Help with identifying Peugeot Road Bike

[Wyllow]

I bought an old Peugeot road bike recently. It has Normandy hubs which have "1 75" on them which I guess could be January 1975? Lyotard 136 pedals, Mafac 'racer' brakes. It has the head badge which one site tells me was used between '75 and '79. It's model/serial number is RY M4 (stamped on the BB) and 1599576 (engraved on a slip of metal and riveted on the BB). I think it may have been resprayed. It has Peugeot Predator written on it but I don't think that is original. Can anyone help?

 

[oldbobcat]

Are my eyes deceiving me, or is there really a "Panasonic" decal on the top tube?

Whatever. Don't get excited, it's a low-level UO-8 style frame with standard Normandy hubs, Lyotard pedals, steel cottered cranks, Mafac brakes, and a snazzy paint job. The generator/taillight bracket and rack brackets on the chain stays indicate an AE-8, the touring version, minus the fenders, lights, and racks.

 

[Wyllow]

Thanks. I didn't think it was anything special but I love it. Yes, there is a Panasonic sticker on it plus a few other company logos/name.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

It's either a UO-8 or an AO-8.

Info here: http://retropeugeot.com/

Dating an older Peugeot is nigh on impossible with any degree of accuracy. The date scheme below has been refuted by other Peugeot 'experts', but may be of some use. Look closely at your components and compare to data and specifications on the web for an approximate vintage.

"Unfortunately, exactly dating a Peugeot earlier than the late 1970s is an art rather than a science, and is often an estimate at best. Even original owners have a hard time remembering the year that they purchased the bicycle. That said, it is possible to date a bike within several years with some confidence based on frame features and components. See the 'Frame, Decals & Badges' webpage for a pictorial timeline of frame features, and the 'Components' webpages for information on when they were found on 'U' bicycles. Older bicycles have a serial number on the underside of the bottom bracket. If the number has six digits the frame was made in the 1960s, seven digits in the 1970s. Sometimes, the first digit indicates the year within each decade that the frame was made. For example, 1940481 and 2400884 represent 1971 and 1972, respectively. However, there are many cases when the first digit suggests a frame production year that is older than the actual age of the bicycle. For example, the serial number 1355592 on a 1975 bicycle. The reverse has not been documented, so it is likely that bicycles are no older than the first digit in the factory serial number, but could be younger. Sometimes local bike shops etched serial numbers into the rear dropout, but this number may or may not match the original." More info here: http://cyclespeugeot.com/SerialNumbers.html

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"The generator/taillight bracket and rack brackets on the chain stays indicate an AE-8, the touring version, minus the fenders, lights, and racks."

Missed that! Good eye!

Yeah, not an AO model (although identical frame other than the fittings).

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

"The generator/taillight bracket and rack brackets on the chain stays indicate an AE-8, the touring version, minus the fenders, lights, and racks."

Missed that! Good eye!

Yeah, not an AO model (although identical frame other than the fittings).

You just had to be there. In the '70s, that is.

 

[RidingSeed]

looks better than some bikes in our days.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"You just had to be there. In the '70s, that is."

I was there.

I had a PY-10 I bought in Peterborough, Ontario, Canada with a Triplex Sport RD and 47-53 Stronglite x 14-21. Despite a website stating they were available from 1974 onwards, I had one in 1973. The tubing was thin 531 (Extra Light or 531C) and the thing shook uncontrollably on downhills...brace your knees and pray type shaking.

By 1976 UO-8's. AO-8's and Raleigh Records were on every street corner and Schwinn could not build enough Varsity's and Continental's. Bottecchia, Masi and Cinelli were exotic and rare. My 1974 Paramount P13-9 custom order made-to-size was all of $660 delivered, with Campagnolo tool set in a brown vinyl zippered pouch. A standard order Paramount in 1973 was only $350! I waited a year too long to buy mine.

The Paramount and Campy tools I still have. The POS Peugeot I sold off...one of only two bikes I've gladly rid myself of.

