Hincapie's broken fork in Paris-Roubaix

[Derk]

Jasper Janssen wrote:

> How on earth are we supposed to know that you don't watch events like this
> live?
Let's take this one step further: suppose there are people who get a video
tape of the race brought by donkey somewhere far away. Must we then avoid
speaking about the event for a month or so? I thought people who have
access to the Internet, and who are really interested, watched the race
live on the Net.

There are plenty of people here who stay up alle night to watch Formula 1
racing when this is being broadcast from another continent. Why wouldn't
this be true for cycling?

Gr, Derk

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 20:07:06 -0400, Sheldon Brown
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Thanks _so_ much for posting that header before the U.S. broadcast.
>
>It certainly enhanced my enjoyment of the broadcast to know in advance
>that Hincapie would not be winning the event...

How on earth are we supposed to know that you don't watch events like this
live?

Jasper

 

[Ronald]

> If tightening the stem caused a small notch in the aluminium steerer
> that would explain the failure.

I guess the stem design with the exposed sides also puts extra strain
on the bottom and top parts of the clamped steerer tube.


"philcycles" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> quoted text:
>
> The photo of Hincapie sitting on the side of the road looks like either
> the stem broke or the steerer broke off at the top, by the upper
> headset
> race. I would have expected the break to be at the fork crown race,
> which would have been much more dangerous for Hincapie so alll things
> considered this failure was not as bad as might have been.
>
> If tightening the stem caused a small notch in the aluminium steerer
> that would explain the failure.
> Phil Brown
>

 

[Lou Holtman]

Derk wrote:
> Jasper Janssen wrote:
>
>
>>How on earth are we supposed to know that you don't watch events like this
>>live?
>
> Let's take this one step further: suppose there are people who get a video
> tape of the race brought by donkey somewhere far away. Must we then avoid
> speaking about the event for a month or so? I thought people who have
> access to the Internet, and who are really interested, watched the race
> live on the Net.
>
> There are plenty of people here who stay up alle night to watch Formula 1
> racing when this is being broadcast from another continent. Why wouldn't
> this be true for cycling?

You are not to blame, Derk. Let's see Sheldon lives in the East isn't
he? Time difference is 6 hours. They finished around 17.00 hour local
time, so that would be around 11.00 o clock in the morning. That's not
in the middle of the night/very early in the morning I would say.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Derk wrote:

>> There are plenty of people here who stay up alle night to watch Formula 1
>> racing when this is being broadcast from another continent. Why wouldn't
>> this be true for cycling?
>
Lou Holtman wrote:
>
> You are not to blame, Derk. Let's see Sheldon lives in the East isn't
> he? Time difference is 6 hours. They finished around 17.00 hour local
> time, so that would be around 11.00 o clock in the morning. That's not
> in the middle of the night/very early in the morning I would say.

Sunday was a beautiful spring day, and I went for a ride. The race was
broadcast at 6:00 in the evening.

I'm not objecting to discussion of the incident immediately on the
newsgroup, even though it is my impression that the majority of the
rearders of r.b.t. are west of the Atlantic.

My objection was to disclosing the _results_ in the _Subject:_ heading.

That was unnecessary and discourteous.

Could have been:

"Broken fork in Paris-Roubaix" or "Mechanical failure in Paris-Roubaix"
but mentioning Hincapie's name in the "Subject:" heading was totally
unnecessary and thoughtless.

This topic was also addressed on several email lists I subscribe to with
"Subject:" headings:

"spoiler - Paris-Roubaix - spoiler - Dang - spoiler",
"Carbon on Cobbles", "Paris-Roubaix", "Paris Roubaix Challenge"

Now, to get to the topic...interesting that it turns out to have been an
alumin(i)um steerer...I'm wondering if maybe it had thinner than usual
walls, and/or if an over-tightened star nut might have caused a stress
riser.

Then again, it's not impossible that Hincapie's earlier crash caused a
crack which then spread. If that was the case, I would have expected
there to be a noticeable difference in the feel of the bars,as the crack
developed because it wouldn't likely have snapped off suddenly with no
warning.

Of course, a racer in a high-adrenealine situation might well ignore a
tell-tale floppyness in the a the bars. After all, look at the
boneheads who risked their lives (and threw away their places) by
playing games with a fast moving train...

Sheldon "Adrenaline Plus Testosterone-A Deadly Combination" Brown
+------------------------------------------------+
| If you don't want your message to get to me, |
| insert **NO-SPAM** into my email address. |
+------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 10 Apr 2006 08:18:48 -0700, "spin156" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I still agree with Tim McTeague. If you were watching the same
>race I was then you must have noticed those guys arms vibrating like
>crazy. Yet, you say that he would have known it was loose long
>before. Sorry, but I disagree completely. Something could break
>completely and you might not notice it until it became serious. On
>smooth roads I would agree, but not under those conditions.

