_ way. Give it oil, use the integrated remover as intended.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
M

M-gineering

Guest
Nate Knutson wrote:

> Presumably the reason why Campy used left hand threads for this is
> because then the extractor plate would experience the rotational force
> in it's tightening direction upon extraction, not the loosening
> direction. Using 7mm, OTOH, is pretty inexplicable... maybe since
> apparently they were so concerned about the extractor plate coming
> loose, they were trying to get more contact area between the washer and
> the plate?
>


I'm sure Campy rightfully assumed that any self-respecting bikeshop
would have a 7mm allen-key. You needed them for Cinelli stems!


--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl
 
N

Nate Knutson

Guest
Nate Knutson wrote:
> Adam Rush wrote:
> > I can understand why Campagnolo would want to use a 7mm allen wrench
> > for its cranks, but why left-handed? Also, what's the deal with
> > "self-extracting" and the pin spanner holes?

>
> In a self-extracting crank bolt setup, when you unscrew the crank bolt,
> the shoulder of the crank bolt applies force to a part screwed the
> crank's extractor threads (I don't think it has an official name; call
> it an "extractor plate"). Between the bolt and the extractor plate is a
> washer, and the whole thing is greased. Unscrewing the crank bolt
> therefore pushes the whole crank off the spindle without additional
> tools. The pin holes are to install and, if desired, remove the
> extractor plate.
>
> Presumably the reason why Campy used left hand threads for this is
> because then the extractor plate would experience the rotational force
> in it's tightening direction upon extraction, not the loosening
> direction. Using 7mm, OTOH, is pretty inexplicable... maybe since
> apparently they were so concerned about the extractor plate coming
> loose, they were trying to get more contact area between the washer and
> the plate?


just realized that doesn't make sense... beer not compatible w/ usenet
 
A

Adam Rush

Guest
> Using 7mm, OTOH, is pretty inexplicable... maybe since
> apparently they were so concerned about the extractor plate coming
> loose, they were trying to get more contact area between the washer and
> the plate?


Well, it seems pretty logical that they would want to be able to sell
their own 7 mm allen wrenches.
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
Tim Lines wrote:
> I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
>
> The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
> locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I should
> use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I tried that
> for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing damage. There's
> got to be a better way.
>
> A really BAD picture of what I'm talking about is here:
> http://home.comcast.net/~lines_tim/crank.JPG
>
> Please reply to linest253 _at_ yah00 -dot- com


7mm allen and these are self extractors-left loosey. If you want to
take the entire bolt out via the pin holes-the thing is left threaded.
Once out, use a left threaded crank puller-Campag type.
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
Tim Lines wrote:
> Nate Knutson wrote:
> > Tim Lines wrote:
> >
> >>I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
> >>
> >>The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
> >>locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I should
> >>use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I tried that
> >>for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing damage. There's
> >>got to be a better way.
> >>
> >>A really BAD picture of what I'm talking about is here:
> >>http://home.comcast.net/~lines_tim/crank.JPG
> >>
> >>Please reply to linest253 _at_ yah00 -dot- com

> >
> >
> > Can't tell from the picture but it looks sort of like a Sugino Autex
> > self-extractor or some other type of self-extractor. It doesn't say
> > Sugino or anything on it right?

>
> No, this is Campagnolo. Aside from that detail, I'll bet you're right.
> It's got to be self extracting. I just didn't consider that after the
> bike shop couldn't get them off and they gave me their explanation.
>
> I should have caught that. And I should stay out of that bike shop on
> Mondays since Monday is the owners' day off.


Hopefully the owner would know-7mm allen-left-loosey.
 
T

Tim McNamara

Guest
Tim Lines <[email protected]> writes:

> I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
>
> The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
> locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I
> should use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I
> tried that for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing
> damage. There's got to be a better way.


There is, as has been pointed out. Stick a 7 mm allen wrench in there
and unscrew the bolt out of the BB spindle. The cranks will be
removed. It's as simple as can be, and if your bike shop did not know
this, do not have anything further to do with them. they would have to
be incompetent in the extreme to not know how to take these cranks
off.

If you want to remove the self-extractors for some reason, then you
will need a pin spanner with pins of the appropriate size. IIRC the
extractors are installed with left-hand threads to keep them from
unscrewing while taking off the cranks. I believe that you can't use
a standard crank puller with these cranks, but I've never tried. The
self-extractors work very well, however.

It's too bad Campy went with 7 mm bolts, 8 mm are what all other
self-extractors use and the stouter Allen wrench makes it easier to
get the cranks tight enough. See the true story of my misadventures
with these:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/mcnamara.html#bubs
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
Tim McNamara wrote:
> Tim Lines <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
> >
> > The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
> > locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I
> > should use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I
> > tried that for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing
> > damage. There's got to be a better way.

>
> There is, as has been pointed out. Stick a 7 mm allen wrench in there
> and unscrew the bolt out of the BB spindle. The cranks will be
> removed. It's as simple as can be, and if your bike shop did not know
> this, do not have anything further to do with them. they would have to
> be incompetent in the extreme to not know how to take these cranks
> off.