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by RidingSeed .

looks better than some bikes in our days.

Contrary to the advertising lit, the tubes on these were rolled and seamed. But the Simplex Prestige derailleurs worked better than the Hurets that Raleigh and Schwinn were using, except for the plastic levers eventually breaking. But, yeah, when these things still had Lyotard pedals and leather saddles, and before they started loading them up with reflectors and brake lever extensions, they were a pretty nice package.

The challenge of all of these bikes was to find a way to keep the Pletscher rack from sliding down the seatstays until it came to a rest on the traverse cable of the brake caliper.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"Contrary to the advertising lit, the tubes on these were rolled and seamed."

I thought only the fork blades were rolled & welded? I've also seen PX-10's with rolled & welded forks.

But the Simplex Prestige derailleurs worked better than the Hurets that Raleigh and Schwinn were using, except for the plastic levers eventually breaking.

Simplex eventually made steel levers with a black plastic cover and friction knobs that actually stayed in place. After they reinforced the rear derailleur parallelogram arms with steel plates, even those stopped breaking when kiddies forced a 4-gear shift on a hill! Dunno if any of that ever made it down to the lowly UO-8/AO-8 lines though.

"But, yeah, when these things still had Lyotard pedals and leather saddles, and before they started loading them up with reflectors and brake lever extensions, they were a pretty nice package."

True that. Although the early Records still hold a place in my heart. The Ideale saddles were just as uncomfortable as Brooks to my rear.

"The challenge of all of these bikes was to find a way to keep the Pletscher rack from sliding down the seatstays until it came to a rest on the traverse cable of the brake caliper."

Memories! They were great at keeping a basketball in place though! If Schwinn would have pushed their Sports Tourer and Super Sports fillet brazed models more (and maybe used something other than nameless Chrome-Moly tubing) they could have killed Poojoe and Raleigh's cheaper offerings. IIRC a Super Sports was around $135 at the time. A Sports Tourer was a pricey $199 but had that awesome 15.5 ounce Campy GT derailleur! And a TA crankset!

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

"Contrary to the advertising lit, the tubes on these were rolled and seamed."

I thought only the fork blades were rolled & welded? I've also seen PX-10's with rolled & welded forks.

hese were rolled and seamed."

On the UO-8s and below, if you felt the undersides of the main tubes carefully, the seams were detectable. I didn't know about the PX-10s, though. Must have been later in the decade.

My first bike was a pathetic Super Course that shed parts as I rode. I swore off of Raleighs, but then turned around and got an International a few years later. Some of the metal work was pretty crude, but it was a nice ride. I think I started a little earlier than you. All we had was Raleigh, Peugeot, and Schwinn. And a few shops carried some small brands like Chiorda, Flandria, and Dawes. A couple years later we started seeing Mercier, Libertas, Paris Sport, and some others. A local shop could have ordered a Zeus. I should have taken him up on that instead of the International.

Such, such were the joys. Did you used to read the "Nomadics" section of the Whole Earth Catalog, too?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

" I think I started a little earlier than you."

March of 1972, for me. The 210-mile TOSRV tour in May was my baptism by fire. On a Schwinn Continental. After picking up a Peugeot at a rest stop, I had to have that 17 pound advantage!

"All we had was Raleigh, Peugeot, and Schwinn. And a few shops carried some small brands like Chiorda, Flandria, and Dawes. A couple years later we started seeing Mercier, Libertas, Paris Sport, and some others. A local shop could have ordered a Zeus. I should have taken him up on that instead of the International."

Same situation here, but there were some Canadian imports making their way into the area. I remember seeing a Cinelli with Bi-Valent hubs in 1972 or 1973. There were also some very low-production/semi-custom brands around and we could see long-retired racing bikes mysteriously appear at races and rides with little explanation as to how they got here. A local hot shoe had a blue L. Sabliere (sp.?) that was rumoured to have been raced in the Tour de France in the 1960's. It was fillet brazed (no lugs), super light and was beat to snot.