Normal roads (asphalt/concrete/etc) make up 80% of the race. The
stone road sections are about 55K of the race, in sections of 5K or
less I think. So between the first crash and the second he spent time
on normal roads.

JT

****************************
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[[email protected]]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Then again, it's not impossible that Hincapie's earlier crash caused a
> crack which then spread. If that was the case, I would have expected
> there to be a noticeable difference in the feel of the bars,as the crack
> developed because it wouldn't likely have snapped off suddenly with no
> warning.

Maybe he did notice some loose feeling in the bars, and perhaps spoke
on the team radio, but for some reason his support car couldn't deliver
a replacement bike in time? The point is, we don't know all the
details.

> Of course, a racer in a high-adrenealine situation might well ignore a
> tell-tale floppyness in the a the bars. After all, look at the
> boneheads who risked their lives (and threw away their places) by
> playing games with a fast moving train...

Yes, you must mean Boonen's group. They took a risk to duck around
those crossing barriers after the first train had passed. What if
there'd been a second train?!? I can't understand why they weren't
disqualified for the same infraction as the others.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06 (printed
verbatim)-

George Hincapie at Paris-Roubaix

Discovery Channel Pro cyclist George Hincapie crashed twice yesterday in the
famed Paris-Roubaix and was unable to finish. The last crash apparently a
result of the first incident happened when his aluminum steer tube broke at
the intersection with the stem.

"George was in a crash earlier in the day, but due to race conditions and
his comments that everything seemed fine, we did not change to his back up
bike" said Johan Bruyneel, Sports Manager of the Discovery Channel Pro
Cycling Team.

At the time of the second crash, George was commenting to team directors
that he felt looseness in his steering; he thought his head-set may have
come loose as a result of the earlier crash. Team directors were
determining when and how to swap to his replacement bike when George entered
another rough section of cobbles and crashed.

"I believe that the first crash set the stage for the big crash", said
Bruyneel. "Section after section the vibrations just kept coming until the
damaged steerer gave loose. We have been racing and winning on Trek
products for the last seven years. We have the utmost confidence in their
products, from design, to testing, to manufacturing. We have been very
impressed." Bruyneel continued.

"The cobbles do not discriminate", said Julien De Vriese, a forty year
veteran mechanic and the teams Head Mechanic.

Trek is bringing the fork and the bike back to the United States where they
will receive a thorough evaluation.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

 

[G.T.]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
> > Then again, it's not impossible that Hincapie's earlier crash caused a
> > crack which then spread. If that was the case, I would have expected
> > there to be a noticeable difference in the feel of the bars,as the crack
> > developed because it wouldn't likely have snapped off suddenly with no
> > warning.
>
> Maybe he did notice some loose feeling in the bars, and perhaps spoke
> on the team radio, but for some reason his support car couldn't deliver
> a replacement bike in time? The point is, we don't know all the
> details.
>
> > Of course, a racer in a high-adrenealine situation might well ignore a
> > tell-tale floppyness in the a the bars. After all, look at the
> > boneheads who risked their lives (and threw away their places) by
> > playing games with a fast moving train...
>
> Yes, you must mean Boonen's group.

Since he said "and threw away their places" it sounds to me like he's
talking about the Posty, er Disco, group that was DQd.

Greg

 

[spin156]

G.T. wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Sheldon Brown wrote:
> > > Then again, it's not impossible that Hincapie's earlier crash caused a
> > > crack which then spread. If that was the case, I would have expected
> > > there to be a noticeable difference in the feel of the bars,as the crack
> > > developed because it wouldn't likely have snapped off suddenly with no
> > > warning.
> >
> > Maybe he did notice some loose feeling in the bars, and perhaps spoke
> > on the team radio, but for some reason his support car couldn't deliver
> > a replacement bike in time? The point is, we don't know all the
> > details.
> >
> > > Of course, a racer in a high-adrenealine situation might well ignore a
> > > tell-tale floppyness in the a the bars. After all, look at the
> > > boneheads who risked their lives (and threw away their places) by
> > > playing games with a fast moving train...
> >
> > Yes, you must mean Boonen's group.
>
> Since he said "and threw away their places" it sounds to me like he's
> talking about the Posty, er Disco, group that was DQd.
>
> Greg

I just wanted to give my regards to Greg and others who resorted to
name calling and swearing. Those are most impressive traits for
people who think they should be stated seriously. Hey, I made it
quite clear that what I had to say was speculation, but that did not
stop the excoriation. I guess just having an opposing opinion
about something is not an option for many who frequent this forum.
That's pretty sad.