I donno-Only one other shop, amybe 2 here in the republic would
recognize these or the other 7mm self extractors of the era. Doubt
anybody but us have the left hand crank puller tho.
>
> If you want to remove the self-extractors for some reason, then you
> will need a pin spanner with pins of the appropriate size. IIRC the
> extractors are installed with left-hand threads to keep them from
> unscrewing while taking off the cranks. I believe that you can't use
> a standard crank puller with these cranks, but I've never tried. The
> self-extractors work very well, however.
>
> It's too bad Campy went with 7 mm bolts, 8 mm are what all other
> self-extractors use and the stouter Allen wrench makes it easier to
> get the cranks tight enough. See the true story of my misadventures
> with these:


Well, these were made in 1984 thru about 1990, 7-8 years before the 8mm
self extractors of shimano and octalink. Other aftermarket extractors
of the time were 6mm.
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/mcnamara.html#bubs
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
Tim McNamara wrote:
> Tim Lines <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
> >
> > The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
> > locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I
> > should use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I
> > tried that for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing
> > damage. There's got to be a better way.

>
> There is, as has been pointed out. Stick a 7 mm allen wrench in there
> and unscrew the bolt out of the BB spindle. The cranks will be
> removed. It's as simple as can be, and if your bike shop did not know
> this, do not have anything further to do with them. they would have to
> be incompetent in the extreme to not know how to take these cranks
> off.


I donno-Only one other shop, maybe 2 here in the republic would
recognize these or the other 7mm self extractors of the era. Doubt
anybody but us have the left hand crank puller tho.
>
> If you want to remove the self-extractors for some reason, then you
> will need a pin spanner with pins of the appropriate size. IIRC the
> extractors are installed with left-hand threads to keep them from
> unscrewing while taking off the cranks. I believe that you can't use
> a standard crank puller with these cranks, but I've never tried. The
> self-extractors work very well, however.
>
> It's too bad Campy went with 7 mm bolts, 8 mm are what all other
> self-extractors use and the stouter Allen wrench makes it easier to
> get the cranks tight enough. See the true story of my misadventures
> with these:


Well, these were made in 1984 thru about 1990, 7-8 years before the 8mm
self extractors of shimano and octalink. Other aftermarket extractors
of the time were 6mm.
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/mcnamara.html#bubs
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
Tim McNamara wrote:
> Tim Lines <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > I'd like some advise about how to remove a 1988 Croce D'Aune crank.
> >
> > The problem is that it's got lock bolts that take some kind of tiny
> > locking pin spanner that neither I nor my LBS has. My LBS says I
> > should use a really sharp and pointy pair of needle nose pliers. I
> > tried that for about 10 seconds before I stopped for fear of doing
> > damage. There's got to be a better way.

>
> There is, as has been pointed out. Stick a 7 mm allen wrench in there
> and unscrew the bolt out of the BB spindle. The cranks will be
> removed. It's as simple as can be, and if your bike shop did not know
> this, do not have anything further to do with them. they would have to
> be incompetent in the extreme to not know how to take these cranks
> off.


I donno-Only one other shop, maybe 2 here in the republic would
recognize these or the other 7mm self extractors of the era. Doubt
anybody but us have the left hand crank puller tho.
>
> If you want to remove the self-extractors for some reason, then you
> will need a pin spanner with pins of the appropriate size. IIRC the
> extractors are installed with left-hand threads to keep them from
> unscrewing while taking off the cranks. I believe that you can't use
> a standard crank puller with these cranks, but I've never tried. The
> self-extractors work very well, however.
>
> It's too bad Campy went with 7 mm bolts, 8 mm are what all other
> self-extractors use and the stouter Allen wrench makes it easier to
> get the cranks tight enough. See the true story of my misadventures
> with these:


Well, these were made in 1984 thru about 1990, 7-8 years before the 8mm
self extractors of shimano and octalink. Other aftermarket extractors
of the time were 6mm.
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/mcnamara.html#bubs
 
T

Tim McNamara

Guest
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> writes:

> Doubt anybody but us have the left hand crank puller tho.


Yours is a well-stocked service department!
 
T

Tim McNamara

Guest
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> writes:

> Tim McNamara wrote:
>>
>> It's too bad Campy went with 7 mm bolts, 8 mm are what all other
>> self-extractors use and the stouter Allen wrench makes it easier to
>> get the cranks tight enough. See the true story of my
>> misadventures with these:

>
> Well, these were made in 1984 thru about 1990, 7-8 years before the
> 8mm self extractors of shimano and octalink.


Even a bit later than that. My ca 1996 Chorus gruppo had the 7 mm
self-extractors, hence all the hijinks at Bub's Welding. 8 mm
extractors were common by then.
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
>>Using 7mm, OTOH, is pretty inexplicable... maybe since
>>apparently they were so concerned about the extractor plate coming
>>loose, they were trying to get more contact area between the washer and
>>the plate?


Adam Rush wrote:
> Well, it seems pretty logical that they would want to be able to sell
> their own 7 mm allen wrenches.


It was the standard size for bike equipment at the time

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971