Chiorda...Libertas...Dawes Flandria...yeah, we had all that (mostly) cheap junk. Also some Hetchins, Jack Taylor and oddballs brought in by returning servicemen. We also had a local dealer with an Eastern European heritage. The guy was a racer (and he smoked cigars) that held a few city-to-city records. He imported some good components and frames long before the Gita types got into the game.

Being close to Canada, we did get some of their stuff. They had access to more than what was available here.

I can't remember what year it was when I saw my first Paris Sport (1974?), but it was fire engine red with white block style lettering and it was all Campy. I was in love!

In the 'big cities', 3 to 5 hours away, there were a couple of 'pro' bike shops. I used to ride a Harley to one of them. I remember a ride home from Columbus that normally took 3 hours taking 8 hours due to thick fog, but my bags were full of new pro gear like Detto Pietro shoes, cleats, Clement sew-ups, English wool jerseys, a Cinelli hairnet...let the games begin!

"Such, such were the joys. Did you used to read the "Nomadics" section of the Whole Earth Catalog, too?"

Yeah. Again, I got in on the tail end of the WEC fad. We always had a dog-eared copy laying around the house. Cyclopedia...Yellow Jersey...later on, Branford Bike. Mail order was getting big even back then.

 

[oldbobcat]

We had a local "chapter" of CRC of A (Raleigh) guys where I went to college. They rode Cinellis, as did the ones in New Jersey. They were suspended for racing in South Africa. Slightly old PX-10s and Gitane Tours de France were the most popular bikes among us beginners. I never saw a pro level Paris Sport. Mike Fraysse was the man behind the brand, and he had builder Pepe Limongi in his shop. I think Pepe put his own name on the custom frames and Paris Sport on the ones he made for Fraysse. Detto Pietros were called "Dirty Petes." When they were new, we carried two bottles of water, one to drink and one to pour on our sore feet. My first pair of Sidis (the one with the titanium shank) felt wonderful. My first ride in them was over Smuggler's Notch in a downpour that delayed the race for about an hour. Clement tires were the best. The guys who could afford them trained on 50s and 75s. Most of us trained on whatever was on sale, but on race day we went for Criteriums and Criterium Setas. Later I tried Paris-Roubaix Setas for training--26mm wide with a closed-cell foam strip between the tread and casing--smooth. And all we had for cement was Tubasti. I never rolled one, but I sure wouldn't try that coming down a Colorado canyon at 50 mph. The bikes are better now, but we had more fun back then. Sorry about my format--my browser is eating my paragraph breaks today.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

CRCA 'local' were from NYC or Washington D.C. IIRC. They did more touring than racing...of course, who didn't back then?

I can't remember 'how' my Detto's felt. I do remember what a pain in the ass it was to locate and nail on the short T.A. cleats! I used the horn of a blacksmith style anvil and a carpet tack hammer. After riding in the rain for a couple/three hours the leather soles were as flexible as wet cardboard. And the black dye never stopped leaching out to ruin white socks and turn your feet a purplish-black.

Clement 50's...I may still have a couple of...er...'well aged' ones. I raced on Roubaix setas and the early Clement Criterium setas. The brave and foolish used Pista setas! At somewhere just south of 150 PSI. $7 and $10 no-name training tires from 'somewhere' came from the Yellow Jersey. I bought a batch of the first Panaracers on the market. Those had a nylon casing that got cut/split/ruined in under 50 miles. One rock...ONE rock! That 10-tire bundle might have yielded 1000 miles total. Basically, all the cheap cotton trainers lasted either 25 miles or they went for 300 miles.

We had several tire glues, but Tubasti was the default. The Wolber (Wobbler) glue didn't even 'stick'. I never rolled a tire either, but I do still have some anger issues from the race techie that peeled one of my well-glued tires during inspection. They used a local 'gorilla' with arms the size of my thighs. He wore gloves and had a bunch of us cussing out the race director and mayor of the town before we ran back to the parking lot and everyone was borrowing and passing around a quart can of GM Fas-Tac body trim adhesive and a 1" wide paint brush. We just smeared it on and re-set the tires...never did go back thru tech. Lots of brakes were locking up during that crit due to rim walls being fouled with Fas-Tac!

Remember these?

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat .

I never saw a pro level Paris Sport. Mike Fraysse was the man behind the brand, and he had builder Pepe Limongi in his shop. I think Pepe put his own name on the custom frames and Paris Sport on the ones he made for Fraysse.

I remember Mike Fraysee being an interesting and animated character, I attended a coaching seminar in the 90's at his resort. Not sure if he or it is still around. He steered me from heading off to Belgium after something along the lines of the following conversation: "Have you ever won a bike race here?". I answered no but I did have a couple of 2nds, to which he replied "That's pretty good kid but it just means you were the first to lose". And the final nail in the coffin... "Ya know they don't speak french in Belgium".

 

[Volnix]

Originally Posted by danfoz .


I remember Mike Fraysee being an interesting and animated character, I attended a coaching seminar in the 90's at his resort. Not sure if he or it is still around. He steered me from heading off to Belgium after something along the lines of the following conversation: "Have you ever won a bike race here?". I answered no but I did have a couple of 2nds, to which he replied "That's pretty good kid but it just means you were the first to lose". And the final nail in the coffin... "Ya know they don't speak french in Belgium".

They do speak french in Belgium. They also speak dutch and they also speak some other stuff.

You should go to Belgium. I was there last year and the beer is just unbelievably good.

Even the cheap 50cent bottles are made from caramelized hops.

The expensive 1 euro beers are just beyond good.

I tried one that was so damn weird that I think I should go again and drink a whole crate to analyze it.

The chocolate is not "bad" either... The mint ones are not filled with green goo. They have mint leaves inside. The pear ones are pretty good too... Then are some nice almond ones.

You could also cycle in Brussels or something. There are organized cycle tours in Brussels. Ofcourse with my luck the tour that I booked for was cancelled when I was there but I still did one on my own.

I dont remember what rank I ended up... Actually I remember the first few beers and then it was something like "cycling, chips, more beer, sleep" and a train to holland the next day...

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by Volnix .

They do speak french in Belgium. They also speak dutch and they also speak some other stuff.

You should go to Belgium. I was there last year and the beer is just unbelievably good.

Even the cheap 50cent bottles are made from caramelized hops.

The expensive 1 euro beers are just beyond good.

I tried one that was so damn weird that I think I should go again and drink a whole crate to analyze it.

The chocolate is not "bad" either... The mint ones are not filled with green goo. They have mint leaves inside. The pear ones are pretty good too... Then are some nice almond ones.

You could also cycle in Brussels or something. There are organized cycle tours in Brussels. Ofcourse with my luck the tour that I booked for was cancelled when I was there but I still did one on my own.

I dont remember what rank I ended up... Actually I remember the first few beers and then it was something like "cycling, chips, more beer, sleep" and a train to holland the next day...

I think he may have just been trying to weed me out with the french statement. I do love me some Belgian beer though, any beer really, but the genius that decided to put mayo on french fries deserves a medal. It's both the bane and joy of my existence.

 

[Volnix]

Originally Posted by danfoz .


I think he may have just been trying to weed me out with the french statement. I do love me some Belgian beer though, any beer really, but the genius that decided to put mayo on french fries deserves a medal. It's both the bane and joy of my existence.

They have various chips too... They have these chunky ones, the normal stick ones etc...
...and various sauces in these shops, there is some "Tartar" sauce and some pink-ish one that I dont remember what it was, maybe a ketchup-mayonese thing...




[SIZE= 13px]But I advice to keep away from the flat fried meat though... Its mostly some strong spices so you dont know what you are eating... and I dont think its free range beef... [/SIZE]

(The square stuff on the right)


Supermarkets are cool too...

Its really a very nice place...













...and you can always take a train to Holland... if you "like cycling"

its a very nice place...