The fact that several of you support the notion that common courtesy is
an option is also a pretty sad commentary about today's world. I
have always found that people who are unwilling to listen to an
alternate opinion are pretty much not worth any credence. I, for
one, will continue to look at all sides and state my opinion.
When I start stating things as absolute fact and proven, and not
consider other's views, please feel free to wail away.

My respects to those who managed to keep their wits about themselves.

Cheers,
Bill

 

[[email protected]]

G.T. wrote:
> <[email protected]> quoted Sheldon
> > > After all, look at the
> > > boneheads who risked their lives (and threw away their places) by
> > > playing games with a fast moving train...
> >
> > Yes, you must mean Boonen's group.
>
> Since he said "and threw away their places" it sounds to me like he's
> talking about the Posty, er Disco, group that was DQd.
>
> Greg

Right, I should have included a smiley face.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > It sounds like they are saying that they anodized Hincapie's fork steerer,
> > and the normal Bontrager Satellite fork is not anodized black. Anyone
> > know if that is the case (Mike J.)? If so, I wonder why they did that.
>
> That's true, and as yet I have no idea what it means or why they would do
> that. The color of anodizing is irrelevant, as far as I know, although some
> types of anodizing are limited in terms of how the appearance can be varied;
> thus, the fact that it's "black" anodizing may tell us something useful, but
> what that something is, I don't know. Yet.
>
> But I do suspect that, for whatever reason, someone decided to use a
> non-stock fork column on George's fork.

Is the stock fork column on a Bontrager Satellite fork steel or
aluminum?

> I sure hope it wasn't in an effort
> to save weight...
>

Why else use an aluminum fork column?

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 10 Apr 2006 08:18:48 -0700, "spin156" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I still agree with Tim McTeague. If you were watching the same
> >race I was then you must have noticed those guys arms vibrating like
> >crazy. Yet, you say that he would have known it was loose long
> >before. Sorry, but I disagree completely. Something could
> >break completely and you might not notice it until it became
> >serious. On smooth roads I would agree, but not under those
> >conditions.
>
> Normal roads (asphalt/concrete/etc) make up 80% of the race. The
> stone road sections are about 55K of the race, in sections of 5K or
> less I think. So between the first crash and the second he spent time
> on normal roads.

Good point. Kilometers of smooth asphalt at times. Nice to see that
not everyone in this thread has taken leave of common sense.

 

[Sally]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06

That's a pretty quick CYA. And without any update or concern about George's
condition.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Sally wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
>
> That's a pretty quick CYA.

That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.

And didn't ya just love Bruyneel's kiss-the-sponsor's-ass statement?

This fork-failure/crash/injury must be really embarrassing to Trek
Corporate.

> And without any update or concern about George's
> condition.

 

[Michael Vang]

My conspiracy theory:

It was a carbon fiber fork and steerer.

If GH won, or even podiumed, imagine the sales. They could push CF
wheels and forks as being "tough enough for Paris Roubaix". I can't
think of any logical reason to anodize an aluminum steerer black. I
think that was just a cover story.

I wonder if the CF wheels somehow contributed to the steerer's failure.
Would the ride be softer with those wheels, or would the cobblestone
vibrations be at a different amplitude or something? (I've never ridden
CF wheels nor cobbles.)

Has anyone found an online video snippet of the accident?

--
Mike (Xyzzy)

 

[Phil Holman]

"Ronald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> If tightening the stem caused a small notch in the aluminium steerer
>> that would explain the failure.
>
> I guess the stem design with the exposed sides also puts extra strain
> on the bottom and top parts of the clamped steerer tube.

No kidding. Eyeballing the hole size I would estimate it doubles the
bearing stress. There were plenty of 200 gram aluminum handle bar
failures several years back, failing at the edge of the stem clamp.

This reminds me of those failures. Rounding off or chamfering the bottom
corner of the stem clamp should help along with a trade in for a stem
with no cutouts.

Phil H

>
>
> "philcycles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> quoted text:
>>
>> The photo of Hincapie sitting on the side of the road looks like
>> either
>> the stem broke or the steerer broke off at the top, by the upper
>> headset
>> race. I would have expected the break to be at the fork crown race,
>> which would have been much more dangerous for Hincapie so alll things
>> considered this failure was not as bad as might have been.
>>
>> If tightening the stem caused a small notch in the aluminium steerer
>> that would explain the failure.
>> Phil Brown
>>
>
>

 

[spin156]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 10 Apr 2006 08:18:48 -0700, "spin156" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >I still agree with Tim McTeague. If you were watching the same
> > >race I was then you must have noticed those guys arms vibrating like
> > >crazy. Yet, you say that he would have known it was loose long
> > >before. Sorry, but I disagree completely. Something could
> > >break completely and you might not notice it until it became
> > >serious. On smooth roads I would agree, but not under those
> > >conditions.
> >
> > Normal roads (asphalt/concrete/etc) make up 80% of the race. The
> > stone road sections are about 55K of the race, in sections of 5K or
> > less I think. So between the first crash and the second he spent time
> > on normal roads.
>
> Good point. Kilometers of smooth asphalt at times. Nice to see that
> not everyone in this thread has taken leave of common sense.

Thank you, Tim.

Oh, and for all of you that are so quick to call me an idiot ......
Did you happen to see the latest press release:

" ..... "George was in a crash earlier in the day, but due to race
conditions and
his comments that everything seemed fine, we did not change to his back
up
bike" said Johan Bruyneel, Sports Manager of the Discovery Channel Pro
Cycling Team.

At the time of the second crash, George was commenting to team
directors
that he felt looseness in his steering; he thought his head-set may
have
come loose as a result of the earlier crash. Team directors were
determining when and how to swap to his replacement bike when George
entered
another rough section of cobbles and crashed.

"I believe that the first crash set the stage for the big crash", said
Bruyneel. ..... "

If you take the time and go back and actually read the posts in this
thread, you will notice that there was one person who, early on in this
thread, speculated that the earlier of the two crashes contributed to
the eventual failure. Yeh, that was me. So, does this mean that
George and Johann are also idiots because they feel the same as I did?

I am certainly guilty of a little gloating here, but my point is
(again) that maybe a little tolerance of differing opinions is not such
a bad idea until all the facts are in. No one, including me, is
right all the time.

- steps off of soap box -

Cheers,
Bill

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> And didn't ya just love Bruyneel's kiss-the-sponsor's-ass statement?

You might try to make a case for that with Bruyneel... maybe... but this
one?

"The cobbles do not discriminate", said Julien De Vriese, a forty year
veteran mechanic and the teams Head Mechanic.

Anyone who knows Julien would know better than to suggest that of something
he said.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Sally wrote:
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
>>
>> That's a pretty quick CYA.
>
> That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.
>
> And didn't ya just love Bruyneel's kiss-the-sponsor's-ass statement?
>
> This fork-failure/crash/injury must be really embarrassing to Trek
> Corporate.
>
>> And without any update or concern about George's
>> condition.
>

 

[G.T.]

spin156 wrote:
> Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 10 Apr 2006 08:18:48 -0700, "spin156" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I still agree with Tim McTeague. If you were watching the same
>>>>race I was then you must have noticed those guys arms vibrating like
>>>>crazy. Yet, you say that he would have known it was loose long
>>>>before. Sorry, but I disagree completely. Something could
>>>>break completely and you might not notice it until it became
>>>>serious. On smooth roads I would agree, but not under those
>>>>conditions.
>>>
>>>Normal roads (asphalt/concrete/etc) make up 80% of the race. The
>>>stone road sections are about 55K of the race, in sections of 5K or
>>>less I think. So between the first crash and the second he spent time
>>>on normal roads.
>>
>>Good point. Kilometers of smooth asphalt at times. Nice to see that
>>not everyone in this thread has taken leave of common sense.
>
>
> Thank you, Tim.
>
> Oh, and for all of you that are so quick to call me an idiot ......
> Did you happen to see the latest press release:
>
> " ..... "George was in a crash earlier in the day, but due to race
> conditions and
> his comments that everything seemed fine, we did not change to his back
> up
> bike" said Johan Bruyneel, Sports Manager of the Discovery Channel Pro
> Cycling Team.
>
> At the time of the second crash, George was commenting to team
> directors
> that he felt looseness in his steering; he thought his head-set may
> have
> come loose as a result of the earlier crash. Team directors were
> determining when and how to swap to his replacement bike when George
> entered
> another rough section of cobbles and crashed.
>
> "I believe that the first crash set the stage for the big crash", said
> Bruyneel. ..... "
>
> If you take the time and go back and actually read the posts in this
> thread, you will notice that there was one person who, early on in this
> thread, speculated that the earlier of the two crashes contributed to
> the eventual failure. Yeh, that was me.

Wooohoo, you're a smart guy. No one else thought about that, you
deserve an award!

Tell us again how a properly tightened top cap would have prevented his
crash?

Greg
--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons